TajMan Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok I had to make a new thread, I have to find this issue. Here is a quote from me the other day: an electrical short makes the headlight relay buzz, and both indicator lights for the turn signals on the gauges to stay on, and makes the headlights not work, etc (when the key is on ACC and the headlight switch is ON) SHORT RELATES TO TRANS MOVEMENT/VEHICLE ROLLING DOWN THE ROAD!!! Liken on/off/on/off/on/off momentarily, faster the faster you move. all gauge needles are also doing crazy things, no gauge illumination, ignition coil wire is randomly losing power so I can't even drive down the road without spark randomly cutting out! Ok so this short is CRAZY and my buddies and I can't figure it out. I figure it has to be a wire crossed between a wire in the headlight circuit, and between a sensor on the transmission or something thats a momentary on/off sensor. But what sensor is like that? The only sensor on my trans thats hooked up is for the reverse lights. This issue does not relate to the engine spinning. With the engine off but the key on ACC, the short goes away and comes back as you roll the vehicle on flat ground! This problem is insane, and it threatens the very continued existence of my Brat, in its current iteration at least. I've spent over a month solid on crazy rust repair and restoration work. My buddy and I converted this '83 Brat from auto to manual with a 4-speed out of an '81 GL wagon. HELP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Sounds like a faulty ground. Check the main ground strap from the trans to the spare tire area. Id also install another ground wire from the engine to the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) I'll check grounds, but it just occurred to me the problem area! I'm sure of it. mechanical speedo cable goes into the back of stock gauge cluster and turns gears when the car moves! My stock gauge cluster is electrically F'd, I was already suspecting issues with electronics in the area... I feel much better now with a direction to go. Edited June 5, 2011 by TajMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What happens to the things you describe having trouble when the ignition switch is in the RUN position and not the ACC mode? Are things working ok then? From what you describe it sounds to me like the trouble may be with the ignition switch area. Before tearing into things I suggest you check voltages getting to the fuses that feed the areas mentioned, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 No, shorts are not related to the ignition switch. They occur when in the run position or the ACC position. When I try to drive down the road, the intermittent short effecting the ignition coil wire causes the engine to randomly lose spark, it won't pull solid and the engine dies sometimes. My gauge cluster is bad. If anything is possibly bad 2nd, it would probably be my headlight switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) hi, i recently found a bad ground on my 84 wagon that had caused several issues but not exactly like yours. anyway, it is one of the main ground wires with a eyelet end. this one is up under the dash not far from the floorboard, you have to loosen the fuse box and the ecm , find the main harness coming from the engine compartment out of the firewall / floorboard , this ground wire was a black heavy gage about 6-7 inches long with an eyelet, it sprouts right off from that main harness and is obveously meant to connect to ground with a screw. mine was completely free and unattached to anything, after putting it securely to a body ground my problems were fixed ! not sure if this is your problem but definately check this particular ground wire because its one of the main ones, and definately has to have a good ground for anything to work right, especially in the instrument and light circuits , that is where my car was having problems. Edited June 5, 2011 by ruparts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) thank you for that advice could you guys tell me what gauge cluster would be compatible with my 83 Brat? Do ANY clusters of that style, even from an EA82 car match the wiring plug? Or does it have to be from an 81-84? local pick-n-pull yard only has two '87 Subarus right now.. I know there were differences produced. My stock cluster was from an auto car (only 1 4WD light). My manual trans now is single-range, so that one only needs one 4WD light. I know later manuals had a 4-hi and 4-lo indicator light on the cluster... Edited June 5, 2011 by TajMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) I think the trouble you are having isn't due to a short. It is a bad connection to power or bad grounding possibly. If you think the trouble can't be with the ignition switch because the engine is dieing you are mistaken. Power to the ignition system is provided through the ignition switch. If you haven't checked and cleaned the battery connections already then do that. Clean the battery to chassis ground connection also. If the trouble still persists after that then verify proper power is getting to the fuses in the dash fuse panel when the trouble happens. If there are some fuses that don't have good voltage getting to them check the fusible link connections and the ignition switch connections. I don't see how a bad cluster could cause the kind of troubles you describe. It may be bad, but it won't cause things like the headlights to fail. Edited June 6, 2011 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I have had a couple flaky alternators on my BRAT, and they do wierd things if the voltage regulator is going out on it. Some things my BRAT would do when it was going out was turn on lights, and the wipers would go on even though the wiper switch was off. Radio stop working then start again. And at times, no starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 I still suspect my gauge cluster, going to the junk yard for one now.. But I also suspect a wire on my ignition switch, you guys reminded me! That could be definitely causing the ignition coil intermittent problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 news: I swapped the gauge cluster with a good '84 146K cluster. Problem still occurring, pretty much the exact same way. While rolling back, short is off - off - off - on - off - off - off - on THEN, unplug the speedo cable from the cluster, and short stays on and is no longer effected by vehicle movement. I think I'm going to return cluster to junk yard for $40 credit. I think I have a short with an illumination wire in the headlight circuit, and so somehow the turning of speedo gears effects this illumination voltage (even though the problem is not occurring INSIDE my gauge cluster). I got to my ignition switch, and the wire I had repaired in the past was still welded and soldered, I don't seem to have an issue there. Ya, when I fixed it previous the electrical contact was so big and wouldn't solder so I welded the wire on and its good. I can't seem to find that main ground wire ruparts was talking about, I didn't see any loose grounds hanging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 swap alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Since removing the speedo cable made a difference in the reaction of things I suggest you try bonding suspected ground problem areas with a temporary ground jumper lead and see how things work then. Tie one end of the jumper to the negative battery post or another known good ground point and the other end to the dash area and other points you suspect may be bad. If things work better, then you know you need to fix the grounding to that area. Make sure the battery to chassis ground is clean. Edited June 7, 2011 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 The ground that ruparts suggested turned out to be the one to fix the problem! I finally found it, there are a thousand wires and my car has a ton of un-used connectors on the wiring harness. Thanks a lot guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Good deal. Thanks for the followup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 it was only able to ground through the speedo cable. wow that will wonk some stuff out! congrats with a banana dance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 The main electrical problem was fixed, but there is still some kind of electrical short in the gauge area that clicks and taps randomly as I drive down the road. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Are you sure it isn't the speedo cable doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 99.9% sure its some sort of electrical short, but not the speedo cable. Except, I can't notice any electrical effect but the noise it makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 until this is sorted out, carry a fire extenguisher in this vehicle. seen too many crash/burn form a pesky mouse chewd wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 and install a main ground disconnect somewhere handy in case it does get out of hand. that way you don't keep heating the same wire. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_21064_21064 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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