thelynns Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Already own a 1986 GL sedan, but wife wants something a little newer and aesthetically pleasing...plus 14yr daughter totally embarrassed when I pick her up from school. We currently have a 99 Windstar van we are replacing, ( I know, but it was extremely cheap). Unfortunately at 86K miles, manifold gasket leaking, air conditioner died and experiencing random electrical problems, interior lights going on and off, various warning lights going on and off without any apparent problems. Looking for a wagon or Forester. Needs to be automatic...neither of us ever learned to drive a stick, plus with a roof rack. Since we are downsizing from van, would need to add a roof top carrier for vacations, etc. I have found some Outbacks locally with 130-140K miles, but have never owned a vehicle with this many miles. My GL actually had around 80K when I bought it. The typically Grandma car, only drove on Sundays to church!!. So, what would you be looking for if you had $5,000 to spend? All opinions wanted and appreciated. Thanks, The Lynns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 EJ25's (2.5 liter) have significant head gaskets issues. Particularly the ones that are probably in that price range (1996-1999). personally i'd buy one with bad headgaskets/motor cheap and have it properly fixed. $1,500 for a car and $3,500 for a new or resealed motor puts you at $5,000 with a new motor. they aren't hard to find like that, i've bought a ton of them. newer subarus (1997 and up EJ22, or 2.2 liter) and all 2.5 liters (EJ25), unlike your old sedan are all interference motors. so if the timing belt breaks the engine will experience bent valves. i'd save aside some money to have a proper timing belt job done on it. at the age/miles you'll be buying yo'ull want all new pulleys, tensioner, and belt. they can also replace any wet seals (cam, crank, oil pump) while the belt is off, easy access at that point. the best bet for reliability is to find a 1995-2001 Legacy wagon with a 2.2 liter engine, much more reliable engine and they end up being cheaper too since they're the lower end vehicles. but they're not as common and not nearly as nice so most folks prefer the nicer models with more options, leather, trim, stereo's, etc. you can get a 2.2 wagon and then upgrade it with nicer wheels, 6 disc in dash changer (plug and play interchange), and more. most of the parts are bolt on stuff so you can swap in other stuff. which would be easy becase a 2.2 liter wagon should be easy to buy in the $3,000 range, leaving you plenty of extra cash for a proper timing belt job and some options if you wanted to add any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I usually buy our car with around 100K on it since many of them become available because of the relatively high cost of a proper timing belt service (belt, tensioner, idlers, AND water pump). I'll have the job done by a shop I trust and I'm good for another 100K. I prefer the EJ22 engine because I don't really need all that much power in a family daily driver (especially if you're replacing an early GL). Also, an EJ22 prior to 1997 would have a non interference engine which is another plus. If you go for a EJ25 engine the SOHC engine has proven more reliable the the DOHC version. We bought a '99 Forester for just that reason over a '98 version. Our Forester was bought three years ago with 105K on it from an independent Subaru shop that had just done the head gaskets and timing belt service. Since that work was already done we paid a premium of $6K for the car. We now have 150K on it. You should be able to find comparable Forester now in the $5K and under range, especially if the timing belt service hasn't been done yet. There's a Forester in the CL forum now for $1800 with some body work needed which could probably be restored and stay under the $5K goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelynns Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 wow, thanks for the quick response. Didn't know that about 2.5 motors. Like your view about buying cheap and having a properly installed new motor. Not too concerned about all interior bells and whistles, just want something that won't be a money pit, plus live in N. Indiana and see road salt from any where between Nov. to March, so min. rust important. Here is a recent ad I saw, play devil's advocate, what would you question and be concerned about? Don't have a lot of money and this would be a significant investment of our funds, so want to make the best decision. I am not a car guy, but do have some reliable friends and family that are. http://www.rocksolidmotors.com/details.php?v_id=114. Thanks again for input. The Lynns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) wow, thanks for the quick response. Didn't know that about 2.5 motors. Like your view about buying cheap and having a properly installed new motor. Not too concerned about all interior bells and whistles, just want something that won't be a money pit, plus live in N. Indiana and see road salt from any where between Nov. to March, so min. rust important. Here is a recent ad I saw, play devil's advocate, what would you question and be concerned about? Don't have a lot of money and this would be a significant investment of our funds, so want to make the best decision. I am not a car guy, but do have some reliable friends and family that are. http://www.rocksolidmotors.com/details.php?v_id=114. Thanks again for input. The Lynns '98 Forester is a DOHC engine. Nothing wrong with that if the rebuild was properly done. But Subaru went to a SOHC engine in '99 for a reason. 248K is a lot of miles on the chassis; as I said earlier, I buy mine around 100k and then sell them off when I get to 250K when they are still running fine. Here's the CL ad from the forum, it's still active but I copied and pasted it since it could be pulled anytime. Too bad it's so far from you; it is certainly a rust free car since it's WA state. Odd that they mention the miles on the rebuilt engine but not the total miles on the car. Pull up the original ad from the CL/ebay forum to see the pics. '99 subaru forester: need gone - $1800 (enumclaw) Date: 2011-06-06, 10:12PM PDT Reply to: sale-7b2cb-2425627985@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?] Front end damage, won't start, engine good but needs to be towed. Selling way under kbb value. Engine was installed new only 65k miles ago and was a dependable car until the fender bender. Single mom needs this money to replace car to get to work so no lowballers. First 1800 (firm) takes it. The engine alone is worth that. As-Is and clean title in hand. Please put in subject line "subie for sale" so i know you aren't a spammer Thanks Edited June 8, 2011 by edrach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Another comment that I didn't think of earlier. You're looking to upgrade and have a current reliable car. TAKE YOUR TIME looking for the RIGHT car. No reason to rush into something NOW. My wife and I looked for over 6 months and 5 or 6 potential Foresters (we were pretty picky) before our current car came on the market. Get a carfax report on any car you are serious about. The right car and good value is out there if you're patient. Good luck and good hunting. Edited June 8, 2011 by edrach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelynns Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks again for advice. We are keeping the 86, my point A to B car for my 3 mile commute to work, but replacing the van that will need work and is getting horrible gas mileage right now. Just found a 1999 Subaru Outback Legacy Limited wagon 113K, but said hood is warped. Why would a car have a warped hood? Does that indicate something? http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/ctd/2425766829.html The Lynns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks again for advice. We are keeping the 86, my point A to B car for my 3 mile commute to work, but replacing the van that will need work and is getting horrible gas mileage right now. Just found a 1999 Subaru Outback Legacy Limited wagon 113K, but said hood is warped. Why would a car have a warped hood? Does that indicate something? http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/ctd/2425766829.html The Lynns The warped hood prolly means that something fell on the hood, or a heavy object was put on the hood, which bent it, and not that it was involved in an accident. The car looks good in the pixs. I have a 99 wagon that is the same exterior color, and I really like my car. As others have pointed out, it is the head gasket weakness that can be a problem with this year car. The car in the pixs looks like it is for sale by a dealer, so sales guy has no past history of this car to know if the head gasket has been replaced. However, a mechanic who knows Subarus will be able to look at the exposed edge corners of the head gasket on the engine, and will be able to tell you if the head gasket is the original or not. If I were you, I would seek out that opinion, if you are interested in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I would look for a vehicle with a 2.2L or a Phase II 2.5L (SOHC) engine (99+ Forester/Impreza/Legacy? or 2000+ Outback). The DOHC version of the engine has internal HG leaks that lets exhaust gases into the cooling system requiring the replacement of the Head Gaskets. The SOHC version generally has external oil/coolant leaks that can be driven while leaking as long as you maintain the oil and coolant levels. Buying one with bad HGs cheap and putting in a rebuilt engine may work for you if you can do the engine R&R yourself or have friends who can do it with you. If you get one with a bad 2.5L engine you can also do a 2.2L swap if you have the right vehicle (95-99?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Why would a car have a warped hood? Does that indicate something? http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/ctd/2425766829.html The Lynns that car has been in an accident of some sort. lines don't line up, bumper gap from left to right is different. but - i like buying cars with small issues. if it was wrecked, the price is usually much lower and not a big deal if it was only cosmetic body panels replaced and nothing structural. you'd want to look it over to see how bad the accident was and how well it was repaired thought. like i mentioned/predicted in my first reply you're looking at all DOHC EJ25's - the worst engine. not a big deal but shop smartly and realize there is a risk. having the head gaskets replaced is not a guarantee...it's a good bet, but still not perfect. i picked up a 58,000 mile legacy last year with a blown block (seized bearings) that had headgaskets replaced by the dealer under warranty at only 30,000 miles. that's not uncommon. not bad engines, but by subaru standards they're probably bottom of the barrel in terms of reliability. i don't even know how many blown DOHC motors i've bought, i can literally find multiple per week for sale with blown motors. you can usually get them really cheap - so that's why i recommend buying one blown and then having it repaired. EJ22's and DOHC EJ25's are directly interchangeable so my favorite move is to buy a blown EJ25 car and install the more reliable EJ22 in it's place. you get all the creature comforts and niceities of the EJ25 vehicles but with EJ22 reliability. lots of information on here if you're interested. do you just want me to build you a car? i'll get an OBW and drop an EJ22 in it for you? i might be traveling to IN in the next week or two funny enough. got a 2003 Legacy for sale, want it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbianchi Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Wow I can't believe nobody suggested this.............................................. pick up your daughter wearing your bath robe and slippers:lol:, she would never be embarrassed by the car again, just a joken or am I?...........G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) the BEST subaru on the road, IMHO, is the 96 L/LS wagon. it has the non-interference engine, lots of room for hauling stuff, roof rack is a plus, and there are lots of them out there and easy to find for a good price. i prefer an auto trans but either is good. the 96 sedan comes in a close second. my favorite subaru on the road, is the 98? - 99? outback sedan. i love the outback look on a sedan. but.... this is not a candidate for a reliable car unless you swap in a 2.2L engine or buy it before it overheats w/ bad head gaskets and repair it. the 96 - 98? LSI or GT comes in a close second, but they need the ej22 as well. i gave my son my 95 lego sedan when he graduated from high school. it had 160k miles and i had just replaced the trans. (i bought it fir $5500 and drove it for 90k miles. the trans died.) he drove it for 5 years and 49k miles. as long as they hold oil they will not die. i just swapped it out for a 98 outback w/ 142k miles and an ej22. find a decent 90s subaru with a non-interference engine, you'll be glad you did!! Edited June 8, 2011 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelynns Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 grossgary, Tell me about your 2003 Legacy. Just read the 2.5 vs 2.2 thread plus saw log on blown hg that someone started. The Lynns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2429373124.html Here's a typical CL ad from today for a '99 Forester. S model, a slight upgrade from standard; features alloy wheels and a nicer interior than the L model. I'm personally in favor of buying from an owner rather than a dealer or shop; private sale normally doesn't know how to "hide" the bad news. Besides, I get to judge the seller and form an opinion as to how he took care of the car he's selling. And I often get a look at the service history of the car which you'll never see in a dealer sale. I consider myself pretty knowledgeble, but I'll still spend $100 to have a trusted shop check out the car I select prior to buying it. Edited June 9, 2011 by edrach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 my personal choice would be 90-96 non-interference 2.2 AWD Legacy/Outback wagon - about the most reliable of the bunch and with no chance of internal damage if a T-belt does go south. trans - i would prefer the 5 speed myself - slightly better fuel mileage - but the 4EAT is a good trans (my current car has one & I cant drive a manual right now, had surgery on clutch foot) but that is my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The area where the poster is looking isn't exactly a subaru haven, They just aren't as common in northern indiana. Rust will be a big problem with a 90's subie out there. Options are very limited. I know, was looking for a 2.2 subie in that area for my parents a month ago. Still, I would look for a 2.2l legacy, and scour it for rust issues. Also if you are new to full time AWD look up torque bind and watch for that. Dont be afraid of one that has 150-200k miles or more, mileage doesnt seem to kill those cars. Put more emphasis on how it has been taken care of, rust, and if it drives fine. If you have the option buy a plane ticket to a western area favorable to subarus (Denver, Eugene/Portland, Seattle, etc) and spend a week looking at what is available out there and drive one back. Will give you more selection and less rust issues. Take the trip money out of the cost of the car and you can find a very nice 2.2 for 4k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Come to Washington and drive it home. Here's a sample of what's available out here: http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/2433760208.html I live close enough to check it out, if you have interest in something like this. Edited June 11, 2011 by edrach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I agree 90-96 legacy subarus are the best with ej22e motor. even the 90-94 seem better built, better fit and finish, materials than the 95 and up. 95 legacy is a good choice as it has OBD2 functin, but at the same time, is not subject to emissions permits(at least here in wisconsin) I am native to northern indiana, and i know how scarce the soobs can be. Dont be afraid of the mileage, ans a higher mile car reflects the amount of maintenance it has had to last that long. Junkers in the yard have lower miles. Something with over 200,000 miles MUST have had a timing belt or other major service to still be rnning. A properly maintaned soob can lase well over 300,000 miles, and make the 200,000 mile mark on their original timing belts and water pumps. Good luck with the soob search. You may find them more common in ohio or michigan. I used to co to columbus to hit the junkyards for 80's subarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 no offense to the folks who live in wisconsin, but if you are going to buy one from afar, i would head south and east, not north and west. but regardless, as long as it is a ''no rust'' car you should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 no offense to the folks who live in wisconsin, but if you are going to buy one from afar, i would head south and east, not north and west. "east"? rust can be terrible here too. you can have cars shipped, i had one shipped from the west coast last year for $600. you're expanding your options so it's not hard to find a good deal that makes up for the cost of shipping. most folks don't want to put forth that effort though either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Geographically you can go south and east to dodge rust, but the fact is more of them were sold and they were imported from the west coast and therefore an abundance of them to pick and chose from. Logistically south and east would be easier, given the selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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