el_freddo Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 G'day I'm after the part number for a bearing kit that will fit the L series DR AWD gearbox. We didn't get these boxes over here from factory so I can't get a kit number from VINs. If some one could supply me with a kit number that would be greatly appreciated. Regards Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Subaru doesn't have bearing "kits" for their transmissions. You have to order each one seperately. I sugest you open it up and find out which one's you really need because unless you are planning on spending up around $1000 US for bearings and syncro's.... it's cost prohibitive to buy everything. Typically there are only one or two that go bad and/or are destroyed when pressing them off the shaft. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks DG. I'm after a kit as I'm building a box that I want to not touch for a long time - so new bearings throughout it is - If I can get a kit. Unfortunately I don't have the time or the space to pull it apart and go through individual bearing numbers. And I thought kits were readily available... I think I need to do a trip to a mate's subaru dealership to photo copy some of the parts book if I can. Only issue with that is it is an 8 hour round trip from where I am now Thanks anyway. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I hope you have a thick wallet. As GD said, those bearings are NOT cheap. When I did the input shaft seal on my 4 speed I considered replacing the front bearing. Until the dealer told me it was more than $300:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I'm after a kit as I'm building a box that I want to not touch for a long time - so new bearings throughout it is - If I can get a kit. No one makes a kit so you are out of luck there. As I said most of the bearings will NEVER fail so it's cost prohibitive and senseless to replace them. The main shaft bearings are the only failures you will see and on them it's pretty much just the rear's. All the tiny needle bearings and such are not in danger of failure - these transmissions will go a quarter million miles and have one rear shaft bearing fail - after replacement they will go another quarter million and then the same one will fail again. That's the nature of the beast. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycho Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I am building up a D/R trans and associated rear differential and was able to find Timken parts for most of the main bearings/seals. It was not that expensive, tho I did not get all of them. I have four new diff bearings (for two new diffs) and three others which I believe are the input shaft bearing, tailshaft bearing, and outer input shaft bearing for the rear pinion gear. I'll make a list of part numbers as I go through the trans (and note the bearings I neglected to get). This project is just getting underway after months of accumulating parts. I'm not doing any of the shaft bearings or synchros. The trans has only 115,000 miles on it and shifts very smoothly still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 No one makes a kit so you are out of luck there. As I said most of the bearings will NEVER fail so it's cost prohibitive and senseless to replace them. That's the nature of the beast. Thanks GD - but the way it goes out here on the other side of the puddle is that the L series DR AWD gearbox wasn't delivered to our shores, which means that they're hard to get to start with. I'm lucky to have found the one I'm sitting on let alone have it in my shed. The way I see it is that bearings are easier to replace than a destroyed gearbox that I've already struggled to have in my possession. Its a bit like insurance for a good, long lasting gearbox... I'll make a list of part numbers as I go through the trans (and note the bearings I neglected to get). This project is just getting underway after months of accumulating parts. I'm not doing any of the shaft bearings or synchros. The trans has only 115,000 miles on it and shifts very smoothly still. Thank Tycho, that would be great. I'm not doing syncros - just going to rough them up before re-assembly. When you say shaft bearings do you mean the little needle bearings or the main bearings that hold the shaft in the casings? Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) The way I see it is that bearings are easier to replace than a destroyed gearbox that I've already struggled to have in my possession. Its a bit like insurance for a good, long lasting gearbox... It never really happens that way - you can replace all the bearings and it will still be the one's that take the brunt of the force that fail first. And a bearing failure is highly unlikely to "destroy" the transmission. Just means you have to replace another bearing. I've rebuilt a lot of machines - one thing that experience has shown is that certain weak points will fail over and over again while the rest of the system stays relatively untouched by time and wear. Subaru transmissions are such an animal - gear oil is very good at suspending particulates (bearing cage material, etc) and keeping it from harming other parts of the system. It's your wallet, but a careful inspection of the bearings in the transmission as well as a mind toward the forces involved in pressing them off shafts, etc will tell you what needs to be replaced and what will likely last till the next ice-age. That's my advice - I have successfully built Subaru transmissions along with countless other types of machines and there's a line between being cautious and just plain silly when it comes to replacing things like gear-box bearings. Most of them do not need to be replaced and wouldn't even if you ran it another million miles. On the other hand - from a cost perspective, and especially since you seem determined to replace all the bearings which will result in all the shafts being torn completely down..... it would be mind-numbingly stupid not to replace all the syncro's. Those are only around $150 to $200 - orders of magnitude cheaper than the bearings and yet they ARE wear items and you will not get the same fantastic results from "roughing them up" as you will from new one's. You aren't going to "rough them up" in the way they need to be roughed up and you can't replace material that is gone. They are wear items and cannot be repaired. GD Edited June 23, 2011 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 It never really happens that way - you can replace all the bearings and it will still be the one's that take the brunt of the force that fail first. And a bearing failure is highly unlikely to "destroy" the transmission. Just means you have to replace another bearing. I've rebuilt a lot of machines - one thing that experience has shown is that certain weak points will fail over and over again while the rest of the system stays relatively untouched by time and wear. Subaru transmissions are such an animal - gear oil is very good at suspending particulates (bearing cage material, etc) and keeping it from harming other parts of the system. It's your wallet, but a careful inspection of the bearings in the transmission as well as a mind toward the forces involved in pressing them off shafts, etc will tell you what needs to be replaced and what will likely last till the next ice-age. That's my advice - I have successfully built Subaru transmissions along with countless other types of machines and there's a line between being cautious and just plain silly when it comes to replacing things like gear-box bearings. Most of them do not need to be replaced and wouldn't even if you ran it another million miles. On the other hand - from a cost perspective, and especially since you seem determined to replace all the bearings which will result in all the shafts being torn completely down..... it would be mind-numbingly stupid not to replace all the syncro's. Those are only around $150 to $200 - orders of magnitude cheaper than the bearings and yet they ARE wear items and you will not get the same fantastic results from "roughing them up" as you will from new one's. You aren't going to "rough them up" in the way they need to be roughed up and you can't replace material that is gone. They are wear items and cannot be repaired. GD Thanks GD. That certainly puts my mind at ease about the bearings with what you say in the above quote in regards to your experiences with many gearbox builds. For the Subaru gearboxes, which areas are the weakest for these boxes and is there anything I can do to help strengthen/increase longevity? Thanks again for your input, much appreciated! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Open it up and take a look around. What I almost always end up replacing is the rear input shaft bearing, and if I'm doing syncro's then that typically means all the primary shaft bearings (bearings that support the shaft and center it in the transmission case). There's 4 of them on an AWD single range transmission but there's 6 IIRC on the dual-range transmissions because the input shaft is split into two sections. So I would replace those 6 primary shaft bearings and then all the syncro's, and all the seals. Be aware that the seals for the front diff stubs are different for left vs. right as they are built for the shafts to turn in opposite directions. Don't bother ordering gaskets - just get yourself a big tube of Loctite 518 or Permatex Anearobic gasket maker. It's a flange sealant product that suits the aluminium mating flanges of the Subaru transaxles very well. You will need access to a press and bearing splitter to dissasemble and reassemble the transmission shafts. It is ABSOLUTELY neccesary for doing the job correctly. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idasho Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Does the AWD gearbox have the same retarded input shaft seal as the old 4speed? You know....the one that requires a complete tear-down of the trans to get to it If so, dont forget to replace that seal:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Open it up and take a look around. What I almost always end up replacing is the rear input shaft bearing, and if I'm doing syncro's then that typically means all the primary shaft bearings (bearings that support the shaft and center it in the transmission case). There's 4 of them on an AWD single range transmission but there's 6 IIRC on the dual-range transmissions because the input shaft is split into two sections. So I would replace those 6 primary shaft bearings and then all the syncro's, and all the seals. Be aware that the seals for the front diff stubs are different for left vs. right as they are built for the shafts to turn in opposite directions. Don't bother ordering gaskets - just get yourself a big tube of Loctite 518 or Permatex Anearobic gasket maker. It's a flange sealant product that suits the aluminium mating flanges of the Subaru transaxles very well. You will need access to a press and bearing splitter to dissasemble and reassemble the transmission shafts. It is ABSOLUTELY neccesary for doing the job correctly. Thanks GD. This will be my third gearbox I've played with. The first was a case swap to bolt my L series gearbox behind the EJ without an adaptor plate - I didn't bother with new bearings etc as the standard boxes are dime a dozen for a replacement if needed. The second was a gearset swap in a liberty - chipped 1st gear. Third will be this box - although I'm going to get a fella to assemble it for me as I've got no idea/patience to do the pre-loads etc plus I need a few "trick" parts such as a modified low range selector fork to fit the L series low range, and have the crown wheel shaved so it doesn't interfere with the low range gearing. I'll also have an oiling system built into the casing that will pump oil over the low range gearsets on those long hill climbs. I'm also aware of the diff output shaft seals being designed for a specific side each. Idasho, the input shaft seal is the same as the 4 speeds - complete gearbox tear down... Thanks again fellas. I'm hoping to have this gearbox installed in november, we'll see how it goes. I'm also hoping to be there when all the parts come together for this "bitsa" box to get some pics of it all the good bits. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Don't just rough up the syncro's bead blast the brass cones and tape up the gears leaving only the syncro section exposed and bead blast that. This technique works perfectly to give as new syncro's unless the fine teeth are damaged,and in many cases they can be dressed up with a good file and a dremel if need be ,this method works in a number of rally cars and has proven effective and long lasting. NSK supply all original Subaru bearings and even the CV's so a good bearing supply will be able to help with gearbox bearings. As everyone else says use genuine seals as they often are specials with extra sealing lips.If you have wear on a shaft for instance you can carefully remove the spring from the seal it can then be undone as they have two ends twisted together to form a circular spring with one end tapered in a cone form that screws into the other end . This squared off end can be shortened by 2~3mm to increase spring tension to allow for wear marks say on a propshaft for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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