bigjimd Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 One more question and I will be quiet for a while I promise. There was a post a while back about the lifter bucket height being goofy. The Op talked about using washers as shims someone suggested dimes as he was having a hard time getting even rebuilt HLA's to shut up. I know next to nothing about setting these motors up and am wondering if I will have an issue with continued TOD upon reassembly with freshly rebuilt HLA's myself due to these bucket heights. These pics are of the right side both inboard ones are flush the outboard ones are raised at least a 1/16th or more and the left ones just all vary. Looking at the bottom where the lifter rides It looks a bit worn. Again thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 hi, i think these are not buckets but sleeves, what forms the bottom of the lifter hole is actually the head itself, and that is a machined hole then the sleeve is pressed in . if the oil passage holes in the sleeve is in alignment with the head oil passage to allow adequite oil to pass through the lifter it should be ok. you may damage it if you try and drive it in further , if you have to try use a wood or plastic block to sit squarely on the sleeve and hit on that , do not try and hit the edge of the sleeve itself with a hammer. as far as the continuing tick, there might be some debris in the cam case oil passage. the one oil passage between the cam and the oil restrictor plug , is a trap for stuff, i have found bits of silicone in there several times , and all of those had a permanent tick or an intermittant tick. its the roach motel of debris , it goes in but can't get out. bad part is you have to remove the cam case , and take the cam out of it to access this passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Thanks for the info. I saw that it was a sleeve but thought I had read of it being called a bucket. I do have the carriers and cam off so I will check to make sure that everything is spotless before reassembly. I can see some wear at the base of the bore. Do you think there may be enough wear that I need to worry about shiming the HLA? Y'all are making me paranoid about filtrarion with this motor I'm liable to wind up with a pair of external filters when all's said and done. I do not want to hear the TOD again!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Thanks for the info. I saw that it was a sleeve but thought I had read of it being called a bucket. I do have the carriers and cam off so I will check to make sure that everything is spotless before reassembly. I can see some wear at the base of the bore. Do you think there may be enough wear that I need to worry about shiming the HLA? Y'all are making me paranoid about filtrarion with this motor I'm liable to wind up with a pair of external filters when all's said and done. I do not want to hear the TOD again!!!!! Hey, Bucket, lifter, tappet, hydraulic lash adjuster. On an EA-82, the name Subaru gave them is very descriptive. Lash adjuster. So no wonder folks get confused. What you see with the sleeves are normal. They don't all sit flush with the deck. As long as the oil passage is clear, that's all that matters. If you want to be through, pull the oil pan and the oil pickup tube and put on a new o ring. If the oil pump is sucking air the tick may never be totally gone. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks for the tip. Hadn't seen that in all my searching. I will do that while the motor is on the stand. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Yea. It's just that the oil strainer and that o ring is the beginning of the lubrication system. The lifters:) are the end of the line and recieve oil last via the cam case. I pumped these new lifters up today by holding my finger over one of the two marked holes between the lifters. I put the tip of a thumb pump oil can in the other and blead them all in about one minute. Really. I didn't know that before today. I saw the air being pushed out of them, then the oil flows out those marked drains above them and flows over the valve/spring/guides. The other end of those drains are in the bottom of the lifter bore, so you don't want to push those sleeves in too far. Doug Edited June 24, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Cool, so I do this before I put the cam and carriers back together and they will stay primed till I get the motor back in the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) So just to clarify y'all. I'm gonna do the following. 1. Replace the o-ring on the oil pickup. 2. Reseal and o-ring the oil pump (second time in a few months). 3. Have had Mizpah rebuild the HLA's 4. Replace the o-rings between the cam carrier and head with fat ac type o-rings (my local guru's tip) 5. Prime the HLA's prior to assembly. 6. Replace front crank seal. 7. Replace cam holder o-rings (behind pully) 8. New valve cover gaskets. 9. Mani gaskets. 10. New PVC valve. 11. Clean PCV hoses. 12. Leave rear main alone unless leaking (haven't pulled off stand to change flywheel yet) so haven't seen it yet. I have one if needed. 13. Turn flywheel to clean a bit of rust off. 14. New clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. 15. Bye Bye 3at. 16. Swap oil pressure sender out so new gauge cluster will work. (auto unit so lights will be right). 17. New heater hose's. 18. New tstat. 19. Radiator was new a year ago when we first put her on the road and new rad hoses at same time. 20. Half shafts replaced a year ago as well. Cruise and sunroof toooo. Thank's Don! Am I missing anything?? Thanks a million, y'all rock!!!! Jim Edited June 26, 2011 by bigjimd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 hi, do not forget to carefully check that 2 inches of oil passage in the cam case, it is the passage between the cam journal and that brass oil restrictor. oil is fed from the cam journal towards the head and through that restrictor,, stuff can get to the restriction and gets trapped in the passage , sometimes partially blocking oil flow to the hla's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Cool, so I do this before I put the cam and carriers back together and they will stay primed till I get the motor back in the car? I don't see why not. BTW. The "sleeves" are actually called bushings and are very much like the connecting rod bushings except larger in diameter. Shawn W. here has expressed reservations about the oil strainer before...whether to pull it or not. It sticks in there pretty good but Map gas to expand the block will break that bond. Edit: The next one I pull will be done with a tool to pull it. I'm thinking something that fits it like a pickle tool, or like a trim panel puller. Edit: The cam case o rings need to be reinforced type because nothing else will do. Just like that passage through the head gasket. It's called:Ishino Cam Housing O-Ring. Change the rear seal if any oil is getting past it. Clutches and oil still don't mix. Old seals get hard, as GD has pointed out. That accelerates the wear to the shaft. They cut a V in it. Edit: Look herehttp://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=122966for info about the crank seals. Edited June 29, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Once again great info. Thanks for all the help. Was at dealership yesterda ordering paqrts, I will call back and get those ® o-rings. Was hoping for something better as even the ® type don't seem to last all that long. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobie_newbie67 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 yeah, i was the one who brought this up the first time. your pics are exactly what it looked like. i used a filed down washer to space the lifter, but GD's idea of using dimes definitally would have worked better if i had thought of that earlier. the clacking finally stopped after about 500 miles of driving after spacing the lifter; it probably finally adjusted the rest of the way. good luck to you coming up with a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Once again great info. Thanks for all the help. Was at dealership yesterda ordering paqrts, I will call back and get those ® o-rings. Was hoping for something better as even the ® type don't seem to last all that long.Jim Well, I'm working on a Hot Rod. What I did and am going to try is a simple dead soft copper o-ring. I got some used ones from banjo bolt fittings that are perfict fit. It's a shame really, that Subaru owners are forced to pay high dealer prices, and order each little freaking part piece by piece. I support Subaru ebay dealers that put together kits of common parts with clear pictures, descriptions, and price. I need a half dozen of those r orings to have on hand. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Edited June 29, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Well, I'm working on a Hot Rod. What I did and am going to try is a simple dead soft copper o-ring. I got some used ones from banjo bolt fittings that are perfict fit. It's a shame really, that Subaru owners are forced to pay high dealer prices, and order each little freaking part piece by piece. I support Subaru ebay dealers that put together kits of common parts with clear pictures, descriptions, and price. I need a half dozen of those r orings to have on hand. Doug Think about heating em with a torch to cherry red and let em air cool. We did to the head gaskets when we put the mud bog motor back together. It was supposed to soften the copper and help em seal. That was an aluminum block and o-ring aluminum heads type motor. 590 ci 14-71 blown alcohol burner. We reused the gaskets often. We never had a problem with combustion chamber sealing. I mentioned the ac o-rings as my local guru showed em to me. I watched him pull em out of a cam carrier and they still looked perfect and the motor had been run for a lot of miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 yeah, i was the one who brought this up the first time. your pics are exactly what it looked like. i used a filed down washer to space the lifter, but GD's idea of using dimes definitally would have worked better if i had thought of that earlier. the clacking finally stopped after about 500 miles of driving after spacing the lifter; it probably finally adjusted the rest of the way. good luck to you coming up with a solution. Q thanks yeah bushing makes more sense as they are a tube. S-N did you go back together with new or rebuilt HLA's? Mine are fresh from Mizpah so they should operate correctly. As another poster taught me as long as the oil passage is open I should be ok if the cam, and rockers aren't worn. I worry about the wear in the bottom of the bore. If that's to much then I would have to shim? I sure don't have specs for that or a way to measure. I think I'm doing my standard over thinking and should just put the thing back together. I just really don't want to dissapoint my baby girl and have this thing clack again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Will do on the copper rings. The bottom of that bore isn't totally finished out on a new head. However, a new lash adjuster in a new head sticks to the bottom of the bore when you go to pull it out. Two of the eight lash adjusters I primed the other day blead down. I opened them up and the first had a piece of junk in it at the check ball and spring in the very bottom. I can see where a through cleaning along with the two new springs may get you like new performance out of them. I got that set of eight for $80.00 and change shipped. The best deal I know of on new ones right now is $16.00 and change each, plus whatever shipping. Rock Auto, Beck/Arnley wholesale closeout. Just like the ones in the picture below. Doug Edited June 30, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) This is a 2nd Gen head and that motor would rev clean to 7200 rpm under load. The LA bushings gradually creep up until they hit that ring on the outside of the HLA, that's as far as they can go. If you have some that look like the one on the left, I don't think it will be a problem. I never ever heard a peep out of the HLAs in it. 7 out of 12 I just looked at were like that one on the left. I'd say they drill/bore for depth and let it fall where it may otherwise. There is actually more contact area then what shows in that pic tho. Edited June 30, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Doug, The ® type o-rings you pictured above, are they the factory replacement items? Don't want to order and have something else show up. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'm not for certain that Ishino makes them for Subaru but that's what it looks like to me. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Hey, I've replaced the Subaru oil pan drain plug in every EA-82 I've run with a magnetic plug. It's something that should have been done at the factory. So people don't have to fear the unknown about HLA, I broke this one down all the way. A dental pick makes removing and installing that bottom plunger/cap/spring/ball bearing a snap. Without depressing the ball bearing and spring, it can be a chore to remove/install. That little spring is a magnet and you can see it stick to the cup in the picture. Metal that gets past the ball bearing hopefully stays there. That bottom chamber is the most important part of these Hydraulic Lash Adjusters, and it where it all happens. Junk that gets past the ball bearing, and or disrupts the seating of the ball bearing is the problem. With old lash adjusters, the springs probably come into play. As it's just springs and after so long, they don't have the tension to work like they did when new. Doug Edited June 30, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Stopped by the NAPA store on the way home. Couldn't find the ® o-ring as you showed in the picture however they did offer other AC o-rings that looked similar. Will take one of the old ones by tomorrow and see what I can come up with. Thanks again Doug for all the pics. I hope all this info helps others. I know all y'all have helped me figure this issue out. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 hi, in case you want to get the actual subaru ones, part# 13089AA010 , they may have to order them but usually easy to get , about 2.60 retail each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 RP, Great! Are these the reinforced type. The O-Ring's that came out are smooshed flat and out of shape. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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