Junkyard EJ22: checking condition before transplant?

[jarl]

Hello people...

 

I started a thread before on the transplants section (here), and I got some comforting answers by some great people. Now my questions are more engine-oriented, so this may be the right place to ask them.

 

The short story is that I bought a '99 OBW needing an engine, and I bought a salvage EJ22 with 90k miles that -as I learned after getting it home- had been probably sitting for 5 years or so. According to the VIN it came from a '95 Impreza that was involved in a front-right collision... in 2006. The guy at the salvage yard where I bought it said it was "tested before removing it", but I don't expect that to mean much.

 

My main concerns have to do with the kind of damage that sitting for that long would produce. The engine turns smoothly, and tonight I removed one of the engine covers and was greeted by the nice sight of no rust/crap whatsoever. The inside of the cover is just golden in color, with no caked or burned oil (= no abuse/forgotten oil changes). One of the camshaft lobes seems to have a slight scratch, but it's not clear for me how that would happen with roller cam followers.

 

The not-so-good: when turning the engine by hand, it's evident the resistance from the compression is not the same in all the cylinders. Where #1 produces a loud noise when the exhaust valves open, #2 and #4 produce a softer one and #3 doesn't produce much noise at all. Given the story of the engine, can I assume the difference in performance is due to stuck rings (and that re-ringing would be the solution)?

 

Is there any way to get enough information about the health of the engine (i.e. bearings) without tearing it apart? Should I be worried about this at all (given what I saw under the valve cover)?

 

Thanks!

[GeneralDisorder]

Run it. It will be fine. Given what you describe under the valve cover.... you have a very nice example of a low mileage EJ22. I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. The difference you are feeling in compression has likely everything to do with how much the lifters have bled down and the orientation the engine was stored in and where the oil was/was not. Squirt some MMO in the cylinders and fire it up.

 

Rings are not an issue with Subaru engines. It just doesn't happen.

 

You are overthinking this - just run it.

 

GD

Edited June 26, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[lmdew]

Yep, expect some lifter noise as it can take days for them to pump back up sometime. I run 5-30W and they have always pumped back up for me.

 

If it's a car you are keeping long term it's nice to to the routine maintenace while it's out.

- Re seal the breather cover on the back of the engine

- Valve cover Seals

- timing belt, cam and crank seals

- Oil Pump Screws and oring

- plugs

 

Then drop it in and you are good for 80K.

 

I've also dropped them in with just doing the rear breather and made sure it runs well. All the other stuff can be done while the engine is in the car.

 

Your call.

[johnceggleston]

run it.

 

it will likely make noise when first run.

you will think you have made a terrible mistake. but it will quiet down and be ok.

 

i let mine just idle in the drive way, all afternoon. some other folks suggest taking it for a ''spirited'' drive. that scares me , but in time it will quiet down slowly over time, not suddenly.

[MilesFox]

I agree, Run it with some seafoam or marvel's in the oil, and then change to fresh 10w 30.

 

Dont be afraid to warm it up and rev it out.

 

Do be conscious of bleeding the cooling system, as the thermostat is on the bottom, and air pockets are a bit tricky with these subarus. Fill the block from the upper hose, then fill the rad. Run the heat. You should get good hot heat. If not, add more coolant, burp more bubbles.

 

I suggest reading about burping, as this is the only thing you will have to worry about with installing the engine.

[jarl]

Uhmm... I had totally forgot these engines came with HLAs, and that those may actually drain and stop behaving correctly On my defense, those HLAs are so ridiculously small in this engine I totally missed them.

 

I'll try to put together the list of stuff to order. So far in my list:

- Timing kit w/ water pump (ebay)

- Cam seals (?)

- Valve cover gaskets (?)

- Oil pump seal(s) (?)

- Spark plugs (autozone or something) and cables (?)

- [added] Intake and exhaust manifold gaskets (?)

 

Anything else? I remember reading not to touch the rear main seal unless it really needs to be replaced, so I'll leave it alone.

 

Besides this, the car needs both interior axle boots replaced. Is there any replacement boot with*really* good reputation?

Edited June 27, 2011 by jarl

[heartless]

spark plugs and wires - NGK all the way.

 

for your gaskets - i (the other half) got a complete gasket set from ebay - had everything I needed and then some - they seem to work fine - just did a reseal/timing belt job on my 90 Legacy 2.2 like 3 weeks ago (212,500 and counting).

Oh, you will want to pick up a tube of ultra-grey too, for doing that oil separator plate on the back, and it can also be used on the oil pan (no gasket)

[johnceggleston]

a search found this. not all will apply but good info none the less.

 

 

it depends on what engine you use. if you use a 95 legacy auto trans car engine it will have everything you need.

 

use your existing flex plate that matches your trans,

use your existing AC bracket - the 95 bracket is slightly different?

use your existing power steering lines (unless you have the lines from the 2.2Lcar.)

DO NOT disconnect the lines from the AC compressor during removal, remove the conpressor from the bracket and ''flop'' it out of the way during the removal and install. (flop it back where it belongs when you are not actually pulling the engine. no reason to over stress the lines any more than you have to.)

 

if you do not yet have a haynes manual please get one. they are not perfect and you should probably confirm specific torque specs, but they will answer many questions faster than going online and will give the newcomer some subaru how to general automotive knowledge. and getting grease on it in your garage is ok, the computer, not so much.

 

if you use another engine, not a 95 auto, you will need different things.

96 - 98 will require the exhaust y-pipe.

a manual trans will require the auto trans intake and modifications to the driver side head in order to get the EGR to work. you do not want to go through this.

 

link to 1997 FSM:. . http://www.main.experiencetherave.co...97_Legacy_FSM/

 

basically you want to replace anything that is leaking, which includes:

cam seals - 2 ea.

cam cap o-rings - 2 ea.

front crank seal - 1 ea.

oil pump o-ring - 1 ea. (check / tighten the bolts on the backing plate on the back side of the pump.)

oil separator plate - 1 ea. w/ 5 screws. (on the rear of the engine)

valve cover gaskets - 2 ea.

exhaust gaskets - 2 ea.

spark plugs - 4 ea.

plug wires - 1 set (4 ea.)

 

 

all timing components

timing belt - 1 ea.

idlers, smooth - 2 ea.

idler, toothed - 1 ea.

tensioner - 1 ea. (either just the idler assembly or the whole thing depending on whether yours is the old style, 2 piece, or the new style, one piece.)

 

i would get the stuff in red from a SUBARU dealer online.

i would get the timing belt kit from ''theimportexperts'' on ebay, search ''subaru timing kit''.

 

you will also need RTV ultra gray or anaerobic sealant to reseal the oil pump and the oil separator plate on the rear.

 

motor oil - 4.5 qts ?

coolant - 6.5 qts. ?

AT fluid for the power steering - 1 qt ? (and i would do a drain and fill on the trans if it is an auto, if the fluid is dark and dirty, i would do a drain and fill 3 times with driving around the block in between, about 4 qts.for each)

 

DO NOT replace the rear main seal unless it is really leaking, they usually don't leak until someone has replaced it. usually it is not leaking, the oil sep plate is, DO NOT mess with it if you do not have to.

 

and if you do not do the oil pump and rear oil sep plate you will regret both.

 

 

online parts :

 

www.subarugenuineparts.com

 

www.subarupartsforyou.com

tagline, ej22swapinfo, ej25swapinfo, reseallist, swapinfo Edited June 27, 2011 by johnceggleston

[jarl]

Thank you people! It looks like it covers everything

 

I'm still trying to make my mind around the ultra-grey (isn't ultra-black better?) vs anaerobic. Is the anaerobic (50 ml) enough for oil pan, water pump and oil separator plate? Doesn't it require the surfaces to be in *very* good condition?

 

John, that was the post I've read where it said not to touch the rear seal, but I misplaced it

 

@Heartless: do you remember the name of the ebay seller you bought your kit from? Was it theimportexperts?

[Ricearu]

also, if your oil seperator plate is plastic, replace it for a steel or aluminum one from the dealer. the plastic one will warp. period.

[GeneralDisorder]

The anaerobic is good to fill gaps of up to .050"..... which is a LOT.

 

I use it almost everywhere RTV is called for without any issues. I don't use water pump gaskets on hardly anything anymore.

 

50 ml might do it..... I buy the caulking gun tubes myself.

 

GD

[renob123]

MilesFox, your PM box is full:banana:

 

OP: What all these other people said.

 

Jacob

[jarl]

Uhm... those [explicit] exhaust bolts are going nowhere.

 

The exhaust gaskets (and I guess the manifolds as well) were badly rusted, so now there's a nice rusty mess where the new exhaust gaskets will go. The rust is also holding the bolts (some of them broken) firmly in place. I have applied loads of PB blaster and hit some of them with an impact screwdriver (after slotting them with my Dremel)... until I broke the tip of the screwdriver.

 

Any idea of how I can improve my chances of getting those out without ruining the heads? I'm thinking of dissolving the rust (evaporust) and applying CRC Freeze-Off and/or just heating the whole thing out with a plumber's propane torch. The torch is very tempting, but I wonder if I may damage the aluminum/something in the process. The least attractive option is drilling and risking damaging the threads.

 

Ideas?

[ocei77]

Heat and vise grips.

 

O.

[MilesFox]

Yu should be able to unthread the whole stud, if you have too.

 

If the nut is turning, it can come off. If not, and no budge, try a larger tool. I have good luck with a 6 in extension, ratchet, and 3 ton jack handle section for a cheater bar. !/2" dr is best, but it should come out before breaking a 3/8 tool

 

It is possible that the stud can pull out some of the thread, but not as likeley as unlikely.

 

I always recommend new studs anyway for any that the nut takes out the stud with.The idea is not so uch torque on the threads, but the stretch of the stud by the torque on the nut.

 

IF you booger it, you can still helicoil.

[GeneralDisorder]

Weld a nut to what remains of the stud(s) then use that to attempt removal. You may have to rinse/repeat a dozen times or so but eventually the hot/cold cycles will free it.

 

Otherwise.....Center punch the stud and use a left-hand drill bit. The LH bit has a better chance of grabbing and unthreading the broken stud. Once you have a hole - apply a heli-coil in your favorite size (10mm x 1.25 is nominal) and move on.

 

New studs are about $1 each at the dealer. DO NOT buy the nuts there. Rediculous priceing.

 

A block of wood and some sandpaper will cleanup the exhaust gasket surface on the heads.

 

GD

[eppoh]

If it were mine, and I was concerned about the history/condition of the engine, I would only replace the rear oil seperator plate, then install and run it, before buying all those other parts.

 

They can be changed afteward, with the engine in the car.

 

If the engine is no good, you won't have spent a couple hundred on parts you can't use.

[GeneralDisorder]

If the engine is no good, you won't have spent a couple hundred on parts you can't use.

 

Everything but the cam/crank seals can be transfered to the next engine.... nothing will be unusable except $20 worth of seals. Much easier to do it before dropping it in.

 

GD

[jarl]

@Miles: the engine doesn't have the headers on it, just the remnants of the studs and a lot of rust. And I was happy because all the studs on the EJ25 came out allright. Sigh...

 

@General: Unfortunately, I don't have access to any welding equipment, and the quotes I got were from $20 per bolt "if everything went fine". So I think I'll try to tackle this myself. I just bought the cheapest propane torch from a hardware store, but I have never done this before... I assume I need to heat the aluminum around the broken stud, but I have seen some people say too much heat may distort the head. So: how should I do this?

 

For future visitors: I found the right way to weld a new head to a broken bolt is to first weld a thick washer to it and then weld a nut to both the washer and bolt... you'll have a lot more welding area

 

I'm thinking about replacing most, if not all, the parts mentioned in the post with the long quote (from the LegacyGT forum) before installing the engine. For now I just need those [] studs out

[jarl]

Uhm... I think I was too conservative with the torch. None of the studs bulged with the flame.

 

However... two of them came out using Freeze Off The first one I tried still didn't move, but the other two I could actually grab with the vise grips did come out

 

The two remaining studs will probably need to be drilled out, though. Stay tuned...

Edited June 30, 2011 by jarl

[Crazyeights]

 

Seriously though, good luck. You will get them out. I think part of the key is patience.

[jarl]

Sucker:

 

 

I damaged about 1/3 rd of the threads (you can tell from the picture), but it's just on one side. I guess it will have to work like that.

 

One more to go.

Edited June 30, 2011 by jarl

[doc526]

Nice work! Good luck on the last one.

[jarl]

Well... the last one is a no-go. Actually the last one is no more... there are just some steel remnants still attached inside that hole

 

So, what would you suggest: 7/16" GM stud, or ?

[MilesFox]

metric, and helicoil

 

some people have uses a 7/16" x 14 bottom ing tap to go with that size stud. A helicoil would be a mpre proper fit.

 

Going with the larger stud will compound if it fails or strips out, and then the hole is too wrecked to salvage.

 

If you invest in the helicoils, it can be used on all of the 14mm head bolts (12x1.25)on the engine, especially the idler pulleys for the timing belts, as sometimes they can pull out the threads on neglected engines.