'98 OBW - Overheating - CCR Rebuild vs Promar vs JDM???

[samneric]

Had my OBW since last August with no probs - I knew the HGs were bad because of the black soot in the water expansion tank. Figured I'd ride it until winter when I would tackle the hg job.

 

Went on a 200 mile trip to Pensacola this w/e (awesome sailing!). Heat gauge started rising when I hit traffic - luckily I was near an exit so I bought two jerry cans and filled 'em with water and topped the rad up.

 

Actually - I had filled it up before I left and snapped the top off the damn plastic plug that allows the passenger side of the rad to vent

 

Got to Florida ok, filled it up again and the filled up half way home with no probs.

 

Got back to New Orleans and the needle started to rise again. Stopped and filled it again - within 10 blocks the needle rose again. Stopped again on an incline and filled it up with lots more water.

 

Got home and looked at the expansion tank again - water was now near the top and bubbling! Damn hg's blowing the water out I figure.

 

So now I know I need a new engine - Even though the temp gauge never came close to the top I know the engine has a slight knock for 30-60 seconds everytime I start up from cold so I don't want to waste the time/money/investment on a hg job on an engine who's history I have no idea about.

 

Left with a replacement... I don't want an EJ22 because I like the power (the EJ25 is a little sluggish with the A/C running already). Don't have the time to buy a JDM/Used EJ25 off of ebay and do a hg job. Risky also.

 

I figure my best bet is a CCR rebuild - want the peace of mind...

 

Just found Promar on ebay - longblock reman for $2900.....

 

Also we have the JDM $1100 option! Is the concern here the EGR valve hole in the block???

 

Anyone else done this???

 

Questions, comments, concerns y'all???

 

Steve

Edited July 4, 2011 by samneric

[Fairtax4me]

The biggest gripe I have with the Ej25 is the complete lack of lower end grunt. My Ej22's out pull 25s on the bottom end no problem. In the higher RPM range, you have to get the 2.5 up to 5000 rpm tog et that full extra 25 or 30 hp. It's really not that noticeable of a difference. The change in gearing going from an outback 4.11 gear set to an L's 3.9 fdr makes a bigger difference than the extra HP of the 2.5 IMO. A set of cams in a 2.2 alon with some other minor/bolts on mods will bring it up at or near the power of a 2.5 anyway.

[Quidam]

"I figure my best bet is a CCR rebuild - want the peace of mind..."

 

How do you figure that? If Gross Gary told you that, do the oppisite.

 

Doug

[idosubaru]

sound at start up is rather common for Subaru's - piston slap is benign and nothing to worry about if you had any inclinations to repair this engine or sell it to someone else.

 

are you sure the headgaskets are bad? this is non-typical headgasket failure. could it be something else? soot/blackened overflow tanks aren't that big of a deal - 15 year old car parts get dirty and the headgaskets may have already been replaced..etc.

 

never heard of the other jokers. if you were inclined to consider them i'd ask them what headgsakets are used. if it's not subaru or they don't know i'd avoid them.

 

JDM carries little value because they still have the original headgaskets on them. a USDM motor and have the headgaskets replaced. or buy one with HG's already replaced are other options that have no less value than JDM which tends to carry a heavy price tag for little more than novelty reasons. shouldn't be hard to find a known good engine in the US.

 

if EJ22 is an option at all you can install delta cams to bump up the performance a bit and bridge that gap.

[GeneralDisorder]

There's a local machine shop (that I trust) that does EJ25D long-block rebuilds for $1300 out the door - that's bearings, rings, and complete head rebuild, etc. Not sure what shipping would run but it's worth a phone call. He does these a LOT for the Subaru dealerships and shops in my area. Real nice guy too.

 

http://stevesprecisionmachine.com/home.nxg

 

CCR has not had good reviews on this site of late. I am not a customer of their's - at the end of the day their prices are just out of this world.

 

Also - the noise you hear on startup when cold is most likely piston slap. Very good chance your engine can be saved just by putting in the new updated head gaskets.

 

GD

Edited July 5, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[Quidam]

"CCR has not had good reviews on this site of late. I am not a customer of their's - at the end of the day their prices are just out of this world."

 

They sell engines advertised as "Remanufactured" and they are not. They are REBUILT. And, you can take that to the bank.

 

Doug

[North to Alaska]

I figure my best bet is a CCR rebuild - want the peace of mind...

 

I bought a CCR EJ25D and I asked Emily two questions

1. Will your (ccr) engine knock when it gets 35000 miles on it.

Her answer was NO. our engines don't have that piston knock problem

(LIE #1) She told me what I needed to hear to buy one of their junk motors.

2. Will this engine have head gasket problems. Her answer was No. We build our engines to higher standards then subie

and don't have the head gasket problem. LIE #2

 

She told me everything I needed to hear so i bought their POS engine.

This motor sounded like a diesel on cold start up at 38K.

Blew a head gasket at 120K.

Emily wouldn't even show any class and return any of my phone calls.

 

STAY AWAY from CCR. they sell JUNK. !!!!!!

 

They will tell you what you want to hear just to sell you one of their JUNK motors. Go ahead and call them and ask them the same two questions I asked them.

[Quidam]

"This motor sounded like a diesel on cold start up at 38K."

 

By their own admission, they "never" use new pistons.

 

Doug

[tcspeer]

I bought my engine from CCR, about four years ago, it is a great engine, done the first timing belt change on it yesterday.

 

I found their work to be great and customer service was also great.

[Mike104]

I went through a similar decision when my '99 OBW 2.5L HG's went. Engine had 236k miles and was suggested that if I simply just put new HGs in it may have other problems down the road. Since I had to pay someone to do the job, I went with the CCR engine as it was complete (timing belt, tensioner, oil filter, spark plugs, etc). The other options were bare long blocks (short block and heads only) by the time I paid to have all the other stuff done (at flat rate) it added up quickly, so for me the CCR option ended up being the easiest.

 

My CCR engine has 35k on it now and other than a misfire after installation (fixed itself) I have had no problems yet.

 

I would look into the local guy that GD mentioned. Always better to get something local from those with experience.

 

If I had it to do again, I would probably go the 2.2L swap if I could find someone local to do it for me.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Mike104

[bstone]

Does Jasper make Subaru engines? They make good reman engines.

[samneric]

Thanks for the advice y'all.

 

After weighing up the options (and learning that the knocking on startup is only piston-slap), I'm gonna tackle the HG replacement job myself and hopefully get some more life out of the old workhorse yet!

 

I'm gonna start another thread with my experiences starting with the parts list I have gathered so far...

 

Steve

[subsince77]

No real need for this post at this point, but I sold my car when my CCR engine had 44k on it. Running very strong, no noise, no problems. I takes to the new owner a while back and it's still running great. I had a misfire problem before and after the engine change, so it wasn't their fault, but they did hours of extra work later trying to help me find it. I had a very good experience with them all the way around.

[nipper]

Check subaru, I don't remember what my longblock cost, but mine also had a hole in it.

[Quidam]

Here is some text from a company that remanufactures Subaru engines. I believe the 1998 to 2005 2.5 SOHC and DOHC are both sold for $2975.00 plus core. They warranty their engines for 7 years or 70,000 miles, whichever comes first.

 

" What is the difference between a rebuilt and remanufactured engine?

There is a huge difference between a rebuilt engine and remanufactured one! Companies that rebuild engines will use some of the old engine parts over again. The reality is that they're using used engine parts in their engine blocks. Many engine rebuilders will clean and reuse the valves, valve springs, valve train, push rods and oil pumps over again and sell them to you hidden in the engine. Simply put, you are buying an engine with used mechanical parts. A remanufactured engine must meet or exceed all original equipment specifications. In other words, a remanufactured engine has all new moving parts with re-machined castings which include cylinder head, cylinder block, connecting rods and crankshaft. WE SELL REMANUFACTURED LONG BLOCKS THAT MEET OR EXCEED OE SPECIFICATIONS!"

 

" Our engine supplier has maintained an amazing 1.5% failure rate during its 25+ years in the engine business while the national average failure rate is above 5%."

 

"Our Subaru rebuild engine comes with an exclusive 7-year or 70,000 mile warranty. Power your Subaru automobile with a high performance remanufactured engine (same or better than Subaru crate engine)."

 

"

Product Quality: Our remanufactured engines built to IMPROVE not just REPLACE! All parts in our remanufactured long blocks meet or exceed all original manufactures specifications, and most of the time purchased from the same suppliers who supply the original manufacture.

Note: Beware of any engine supplier using words like reclaimed, re-machined or replaced; These statements mean they are putting used parts back in their engine! Our engines cost less and all our moving parts are new!"

 

You can't "remanufacture" a Subaru engine without replacing the valves. You machine material off and change the valvetrain geometry. Claim here is there is never a problem with Subaru valves. It's not a problem, if you're claiming it's rebuilt.

 

Pistons. You can't "remanufacture" a Subaru engine without replacing them with new. Used select fit just doesn't get it. The side clearance for the rings open up, and no matter what you do, it isn't like new.

 

Claim here is that you never need to bore a Subaru engine. Well, not if you're just rebuilding it, I suppose. The bores do wear in distinct patterns and you're not going to acheve like new ring seal. The bores also distort when you bolt a torque plate to the block. In a square pattern.

 

Rings and bearings, valve job has been done for ages it seems like. I just don't run into many people that call that remanufactured.

 

Doug

 

Edit: And here is some of the qualifications for selling a remanufactured engine on eBay. Of course, there are no cops to enforce it.

 

"It is the functional equivalent of a new part and is virtually indistinguishable from a new part."

Edited July 20, 2011 by Quidam