Subaru EJ22 internal EJ25 ?

[SubaruJawn]

hey guys

 

was curious about an 2.2L with 2.5L Internals

my engine code for this EJ23

 

would that make a difference ?

 

just a block change really.

[idosubaru]

in general EJ25 internals won't completely swap into an EJ22 block - the pistons are too big for the 2.2 sleeve. but i'm not sure "which" internals you're talking about exactly. you can swap short blocks, that's done all the time.

 

you would also need to specify which EJ25 and EJ22 as there are different ones.

[SubaruJawn]

in general EJ25 internals won't completely swap into an EJ22 block - the pistons are too big for the 2.2 sleeve. but i'm not sure "which" internals you're talking about exactly. you can swap short blocks, that's done all the time.

 

you would also need to specify which EJ25 and EJ22 as there are different ones.

 

Early EJ22 90-94 Legacy. internals from an EJ25D (the bad egg)

[johnceggleston]

are you talking about an ej25 block and ej22 heads, aka the frankenmotor?

[SubaruJawn]

are you talking about an ej25 block and ej22 heads, aka the frankenmotor?

No. i mean the internals of an EJ25D in an EJ22

[WoodsWagon]

So you want to use the crank and rods from an EJ25d in an EJ22e block?

I think you end up with a 2.35l engine or something, and it needs custom pistons.

 

Just use the whole EJ25 shortblock and put the EJ22 heads on it. There's nothing to be gained by stroking an EJ22.

[SubaruJawn]

Think to build an good Raw Reliable power EJ.

 

Raw as in, no Turbo or Super charger, nos Ect..

[idosubaru]

what exactly are you asking? don't use the word "internals" any more....tell us exactly what you mean:

What parts John? (internals is not a part that shows up in a parts manual.)

 

EJ25 pistons can't be put into EJ22 engine blocks. are you wanting to swap rods or what?

 

crank, mains, rods, rod bearings, pistons, piston rings, cylinder sleeves....let's talk about some parts.

Edited July 21, 2011 by grossgary

[WoodsWagon]

If you want reliable power, just put an EJ25d in with the new multilayer steel headgaskets. They're fine engines until people overheat the crap out of them a bunch of times after the headgaskets blow.

[SubaruJawn]

what exactly are you asking? don't use the word "internals" any more....tell us exactly what you mean:

What parts John? (internals is not a part that shows up in a parts manual.)

 

EJ25 pistons can't be put into EJ22 engine blocks. are you wanting to swap rods or what?

 

crank, mains, rods, rod bearings, pistons, piston rings, cylinder sleeves....let's talk about some parts.

 

i mean everything from inside of an EJ25 put in an EJ22 Engine Block, but you just said the Pistons wont fit, so that pretty much answers my question.

 

 

If you want reliable power, just put an EJ25d in with the new multilayer steel headgaskets. They're fine engines until people overheat the crap out of them a bunch of times after the headgaskets blow.

 

Fraken motor with multilayer HG's sounds good. but from what i understand the lower end of the EJ25 is weak.

[idosubaru]

from what i understand the lower end of the EJ25 is weak.

they're only weak when they've been overheated. hard part is finding one that has never been overheated.

[987687]

 

Fraken motor with multilayer HG's sounds good. but from what i understand the lower end of the EJ25 is weak.

 

If you want reliable power, just put an EJ25d in with the new multilayer steel headgaskets. They're fine engines until people overheat the crap out of them a bunch of times after the headgaskets blow.

 

 

 

Your question has just been answered. It's being overheated that kills these things. I***helped someone do HG's in theirs (didn't overheat it). The motor has 240k on it currently and running fine.

[SubaruJawn]

Overheated? like as in the RED or got hot above normal ?

 

best to look for a Low Mileage one from a wreck i guess.

[idosubaru]

i think one of the best EJ25's to have would be one currently running great with original headgaskets - that pretty well assures you that it's never been overheated due to headgaskets which is the primary source of severe and unpredictable overheats. a preventatively replaced headgasket would be fine too - but finding and verifying that would be rare.

 

engines with the headgaskets already replaced are really nice - but on an EJ25 that is really good sign also that it's probably already been overheated when they blew. like the 57,000 GT i got last year....HG's replaced at 34,000 under warranty by Subaru - engine block blown at 57,000.

 

Overheated? like as in the RED or got hot above normal ?

i don't think there's any way to quantify that. running above normal for 20,000 miles is probably worse than once in the Red....but in the Red is probably normally worse - there's just too many variables to say "this is worse" or "bad".

 

besides - how are you going to tell or ask when you buy a motor? ask the junk yard :lol: or the owner "how many hours did it spend above normal" "how many minutes in the red"? you'd have to find a one owner vehicle that's driven every single mile of the car and watches his stop watch and temp gauge for every mile in the past 15 years.

 

my guess is you're looking for a deal John, and not paying top dollars - that will probably be more the determining factor than anything else anyway. like most of us on here!

[renob123]

are you talking about an ej25 block and ej22 heads, aka the frankenmotor?

 

:banana:

[987687]

A lot of the ej25Ds get overheated to the point of seizure because people don't know what the hell the thing with H and C is on their dash.

Which is why I now own my legacy.... he did that twice, and the poor thing still started up and ran. But I wouldn't trust that bottom end...

[SubaruJawn]

does anyone have a video of a Frakenmotor Running ?

[renob123]

does anyone have a video of a Frakenmotor Running ?

 

I suppose I could take a video, but I'd prefer to drive it instead. I'm not totally sure what a video would do anyway. It looks and sounds like a Subaru.

 

Jacob

[SubaruJawn]

I suppose I could take a video, but I'd prefer to drive it instead. I'm not totally sure what a video would do anyway. It looks and sounds like a Subaru.

 

Jacob

i would appreciate it though.

 

if you want do a drive video. that would great to.

[92_rugby_subie]

I agree...

 

I constantly want to show off the power of a FrankenMotor, but I still have an EA82.

 

Just show like how it runs on start up (sound and stuff) then a 0-60 and then like a cruise to show power...

 

I still have yet to ride in that beast... but I remember Rick telling someone "Put your seatbelt on..." "... trust me... Youll want it"

[GeneralDisorder]

The sound it makes has everything to do with the exhaust design and much less to do with the actual performance of it.

 

A video just wouldn't do it justice.

 

GD

[WoodsWagon]

i mean everything from inside of an EJ25 put in an EJ22 Engine Block, but you just said the Pistons wont fit, so that pretty much answers my question.

 

 

 

 

Fraken motor with multilayer HG's sounds good. but from what i understand the lower end of the EJ25 is weak.

 

No, the lower end is not weak, and all the parts that make up the lower end is exactly what you're asking about to put into your 2.2l. The blocks don't fail, it's the spinning parts that come apart.

 

I'll use my mom's outback as an example, because I screwed up with it. It was an insurance auction car, and had been totaled because of an engine fire. The harness was burned on the passenger side, and the hood insulation was burned in a spot where the hood was already up when the fire happened, not over where the fire was concentrated on the engine had the hood been closed. So we replace the engine harness and intake duct, and it fires up. Well, you could hear it breath through the radiator the headgaskets were so blown. It also had pretty bad piston slap, but being told it's normal when cold, and not wanting to warm up an engine with no headgaskets, I ignored it.

 

I had the heads milled, did the gaskets, and put the car back together. After changing the ATF a bunch of times to get the torque bind to go away, we put it back on the road.

 

The piston slap has been awful for the last 60k miles. Tak Tak Tak Tak, it sounds like a diesel. But it runs good and we've taken it cross country and back without incident.

 

Seeing as the previous owners resorted to ARSON to get it totalled rather than fixing the headgaskets, and it has brutal piston slap, I guarantee they buried the temp gauge in the red until it seized multiple times. With the tranny fluid burnt and the radiator burst, the coolant left in it had to be molten.

 

Yet it's made it 60k beyond that without a problem, and I didn't touch the bottom end. I should have of course. It would have been easy to put fresh pistons in it then, but I was in a rush since her car had just been hit and demolished.

 

The EJ25 is not weak. It's not a POS, or a ticking time bomb. It was issued with crappy factory head gaskets. I've seen a 98 forester with 187k on it with the origional head gaskets, and an outback with 125k with the origional headgaskets, both without overheating problems. If I had kept those, I would have put new MLS headgaskets in them just to head off the problem. But since I was horsetrading them, I let them be. So it is possible to find good EJ25's in junkyards.

 

Look at the coolant overflow bottle. If it's filled inside with a layer of black goo, the headgaskets have let go. If it's clean or only lightly skuzzy, it's a good donor. Pick up the whole motor, do the headgaskets, water pump, timing belt and idlers, and reseal the rear oil seperator plate, and drop it in place of the EJ22. It will be just as reliable, and plenty of power.

 

The frankenmotor is really only for EA81 body cars where you can't fit the DOHC heads between the frame rails. They flow better than the EJ22 heads, and the increase in compression ratio doesn't make for that big of a difference in power anyway.

[SubaruJawn]

91loyale i appreciate the good info on picking a good donor.

 

but now i am confused.

 

i was told on here that the F.M has 185Hp that's 20hp more than stock EJ25.

F.M would be great for a Winter Beast. especially with bigger heavier tires.

not only a winter beast but a scrap hauler & other Miscellaneous work.

[WoodsWagon]

I'm not seeing a lot of real numbers when it comes to the franken motor. It's a cheap hack to start with, so people that do it are unlikely to pay for dyno time to confirm it. There's also the phase 2 frankenmotor which adds to the confusion. Thats a phase 2 SOHC EJ22 head on a SOHC EJ25 block, not a phase one small valve cover ej22 head on a DOHC ej25d block. Add in stuff like compound performance estimates, like the CAI adds 5hp and the borla header adds 5hp and the lightweight pulley adds 5hp and the crawford sticker on the hood adds 5hp and next thing you know it's a STi killa. Color me dubious.

 

Phase one EJ22 heads flow less than ej25d DOHC heads. Everyone agrees on that. You can try to make up for it by buying delta cam regrinds for the small heads. Some argue the savings of only having to buy 2 reground cams instead of 4 make it worth running the small heads. If you're going to tear down a motor, the price of having 2 extra cams ground for an even larger increase in performance rather than just matching the DOHC performace seems like a small cost.

 

The compression increase will provide some performance increase, but it's not a game-changer. On V8's it's usually 10hp for every point higher, so divide that estimate in half for a 4cyl. It also requires the use of premium fuel all the time, so add 20 cents a gallon extra times however many gallons of fuel burned over the life of the engine and you could have paid for those extra cams to be ground with that money.

 

The franken motor has it's place. It has a cool name, that counts for a lot. It fits between ea81 frame rails, and fits better in beetles and busses. But if you have a car where you can plug a whole EJ25d in without dicking with anything else, there's no reason not to.

 

Remember that a lot of the cars the frankenmotor is going into are lighter than the subarus equipped with EJ25d's to start with, so it feels sportier than a stock one just because of that. Tricks the ol' butt dyno.

 

Another thing to think about: an EJ22t, which uses the same small SOHC heads, with a turbo, makes the same power as a stock EJ25d. Now take the turbo away and put those heads on the EJ25d, what do you think will happen?

Edited July 22, 2011 by WoodsWagon

[SubaruJawn]

just better off putting an DOHC EJ25 in with new 3 Layer HG's

the car I'm speaking of is a 90 Legacy. as some may remember as my first lifted Legacy. i may be getting it back, and i want more power.

 

i figured if its worth it I'd put the 2.2L on the Ej25 before putting it in the Legacy. but i get what your saying, so I'll just put the new HG's on the stock 2.5L and throw it in the early legacy.