Txakura Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh crap, did I break it? I disconnected the 4wd linkage from the gearbox and cycled it through the 3 positions by hand with the engine off. I have 3 clear detent positions. Starting engine I get this; all the way forward is 4 lo, center is false neutral - nothing happens in gear (vroom vroom), all the way back is 4 hi. No 2wd. I rolled back and forth in the alley, fwd back fwd back... no dice, it's 4wd hi or lo, nothing else you see, I had it jump out of gear with a nice metallic *BING* a few days back... and it hasn't seen 2wd since any D/R Doctors out there? am I boned? do I need to find a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The linkage running up the side of the transmission is only the hi-low shifter. Right at the tail of the transmission is where the the 4wd-fwd shift happens, and it is run by the shaft sticking out of the back of the transfer housing. You need to be pulling on that shaft to get it to go into 2wd. If you got agressive with the shifter trying to get it into 2wd while it was bound up, you could have bent the shifter or the shift fork in the transfer housing. Put the parking brake on, and jack up one of the rear wheels so it's off the ground and can spin freely. Then try shifting it into 2wd. If the shifter is down in the fwd position, but the wheel is still engaged and the 4wd light is on, then you need to look at the shift rail sticking out of the back of the trans and make sure it's getting moved all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Just went under it at 10:30 pm with a flashlight. I should have mentioned this is an '87 ea82 d/r 5. I'm not seeing the fork you're referring to. I see the 5 spd shift 'tube' on the top right side, and the 3 position lever under the hood on top and just behind the bellhousing. What am I missing? I'm feeling very dimwitted. Is this the 4wd binding in other posts? I was baffled by the empty slot in the 3 position lever where before I had thought the 2wd lived there too. Edited July 29, 2011 by Txakura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 all the way forward is 4 lo, center is false neutral - nothing happens in gear (vroom vroom), all the way back is 4 hi. No 2wd. Am I just lost in what you are saying? All the way up/forward is 4LO, Middle is 4HI and All the way down/flat is 2WD on my 86 Dual Range 5 Speed... If it wont go down into the FWD (if thats what youre asking, still a little unclear as I read this and I apologize, could be lack of sleep) Get the car straight and drive it forward in a straight-straight line, and then try and push the lever down... Should work, if not, I would say something is wrong.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I think I understand what youre asking... Like is your linkage not hooked up correctly or is there something internally in the transmission that isnt allowing for a 2WD/FWD option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm saying I have disconnected the entire linkage/rod, and that all the way back is now 4 hi, (instead of 2wd like it was) when I shift it under the hood by hand so right off the side of the transmission with no rod or shift lever attached I now have 4 hi, false neutral, and 4 lo where before I had 2 hi, 4 hi, 4 lo back to front for both those descriptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You have a grasp of the high/low engagement system, but what you haven't grasped is that the 4WD linkage is completely seperate at the REAR of the transmission. By decoupling the linkage in the way you have - you are able to switch it between high range and low range but you are not taking it out of 4WD. The stock linkage only allows 2WD high, 4WD high, and 4WD low. But in reality it IS possible to be in 2WD low. It's just not availible with the stock linkage setup. The high/low is done at the input shaft - either it's allowed to drive straight through (direct drive) in high range, or it drives through two sets of gear reduction's on a daughter shaft to the input shaft BEFORE any 1 through 5 gear reductions take place. The 4WD engagement system happens AFTER the 1 through 5 gears - essentially the pinion shaft that drives the front diff is either coupled to the rear drive shaft or is it not. These two systems are 100% seperate - you are only operating one of the two systems that is operated by the stock linkage. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I had it jump out of gear with a nice metallic *BING* a few days back... and it hasn't seen 2wd since Drain your gearbox oil and see what comes out with it. I'm thinking that there's a circlip that has been dislodged on the 4wd hi/lo and 2wd selector. The one lever operates the 2wd, 4wd high and 4wd low positions with a series of spring and dedent balls in the back of the gearbox under the flat plate. If a circlip has been dislodged (would be difficult but if the box has been abused or apart before it is possible) it will render some of the functions of the mechanism useless. Below is an EA82 DR gearbox, you can see the flat plate on top of the rear housing on the gearbox with the lever that selected 2wd/4wd hi/4wd lo and the rod out to the front of the gearbox for the high/lo range selection. The mechanism is in the rear housing, this is where the problem will be: Here is the complicated mechanism that does all the work for us - it engages the drive to the rear end in the rear of the gearbox and then selects high and low range at the other end of the gearbox: I remember that there's probably about 3 or 4 sets of dedent balls and springs in here! My bet would be that the circlip you can see on the shaft on the right hand side just below the upper part that crosses over the two shafts has come loose or is now floating around in the bottom of your gearbox. From memory the second pic is in 4wd low range. If you are or have been violent with the 4wd engaging, over time it would most likely flog out this circlip as it is the one that moves up to engage low range and back to disengage 4wd. Hope these pics and descriptions help you out. After thinking about it some more I've got some questions for you: Does it actually select low range and high range?? Can you feel the 4wd system binding when you turn a tight corner? - test this on a loose surface only. Are you sure you don't have a dicky 4wd switch that has the 4wd light remain on? What is it that makes you think you cannot select 2wd mode? Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I'm saying I have disconnected the entire linkage/rod, and that all the way back is now 4 hi, (instead of 2wd like it was) when I shift it under the hood by hand so right off the side of the transmission with no rod or shift lever attached I now have 4 hi, false neutral, and 4 lo where before I had 2 hi, 4 hi, 4 lo back to front for both those descriptions You need to be looking at the linkage between the shift lever in the center console and the back of the transmission, not the one that goes down the side of the transmission. That one is working just like it should, so you can hook it back up and leave it alone. Hopefully you didn't change the length of it when you were taking it apart. That shift rod should have been left alone, as it controls hi-lo, not 4wd 2wd. Ask questions first, take parts off later. Jack one of the rear wheels off the ground with the parking brake on and try spinning it by hand. Then get in the car, and push the 4wd lever all the way down to the 2wd position. Then try spinning the wheel again. Tell us what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 TY all, GD is right in that if I don't understand normal system operation, I cannot determine the solution for abnormal operation. re: rod length, there was no need to change the length of the hi lo rod, I disconnected it at the non shift lever end to isolate the rod vs. gearbox, which seemed logical at the time, but was based on a false understanding of the aforementioned normal system operation. Let me digest the info you all posted, do some crawling under and get back to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I might be missing the point here, kindof sleep deprived but it sounds like the FWD system is broken and the 4wd system works. Wouldn't it be possible you broke a front axle (pinging noise indicated above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 I might be missing the point here, kindof sleep deprived but it sounds like the FWD system is broken and the 4wd system works. Wouldn't it be possible you broke a front axle (pinging noise indicated above). O WOW thats an interesting idea... hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 Hmm. Ok, now I know the dif between the hi/lo rod and the 2wd 4wd linkage. It refuses to come out of 4wd, is this the thing I have read about where you have to jack the car to take the load off and run in reverse to disengage? rolling backwards and forwards has done nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Might try that... Im sure it couldnt hurt anything... just dont pull a Ferris Bueller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The other thing that could have happened is that if you've really forced it you could have bent the selector lever - I've alway disengaged 4wd on the fly - just gently lean on the lever and wait till it pops out, sometimes with a bang when the tension in the system is released! Not always fun but on the rare occasion (for me) it is difficult to disengage 4wd this is what I do ^ Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 +1 done that a few times... Loud clunk, but then I go to my buddies house, spray down his old garden/driveway (hes become a car scrapper so its just a dusty mudpit) and sit in the middle of it, put it back in 4WD and drive straight forward and disengage it gently just to be sure that its all working fine. Never have an issue though so as long as you gently lean on it like stated, it should pop down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Might try that... Im sure it couldnt hurt anything... just dont pull a Ferris Bueller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txakura Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 The problem was mainly me. The 4/2 lever was always a little off, it had 98% of full travel to the rear before hitting the center console. It had even less travel after dropping the transmission for the lift. I made a 1.75 inch spacer for the linkages, and cut and welded the D/R lever to a new length and angle. When I posted this, and did not mention the drop, I had the linkages rigged for test flight only. I freaked and posted too quick as it SEEMED like it should have all worked normally. So, TY all for putting up with me and trying to help me out when the problem was the owner/operator. :-\ It works great now, and adding one turn to the lo/hi rod has really tuned that to be better than it ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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