roadsubiedog Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Looking for my next best Subaru and don't want another 2.5 with head gasket problems so am looking for the best year model with the 2.2 motor. which year do you think was the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 there really is no "best" as the EJ22's are all great motors, just depends on preference/what kind of owner you are. i'd much rather get the car i want at the deal i want than sway in those areas just for a different year EJ22 that won't add any value to my ownership. you're already limiting yourself away from the nicer optioned and trimmed EJ25 vehicles so i wouldn't keep pounding the issue - penny wise and dollar dumb to me. honestly i'd rather get an EJ25 with a blown motor (easy to find) and install an EJ22. you get nicer rides, options, etc, and an EJ22. good way to get a great deal too as blown EJ25 vehicles aren't expensive. some obsevations that might help: 97 and up are interference engines. (although a 1996 on another forum recently broke and had valve damage so there are some 96's that were interference or it was swapped with a later model). if you don't maintain vehicles well or don't plan on installing all new timing components (pulleys and tensioner), the non-interference versions are nice as you don't have to worry about them braking. just drive and replace whatever breaks, if it does. doesn't matter to me as i'm more concerned about reliability - i drive too much and too far to afford a break down (maine, georgia, SC, florida, new orleans all in the past year), so i replace all the timing components anyway. if you maintain it properly interference doesn't much matter. the older style tensioners are less expensive and more reliable. so that would be 1996 and earlier, though it seems like many people say 97's are old style tensioner too but the 97 legacy L and Impreza OBS were both new styles that i owned/worked on. anyway, the timing kits are roughly $80-$100 more for the new style tensioner timing kits on ebay. and the newer style tensioners are not only more expensive, but far more prone to failure, go figure. the 99's+ are hard to find, a bit harder to work on (plugs through covers), and not as common if you need parts/work/replacement. probably won't, but there you go. wikipedia has the horsepower breakdown if you want to get a little more grunt out of it, with small increases in 95 and later. i think it went from 135 to 142 hp or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 95 is best. Non interference, roller rockers with hydraulic lash adjusters, dual port exhaust, and OBDii. Later ones have single port exhaust and manual valve adjustments and are interference, for a tiny gain in power. Earlier ones have sliding cam followers instead of rollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) Personally I like the 90 to 94 Legacy models. It's not just about the engine - the engine is a DAMN good design, but the overall quality of the early Legacy's is much higher than the '95+ "cost-cut" models. Though some people prefer the asthetics of the '95+, if you want the best all-around quality it's in the '90 to '94's and probably a '93/'94 is the best choice as they have drivers side airbags and are the newest with probably the fewest miles on them. GD Edited August 7, 2011 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 90-94 engineered for better long-term. On online insurance auction sites, and other online places, I see many more 350k plus mile units in that era than later..that tells me they are best for longevity. The only reason they got taken out at 350k is an accident causing too much damage to keep on road, not because of a engine, or mileage issue of things wearing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 (edited) those gen I's are money mechanically, goes beyond the engine too. Edited August 6, 2011 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 95 is what I always try to get to drop into the failed 2.5 DOHC Outbacks. Great Swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goof_ball Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I prefer the Outback trim and was fortunate to find a 96 with the 2.2. Don't know if it's the "best", but that's my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982gl4 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I agree with GD, and bheinen74, the early legacy's are some of the best cars you will find. Not only the engines, but the rest of it as well. They go forever, both of the ones that I owned had over 200k, all original drivetrain. They seem to last a lot longer than any of the newer subaru's I've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efseiler Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Is there any way to tell the build year of the engine by serial number? I've got a swapped EJ22 in my '98 and I'm a little concerned about the timing belt... I can't really tell if they've done a timing belt recently...I'm guessing not. The engine doesn't seem to be very old or used...I'm guessing 60k miles on it. --Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Is there any way to tell the build year of the engine by serial number? No. And you should start your own thread asking such a question. The engine doesn't seem to be very old or used...I'm guessing 60k miles on it. Guessing is useless. Appearance means nothing. The EJ22 can easily run to 300k+ and still run perfect. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 difference may be in some of the wiring connectors. the 90-94 had the bulk of the harness go to the battery tray area on the front driver left side up by the radiator/battery tray area. The 95+ had the harness connector right above the bellhousing center back of throttle body area. I am not sure but the length of the wiring to the main connectors could easily identify what range you are to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadsubiedog Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 thanks for your suggestions. I've had 7 subies. 4 of them 1984's which i think are great. one has 311k ( weekend driver ) the other has 162k( sons) and one died at 277k. the last one was a show car with only 49k on it. 2 1982's not so great and a 1999 outback which i like a lot bc of the ABS and cruise and smooth ride.. the headgaskets were replaced almost 50k ago and the car is still running well ( knock on wood ) total miles around 240k. there are a lot of blown 2.5s around this area .tahoe-reno but people want a lot of money for them. the engine swap sounds like a real good idea. a guy in reno will do it for me for 500 bucks plus the engine and other parts.just for future research. never had a 90-94 . that sounds like a good idea to look into. i drive 20,000 mile a year just to go to work. thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efseiler Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 eh? Well the question did seem relevant to the thread title Mr. Disorder. 300k miles? Yeah probably...those engines are pretty hardy. You're a skeptic it would seem from your responses...but certain eyes really can just tell from a glance anyway. --Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 You're a skeptic it would seem from your responses...but certain eyes really can just tell from a glance anyway. Unlikely. When I do 2.5 to 2.2 swaps I steam clean the replacement engine before installing it. I also often have to replace parts of the timing belt covers, and of course I reseal everything. Certainly if someone looked at the engine bay of one of my swaps they would probably think as you have that the engine must be almost new - rarely is that the case. Typically the replacements have over 100k on them. Last swap I did the engine had 144k on it and looked brand new. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efseiler Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 well then...d**ned if I know! --Damien p.s. Where do you get all those labor resources from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 p.s. Where do you get all those labor resources from? Define "labor resources"...? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efseiler Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 well...the ability to move complex, massive objects nimbly and at great speed...that sort of thing. There are those with the heart do to it quickly and easily and oftentimes it comes at the expense of others.... There's like a Holy bank account related to that sort of activity, anyway... Drivers are 'pretty guilty' as well.... :-\ Cheers! --Damien p.s. I daresay Japan suffered the latest ill-effect of such a bankruptcy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeky Moose Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 i've had more subaru's than i can count, dones several swaps etc.. aside from the 91' legacy i have now with 99k miles (won't give it up for anything, its like new and has another 200k at least) my fav was the 99' outback.. bought it with a blown 2.5dohc. put a 95' 2.2l in it, was the best imo for comfort and all around good car.. cost me $1400 all together to put the 99' together.. the 99' was far better than the 2002' we had. the 2002 felt cheap even tho it was a limited with dual sunroofs, ;leather, etc. but it felt cheap comp;ared to the 99'. and it didn't go in the snow as good as the 99' either, something was different with the awd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 well...the ability to move complex, massive objects nimbly and at great speed...that sort of thing. There are those with the heart do to it quickly and easily and oftentimes it comes at the expense of others.... I kind-of grasp what you mean.... I never mistreat my customers.... I suppose my profit comes at the expense of the guy selling the car cheap because it's broken.... but that's hardly my fault. I'm definitely guilty of taking advantage of a good deal and I'll even sometimes use buying tactics that "help" my posistion. So yeah - if it's Karma you speak of then I'm clean . I've built my business model on being honest and treating people like family. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadsubiedog Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 i've had more subaru's than i can count, dones several swaps etc.. aside from the 91' legacy i have now with 99k miles (won't give it up for anything, its like new and has another 200k at least) my fav was the 99' outback.. bought it with a blown 2.5dohc. put a 95' 2.2l in it, was the best imo for comfort and all around good car.. cost me $1400 all together to put the 99' together.. the 99' was far better than the 2002' we had. the 2002 felt cheap even tho it was a limited with dual sunroofs, ;leather, etc. but it felt cheap comp;ared to the 99'. and it didn't go in the snow as good as the 99' either, something was different with the awd.. thanks. i'll definately keep my 99 and put a 2.2 in it when the time comes. I just want a good backup bc of all the commuting i do. I'm looking at a 1992 legacy soon( for $1000). also a 1994 legacy but it has a tranny problem but it's only 400 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 s I steam clean the replacement engine before installing it... Certainly if someone looked at the engine bay of one of my swaps they would probably think as you have that the engine must be almost new - rarely is that the case. Agree with that! It's like judging a book by its cover - an engine's health is not told by what it looks like on the outside rather it is the gear inside that needs inspection or an up to date log book to make a judgement from... I'm keen to know about these interference engines from '95 - are these the SOHC units or just the DOHC ones? I know the DOHC doesn't hit the pistons rather its the inlet and exhaust valves that hit eachother when the cam belt snaps and each cam freewheels independently of the other one on the same bank resulting in a bent or broken valve that can then interfere with top of the piston. I've not had a lot of experience of the later models but the ones from the 90's seem very good and still stand up to the test of time if looked after - this includes the interior. The 2010 outback is pretty solid but is also a very large vehicle for a subaru IMO - they've lost that medium/large car appeal that I loved so much! Cheers Bennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efseiler Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I kind-of grasp what you mean.... I never mistreat my customers.... I suppose my profit comes at the expense of the guy selling the car cheap because it's broken.... but that's hardly my fault. I'm definitely guilty of taking advantage of a good deal and I'll even sometimes use buying tactics that "help" my posistion. So yeah - if it's Karma you speak of then I'm clean . I've built my business model on being honest and treating people like family. GD It's just a reminder that ease for 'Le Mechanic' can mean 'major headache' for many others.... and then, of course, is the problem of 'pieces of paper with funny letters and numbers on them' v. 'hard currency'. --Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarunation 713 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Grossgary already mentioned the 99 2.2 as harder to find. If I were to get another Legacy I would stay away from the 99. A nationwide Hollander search (excluding CA spec) shows about 55 used 2.2s for the 99 Legacy and some of those are parts only engines. Do the same search for earlier model 2.2s and there are more like 55 MILLION! (give or take a few) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 To Woods Wagon - I read with interest your reply to this thread on 08-06-2011. Recently I have been looking to identify with photographs/descriptive matter the differences you describe between the earlier phase 1 ej22 with sliding rocker cams and the later phase 1 with roller rocker cams. I cant find any diagrams/photographs depicting this or comment as to which is best and why. Also do these variations in the cams mean that there were different components around these to accomodate these parts - or were they interchangeable. Were the earlier designs unreliable or something. Can you spot these differences on an engine in the car or is it just the case that it is based on year/model. Thankyou for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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