SubaruFred Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Hello, while I was changing out my duty C solenoid I noticed a lot of slop in my DS front wheel bearing. It's not tie rod ends or ball joints. You can see the hub assy moving inside the knuckle. The guy at the shop said that when they fail the bearing usually welds itself onto the spindle and can't be pressed out. He recommended that I replace the entire knuckle assy with a used one. He also told me that tightening the spindle nut wouldn't help although it sure looks as though it's just loose. It doesn't make any noise when driving although I can feel some sloppiness in the steering. I've changed wheel bearings before on older cars but never one with ABS. I have a 93 Legacy wagon w. ABS. I'd really appreciate any advice. TIA Edit: After some research I think I may know what's wrong. It appears that the bearing assy has come loose from the knuckle so I need a new knuckle and bearing. Edited August 17, 2011 by SubaruFred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Is the junction the arrow points to the press fit connection between the bearing and the knuckle? If so I have a problem because mine is loose and wobbly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 If I remember correctly there is a large nut that tightens up on the end of the axle. See if it is loose, and if so tighten it up, which should remove the play that you are talking about at the wheel bearing. With a help of a friend, we used a hub tamer to R&R a right front wheel bearing on my 99 OBW. It was a nasty job, that I will pay someone to do this job in the future. Unless your wheel bearing starts making weird noises, I wouldn't replace it, if you have this in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 The axle nut is tight but there is still a huge amount of wheel wobble. I showed it to a mechanic and he strongly advised me not to drive it until I replace the wheel bearing. I'm just wondering if I might need a new knuckle to go with the bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 The axle nut is tight but there is still a huge amount of wheel wobble. I showed it to a mechanic and he strongly advised me not to drive it until I replace the wheel bearing. I'm just wondering if I might need a new knuckle to go with the bearing. Since your axle nut is tight, Yea, I think you need to replace the wheel bearing. Having just replaced my wheel bearing with the help of a friend, I doubt you will need to replace the knuckle. The inner and outer races of the bearing should prevent damage to the knuckle. The races are each about an inch wide, and pressed super tight into the knuckle, which is why a hydraulic press, or hub tamer is required to remove the races from the hub. You prolly already know this about bearing removal. If, however, upon dis-assembly and inspection, it is found there is damage to the hub, then, and only then, would I replace the hub. Yea, I guess you could buy a new hub, which I think costs about $125 at a Subie dealer just to have readily available if needed. Just make sure upon purchase, that the dealer will refund your money, if the part is not needed, and you want to return it. Good luck on this project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 So then it's normal for that metal ring around the axle in the photo to wobble around in the knuckle? I thought it was the outer race of the bearing. Unfortunately for me, I know very little about wheel bearings or steering components. I just installed a new duty C by myself but am clueless about this wheel bearing problem. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 That metal piece is the dust shield attached to the axle, so it spins with the inner race. You just need wheel bearings, not a knuckle. Pull the knuckle off the car and take it to a shop to have them press the new bearings into it, then reassemble. The axle just pushes out of the hub once you have the nut off. Mark where your camber bolt on the strut is oriented with a chisel, so when you put it back together you don't have to get an alignment to set the camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thanks! I really needed to know what that piece was and why it wobbled around with the loose wheel. Do you think it might be worth trying a hub shark or tamer or should I just let a machine shop handle the bearing press-out/in? Also, the outer CV boot is almost gone. I suppose this would be a good time to replace the axle. Where's a good place to buy a new axle? Hmmm... do I need to remove the knuckle to remove the axle? If so I may as well skip the hub shark/tamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 You want to keep the stock subaru axle if you can, all the aftermarket ones are crap. You can buy new boots to go on the axle, and I used a universal strechy boot on the last one I did that's worked well. The 2 piece glue/screw together boots don't work. This boot was meant to be stretched over the CV joint, then shrinks back to fit. I used 4 screwdrivers and silicone spray as lube and it worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 ** Purchase a new hub in case you need it, return unopened if you don't ** If there are lines going around the hub where the inner races go, it needs a hub as the inner races have been spinning on the hub. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 You want to keep the stock subaru axle if you can, all the aftermarket ones are crap. You can buy new boots to go on the axle, and I used a universal strechy boot on the last one I did that's worked well. The 2 piece glue/screw together boots don't work. This boot was meant to be stretched over the CV joint, then shrinks back to fit. I used 4 screwdrivers and silicone spray as lube and it worked great. Are aftermarket axles really so bad that it's better to keep the oem with 180k on them? Rock Auto has a new Cardone half-shaft for only $45 with boots. I'd rather use this unless the new axle won't last 50k. Thanks. ** Purchase a new hub in case you need it, return unopened if you don't ** If there are lines going around the hub where the inner races go, it needs a hub as the inner races have been spinning on the hub. Dave Thanks. I'll look for a new hub in case I need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Are aftermarket axles really so bad that it's better to keep the oem with 180k on them? Rock Auto has a new Cardone half-shaft for only $45 with boots. I'd rather use this unless the new axle won't last 50k. Thanks. Your call: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/37399-vibration-idle-after-replacing-front-axles-solved.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) i think new knuckles come plain, no bearing , not hub. used knuckle will come complete with bearing. and will have who knows how many more miles left. but they are cheap, $35. i'd have a used one sitting around ready to go. put the new bearing in it if the one on the car is bad. but if it is not making noise it can't be too bad, can it?? Edited August 18, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Read this thread. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=124305&highlight=wheel+bearing+harbor+freight GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 I am a moron for listening to an idiot! The owner of the shop where I rented a bay/lift to change my duty C told me that there was no point in checking the axle nut. He stated that it was 100% a bad wheel bearing. I asked to rent a socket to check it and he said I was wasting my time and I believed him. Big mistake. The axle nut was loose. I checked it yesterday and concluded that it seemed tight but I did so without unstaking the nut or the proper size socket. Today I found a socket that fit (1-1/4"), unstaked the nut and found it to be loose. I torqued it to 140 ft lbs and re-staked it. No more wheel wobble. I need a new axle nut and possibly a new bearing. I don't know how long the nut was loose but it might have damaged the bearing. Thanks again for all your help and remember to trust your instincts more than the advice of mediocre garage mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Also, the outer CV boot is almost gone. I suppose this would be a good time to replace the axle. Where's a good place to buy a new axle? Many of us swear by MWE--rebuilt genuine Subaru axles. Quality is good and Marshall Wolf is a straight arrow guy to deal with. Here's a link: http://www.ccrengines.com/mwe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 if it goes loose again it will be an indication of a damaged hub from slopping around in there for so long. RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've test driven the car about 20 miles now and there is no noise from the wheel bearing and the wheel doesn't get any hotter than the others. I did notice some strange noise when braking initially but that was probably due to the change in rotor angle. The pads have already re-seated and the braking noise is gone. I'll replace the axle nut because the stake sleeve is missing a small chunk. There was enough left to stake the nut but not enough to trust it long term. I'll keep an eye on it and if it loosens again, find a used/new hub assy. Thanks again to everyone for your helpful replies. Now that the wheel bearing issue is hopefully resolved, I don't have to rush to find a solution to the failing CV boot. It's a shame that aftermarket replacement axles are so poorly made. I'd gladly pay twice as much for a good axle assy than $50 for a crappy one. It seems that my best options are to re-boot the oem axle or buy a reman from MWE. I'm also going to try the Harbor Freight Chinky shark/tamer knock off kit the next time I have to replace a wheel bearing. This forum is a fantastic resource! Pat yourselves on the back for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 EMPI axles are good quality aftermarket replacements. I've used dozens without any failures. They are about $65, are brand new (no reman parts), and carry a lifetime warrantee. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've test driven the car about 20 miles now and there is no noise from the wheel bearing and the wheel doesn't get any hotter than the others. I did notice some strange noise when braking initially but that was probably due to the change in rotor angle. The pads have already re-seated and the braking noise is gone. I'll replace the axle nut because the stake sleeve is missing a small chunk. There was enough left to stake the nut but not enough to trust it long term. I'll keep an eye on it and if it loosens again, find a used/new hub assy. Thanks again to everyone for your helpful replies. Now that the wheel bearing issue is hopefully resolved, I don't have to rush to find a solution to the failing CV boot. It's a shame that aftermarket replacement axles are so poorly made. I'd gladly pay twice as much for a good axle assy than $50 for a crappy one. It seems that my best options are to re-boot the oem axle or buy a reman from MWE. I'm also going to try the Harbor Freight Chinky shark/tamer knock off kit the next time I have to replace a wheel bearing. This forum is a fantastic resource! Pat yourselves on the back for me! The bearing is either OK- or it isn't, but if it does go bad I would guess it would fail in a normal fashion, probably nothing weird. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubaruFred Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 EMPI axles are good quality aftermarket replacements. I've used dozens without any failures. They are about $65, are brand new (no reman parts), and carry a lifetime warrantee. GD Thanks! I'd much rather install new axles than deal with re-booting 180k axles. Does EMPI have different grades? Rock Auto has them but the warranty is only 1 year. The bearing is either OK- or it isn't, but if it does go bad I would guess it would fail in a normal fashion, probably nothing weird. Dave Well so far it seems to be "good" however I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some abnormal wear that will shorten the service life. I'll just keep an ear on it and check for wheel play when I can. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 That may be a misprint on the warrantee. They are all the same - shouldn't be any difference in grades. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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