TheLoyale Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) So, TW10 started up with this issue a few weeks ago (Phase-I EJ22) Starts up, idles fine, while driving it will become very boggy, sometimes starts to sputter and the idle lofts driving and parked, If you rev it a few times it clears up and runs fine, then it will come back in a few minutes. It seems to be getting worse since I put two new O2 sensors in (Last code I had was P0136 rear O2 sensor) replaced that today, no more code, but runs worse off and on? Seems like it is running way to rich during its spaz aswell. You can smell fuel coming outta the exhaust, it also seems to run a little rich all the time. It has an UEL Header which I've had on for over a year, so that can't be causing an issue. Has new as of last year: Cam sensor Crank sensor Knock Sensor Plugs/wires Fuel filter New as of this year: Up and Down flow O2 sensors. MAF is clean, but I'm not sure if its malfunctioning, Can a failing Coil pack cause this? I'm stumped since there are no codes (And I have driven it long enough to have new codes if there were to be any) I'm thinking of getting a lower milage MAF, TPS, Coil Pack off a junkyard car. This motor has 220,000 on it. Ideas? Edited August 21, 2011 by TheLoyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Not much for ideas beyond what you already said. Are the wires cheapo wires or Subaru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Not much for ideas beyond what you already said. Are the wires cheapo wires or Subaru? They are Carquest brand, but I think it would have affected it before hand, bu then again, when you get down to it, Wires are wires. I drove this car 1,000 miles round trip in one day a few months ago with no issues. This sputtering/lofting issue started one night after I hit a puddle, I figured maybe it had a little water ingestion and would clear up in a few minutes, I just don't get why it comes and goes while driving and doesn't produce a code. When it does sputter while idling, it will drop down to almost 0rpm then back up to or beyond 500rpm, I have never had it run this bad since tonight, when under acceleration I had like zero power to get up to speed, I got up to about 35mph and pulled over trying to keep it running (Even though it has never stalled) revved it some, cleared up, and drove it home with out it acting up much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 They are Carquest brand,EJ's can easily have ignition issues, make sure it's not the wires. though i would expect it to throw a code, i've seen them not throw a code with bad wires too. This sputtering/lofting issue started one night after I hit a puddle, I figured maybe it had a little water ingestionif this was a lot of water then you need to pull all the plugs, dry out the wells and wires and reseat them. if it's enough water it'll happen just as you describe and not go away until they're pulled and dried out. i would do this first before anything else if you did hit significant water. you probably have a manual (?) but auto's have a small round filter in-line with a vacuum hose on the passengers side. i believe it's EGR related, but don't hold me to it. i'm not sure why it did this but i had a 97 OBS that was nearly undrivable at times, would come and go, and i couldn't figure it out for a long time. wouldn't down shift, gutless, and barely could power itself up a steep grade. replaced that little fiilter ($7 at Subaru) and it ran perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 It wasn't much water (I have gone through much deeper) I will pull the plugs tomorrow and check things out for giggles. I am wondering about that little filter thing now, yes its a 4:11 Auto. I see a quarter size round filter on a vac line that leads onto a fitting on the intake on the passenger side, is that it? Its the most noticeable one there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) I am wondering about that little filter thing now, yes its a 4:11 Auto. I see a quarter size round filter on a vac line that leads onto a fitting on the intake on the passenger side, is that it? Its the most noticeable one there.that sounds like it. it's a black cylinder (roughly the diameter of a quarter) and it's wrapped in a light foam cover so to speak i think (or maybe it used to be ). have no idea what/why that thing is there. Edited August 19, 2011 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 hydraulic tensioner failing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 hydraulic tensioner failing? Nope, the tensioner is good (Its the log style) but the timing it still dead on and the belt is tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 so was mine. similar symptoms. periods of rough running, barely able to accelerate, nearly stall at idle. no codes. then it would go away for a day or three. tensioner retracted, allowing slack in belt, then it would extend. belt was in correct position, but the slack allowed the cams to be in "different" positions. eventually, snapped the belt from the slack. new tensioner seems to have made the symptoms go away (just got back from a round trip from nh to mi). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hmm, thats something to keep in mind. I have another tensioner, maybe I'll swap it and see what happens. Don't want to snap my new belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I am wondering if the fuel pressure regulator is causing this issue? Its allowing way to much fuel in at times causing the richness. My plugs are black with carbon build up (Only a year old) Other ideas on what is causing so much un-burned fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 This has to be an issue with the fuel system and the corresponding sensors. Looking at MAP, MAF, FPR, Injector. I took an Ohm reading on all 4 Injectors and came back with 12.5 Ohms on all except driver side front which varied from 12.0-Ohms to 12.3-Ohms (Is this ok?) Specs for 1995-1998 Injectors is 5-20 Ohms. So I guess my next step is to get these featured parts from the junkyard and see if anything changes. Is a MAF from a First generation EJ22 the same as a '95 EJ22? They are both 5 pin connectors, is there any difference in resistances? Also, will a FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) and MAP (Manifold Atmospheric Pressure sensor) from a 1997 EJ25 be the same as a EJ22? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think the best way to track this down would be to get live data from the sensor input streams: http://www.surrealmirage.com/vrg3/b10scan/ GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 So after inspecting the plugs, turns out they have some white build up on the electrode (Which is caused from running lean) The smell of the exhaust is not full of fuel, but more of a carbon smell. So I don't know? I put new NGK plugs in as I have to start somewhere, going to see what results I get now. While running, I noticed the EGR didn't more with revving, so I push it up by hand and now it moves, can this be a cause? I've heard the EGR won't affect much other then start ups (If I'm correct?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Plugs can show all sorts of colors when there is a running problem. But since you mentioned the FPR, did you check the vacuum line for gas? A ruptured FPR will make it run very rich. Is a MAF from a First generation EJ22 the same as a '95 EJ22? Should be. Just match up the part number on the sticker on the side. It's probably a 22680- AA160. I got one for my 96 out of an older gen Legacy and it worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I replaced the FRP with another from the junkyard out of a Impreza. I also replaced most of the old Vac lines with new. Nice and snug Vs. sloppy (Like the town whore) Not sure if its fixed or not. Question, can a Sticking EGR cause this type of issue? I noticed that the EGR seems to get stuck during revving, so I help it along with my finger and then it starts working like normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Only if it gets stuck open. Usually a stuck open EGR valve will flat out stall the engine at idle. If it's partially blocked or carboned up really bad it could hang open just enough to mess with things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Only if it gets stuck open. Usually a stuck open EGR valve will flat out stall the engine at idle. If it's partially blocked or carboned up really bad it could hang open just enough to mess with things. Ok, well, I took it off cleaned up some of the carbon build up it had (Not much) put it back on and replaced all the vac lines going to that and the ones on top of the intake (close to the TB) That was not the issue since it started acting up again just a mile down the road. SO, when I got home, it was still running like complete crap, I tapped the top of the MAF with my finger and that would make it run worse (If you tapped it harder it would stall) I am thinking this is a bad Mass Air Flow Sensor? Am I'm right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Only if it gets stuck open. Usually a stuck open EGR valve will flat out stall the engine at idle. If it's partially blocked or carboned up really bad it could hang open just enough to mess with things. so your saying if your egr valve is closed off it would mess up things?? because i had a 2.2 swap done and the egr valve on my engine was unplugged and brazed shut and all disconnected and i cant figure out why he did that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 so your saying if your egr valve is closed off it would mess up things?? because i had a 2.2 swap done and the egr valve on my engine was unplugged and brazed shut and all disconnected and i cant figure out why he did that Was is a 4EAT or a 5-spd? Cause only the Autos have an EGR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 EJ's can easily have ignition issues, make sure it's not the wires. though i would expect it to throw a code, i've seen them not throw a code with bad wires too. That is true.. I was testing the resistance with the wires I had in my car.. and low and behold I think it was the wire for #4 was reading Zero on my meter but yet I got no code.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Was is a 4EAT or a 5-spd? Cause only the Autos have an EGR. Are you talking about the 2.2? because my 2.5 has a EGR and it's a 5-spd but my 2.2 legacy was a 2.2 and no EGR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Are you talking about the 2.2? because my 2.5 has a EGR and it's a 5-spd but my 2.2 legacy was a 2.2 and no EGR. Was it only on the 2.2? I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 SO, when I got home, it was still running like complete crap, I tapped the top of the MAF with my finger and that would make it run worse (If you tapped it harder it would stall) I am thinking this is a bad Mass Air Flow Sensor? Am I'm right? Sounds like a good test to me. Wiggle the wires some just to make sure it's not a wire issue. You could also unplug it and drive the car around the block a few times (it won't be happy, but it will still go) to see if that makes a change. so your saying if your egr valve is closed off it would mess up things?? because i had a 2.2 swap done and the egr valve on my engine was unplugged and brazed shut and all disconnected and i cant figure out why he did that Other way around. When the valve opens it lets exhaust gases into the intake manifold. This creates "dirty" air which decreases the effectiveness of combustion. If the valve is opened at idle, it also creates essentially a very large vacuum leak in the intake manifold. With the drop in vacuum, plus sucking in exhaust, the fuel air mixture entering the cylinders becomes almost impossible to ignite. But at higher Rpms when the valve opens the change is barely noticeable. When the valve is closed (whether it's stuck, welded, blocked off, etc.) there is no change in vacuum, no exhaust gas entering the intake stream, thus no effect on running condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Made sure it was not the wires, yep, its the unit its self. As for unplugging it and driving around the block, that would not happen, the moment you unplug it, it stalls (Even if you have the RPMs up) stalls right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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