subie94 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) I'm looking at a 97 Outback 5 spd,2.5 with about 200k for 1k (has it listed as whole parts car for best offer) and seller says it leaks from the top of the fuel pump.how common is it to leak from the hose connections (metal) or could it just be the hose itself ? That'd be sweet if i could just trim the fuel hose an inch or two instead of replacing pump.. He bought a fuel pump but hasn't installed it yet.also just needs a small section of leftside rear rocker.interior is beautiful.he's original owner and said he has had it serviced every 3k miles (oil changes mostly),new brake lines,rear brakes/rotors,new muffler,belts (including timing belt),new alt and battery and one wheel bearing up front.(will post pics in a bit..) oh and he said he had the head Gasket problem taken care of at about 100k.all work done was done buy Soob Dealer i believe.. Edited August 19, 2011 by subie94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 the fuel pumps aren't a big deal to work with. if he's already got a new one and you have to go in there anyway, just replace it and whatever hose is bad. if it looks easy and obvious once you're in there, then yeah skip all that and clip the hose if that'll work. my guess is that's not the issue though. hard to say when with just third or fourth hand words to go by - but sounds like the fuel lines might be rusting out - and leaking. not a big deal still, i'd just replace all the fuel line that's rusty. replace it with rubber fuel hose if you have to. it's also due for a timing belt change. at 200,000 miles it needs all new pulleys, i bet they're all original and not in great shape. ebay timing kits are $160, i just bought one for this exact same engine two weeks ago. has all new pulleys, tensioner, and belt. interference engine, if the belt breaks, you'll most likely have bent valve$$$$. timing belt replacement runs $400-$700 at a shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 That's the thing,he said timing belt was done.didn't mention pulleys though.yeeah,not to thrilled about the fact that it's a interference engine.. I wonder if i was to go to the dealership that did the work,if they'd be able to give me the records of all work done on it..? Can't see why not,not like i'm asking for personal records of previous owner.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If it's leaking on top of the tank, and he says it's the pump, then it's the metal fuel lines that come out of the top of the passenger side sender. Easy to replace IF you can get the bolts that hold the sender into the tank out. They are tiny, rusty, and snap/strip easily. I have had to use a torch on them to get them out in the past. Not very fun using a oxy/acetylene torch to heat bolts up on a leaking gas tank. The gas tanks often rust through where the filler neck and vent hose nipples are welded to it, which is right next to the fuel pump sender. Tanks are dealer-only, expensive, and you have to drop the rear crossmember/differential/exhaust to get them out. Rusty trail of tears doing that job. If you flip the rear passenger seat back forward, you can pull up the rear floor behind it and there's an acess panel with phillips screws holding it on. Take that off and you'll see the fuel sender, and will be able to see where the gas is leaking from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 yeah,he already had that panel off and said he tried stopping leak and it looked like he just put a couple more clamps were rubber hose hooks to sending unit.. which cause me to think it's just hose cracked at the end..just hope there's slack to cut some off if that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Here's where it's leaking from approx..you can see that he used like 3 clamps on two of the three connections to try and stop leak...and it looks like smaller hose is missing clamp. Oh and for the worry some part..nuts are breaking apart from rust.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The metal pipe coming out of the sending unit is rusted through, it's unlikely to be the hose. You also don't want to yank too much on that hose, it's hooked to a rusty pipe that runs across over the tank to the other side. You need to get those nuts off the studs on the tank without snapping the studs or stripping the nuts, then put a new/bettter sending unit in. Those are the nuts I've had to use a torch on. I wouldn't recommend it, but it was a last ditch effort to save the tank. They can be a huge pain in the rump roast. An inductive heater would be better, they make them where it has a coil on the end of the tool that you wrap around the nut, and it heats the nut up without flame or sparks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 That's a HUGE mess. Can of worms.... unless you are very experienced with rusty fasteners and repairing what WILL inevitably break durring that process you have a steep learning curve. If it were me - I would probably just drop the tank, fab a new mount ring, and weld it into the tank. If it's that rusty on the top of the tank - I would be looking real close at the rest of the car - it will not be long for this world I should think. How many more years could it logically be kept on the road? Might not be worth the effort - every thing you touch will just snap off in the process of either repairing that fuel pump mount ring or removing the tank..... If it's me - I would just walk away. But then we don't have that level of rediculousness here on the west coast. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 That's a HUGE mess. Can of worms.... unless you are very experienced with rusty fasteners and repairing what WILL inevitably break durring that process you have a steep learning curve. If it were me - I would probably just drop the tank, fab a new mount ring, and weld it into the tank. If it's me - I would just walk away. But then we don't have that level of rediculousness here on the west coast. GD That gas tank is about normal for the 95-99's around here, they're all like that so you can't hold out for a different car expecting it to be better. New England teaches you how to deal with rust, because it destroys all cars more than 5 years old. When you have to regularly use a torch to work on cars in a dealership, you know the salt is evil. The fuel pump mount ring is usually fine if you're careful not to snap the studs off when getting those nuts out. Heat, a good 6 point socket, and an impact driver usually get them loose. There's a whole skillset for the task of taking apart terminally rusted parts without "inevitably" breaking them, you just have to be patient and know the limits of force you can put on a corroded part. Dropping the tank is hell because all the bolts that hold in the subframe and rear diff are rusty and liable to break the captured nuts loose in the body. You don't drop the tank if you can help it. And if you do drop it, you better put in a new one and all the metal fuel and evap pipes and brake lines above and hidden behind it because they will all crumble. The tanks usually rot through where the rubber hoses from the fuel filler neck and the vent hook to it right next to the fuel pump sender. You get evap codes and a leak when you fill the tank up. Again, all of them are this way, and that's why the 95-99's are common in the junkyards right now. Earlier ones are non-existant. Did subaru ever switch to plastic tanks on the newer ones? That would be a huge improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) well i did buy it...the rest of it isn't bad.couple spots of rust on fender edge and a small section of rocker to patch. i looked at it twice and it didn't look like to bad of a job at first but it wasn't till i got it home and looked into it more that i found out how bad the nuts are rusted oh and also found out where exactly it's leaking from.one tube has a bad rust hole.. so i'll soak the fasteners in PB Blaster and see if i can carefully remove em.. otherwise,i was thinking of calling the dearlership and see how much it would cost.(without dropping the tank) Edited August 21, 2011 by subie94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 found out where exactly it's leaking from.one tube has a bad rust hole.. that was my suspicion. sounds like the fuel lines might be rusting out - and leaking. great comments above about working with rusted fasteners - those that have done it a bunch could probably get them out. but they are going to be tough. i've never tried it on these specifically and i may not be a good idea with gas fumes and all present but if you could mitigate that issue you could weld a nut to the rusty nuts. i've had that work tons of times, particularly on such non-structural style nuts as these. clean the rust off, get a nut larger than the one on there and weld it over top of the old nut, taking care not to prevent a socket from getting over the new nut. then use a socket wrench like normal. if you can get a good weld it'll come out. by welding you're also running it through some heat cycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 i just recently had to loosen the same little tiny nuts on my car (and a parts car) and i managed to do it without breaking anything...(north central WI, plenty of salt rust here...) soak with PB, let sit, soak some more scrub with a small wire brush to break up and remove any loose flaking rust soak some more with PB these are supposed to be 10mm nuts - due to the rust, i couldnt get a regular 10mm socket on mine, i used a 10mm extractor type socket (made by Irwin) to get mine loose. do NOT torque on these things! Gently, grasshopper. soak, try to break free, soak some more, try to break free, repeat as needed, eventually all of mine did come loose - without using any heat - work slowly, if it starts to feel stiff, back off a little, soak with more PB, hit with the wire brush, soak again...slow is key, if you go trying to torque them off quickly, you WILL break something. re the hoses - center one is the main line to the engine... small one i believe is the crossover line, and the other large one should be the return line...(i could have those backwards tho) there is not a lot of "extra" hose available, so if the ends of those hoses look bad (cracked, chewed up from the extra clamps, etc), plan on replacing the whole length of hose... if the metal line under the car looks pretty bad (which i will bet it does), buy about 6ft of 5/16 hose, run from the pump plate, down and across the car (zip tie the rubber line to the old metal line), and back up inside under the seat bottom on drivers side (if these run the same as my 1990 does) - cut the metal line inside, slide the rubber hose over the metal line about 2 inches worth and use at least 2 clamps to secure & prevent leaking. (place the clamp screws on opposite sides of the line) it does work, i have done it several times on various cars - both EA82's and 1st gen Legacy. Good Luck, and remember - slow and easy on those nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 soaked cleaned and soaked again and even with smallest extractor socket (8mm won't catch and if i try to much,it'll just round it worse) screw it,it's getting towed to garage...not taking a chance of breaking something beyond my knowledge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Ask them if they have an inductive heater for loosening rusted nuts. It uses a high powered magnetic field to warm up the steel in the nut. Here's a demo video of the tool: http://www.theinductor.com/index.php?m=41 Then they can use an impact driver to get the nuts loose. Edited August 22, 2011 by WoodsWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 i called em at like 5pm (it's been there since noon) and tech was still working on it (soaking,etc) and should be all set by tomorrow.service adviser said it wouldn't effect cost either. i should have em change gear oil in trans (or check it at least) while driving it home,i thought i was hearing a gear noise only while on the gas and in gear or if i down shifted.kinda a whirring noise..i had a 92 Leg that i had to run a little heavier weight cause of a throw out bearing (or something like that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 well the pump was replaced and was told some other disturbing news..tank is pretty rusty..$400ish for new tank (dealer price) i may just drive it for a bit and if the tank is really bad,i may sell for parts unless i could get it replaced cheaply..Interior is in perfect shape (well except for the cargo cover which doesn't roll up),body is pretty good (couple spots along rear fenders and a section of rocker on one side) sure it has 200K but it doesn't look it..well kept up by original owner.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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