New 2012 Subarus

[Rooster2]

SOA sent me an email advertising the Impreza line for 2012, prolly others on this forum got the same email? The car looks great. It is now powered by a 2.0 litre motor. The ad says they have not increased prices for 2012.

 

Also............my latest copy of Road & Track discusses all the new cars from all manufacturers. I read that SOA will introduce a small 2 seat sports car with the 2.0 litre motor, rear drive only. The sketch picture looked great. The article stated that the car appeared originally some time ago as a Toyota concept car, but now it is a Subaru. No name announcement for the car. Retail intro is slated for early 2012. I am thinking this car may be about the size of a Mazda Miada. Anyone know anything more about this new model?

[Twitch de la Brat]

Search the interwebz for the Toyota FT-86.

Same car, and they're releasing new specs and info on it fairly often now, so

you may be able to find what you're seeking through some search-fu.

 

Also, I was perusing an article on the new Imp, and Subaru has done away with

the EJ.

So, I'm thinking we may need a new section.

A lot of the technologies may transfer, but I'm pretty sure the new engine

design is too far off to keep in the same boat as the EJ series.

 

RIP EJ

 

Twitch

 

PS:This does apply, as the 2012 model year is the beginning of a completely

new era in Subaru's history.

[987687]

Sea boat as the EJ series.

 

RIP EJ

 

Twitch

 

PS:This does apply, as the 2012 model year is the beginning of a completely

new era in Subaru's history.

 

The EJ line has been around now for 21 years. It's about time they move on to the next engine, the EJ isn't going anywhere. And in a market where engines need to be more powerful, more efficient, longer lasting, etc. It's important they make something new and improved that can grow.

I'm all for it.

Hell, I'm glad car's don't still have an ea82....

[tallwelder81]

more powerful, yes. longer lasting/more reliable, no.

easier for owners to maintain themselves, and work on minor problems? NO.

its just gone downhill since the ea81.

 

and really, am i the ONLY person who thinks 300hp is more than enough?

people are paying 20,000 to 50,000 for those extra 2 hundred or 3 hundred horsepower. and WHY do you want or need 5, 6, 7 hundred or more? im not saying im one of those grandmas who thinks driving fast is for drunk high school trash.

i LIKE to have power. but ive DRIVEN 130 or even 145 in american muscle. its really not that amazing. the amazing thing is how fast the fuel needle drops, and the weight loss in your wallet everytime you go to the gas station.

 

bugattis dont even look that cool anymore.

500hp ferraris and lambos werent enough? 12 cylinders werent enough?

well then with that attitude, a w-16 veyron just wont be enough to make your lil insecure weiner feel any more chuck-norris-ish.

a f350 with 4x4 and duallys just wont be big enough for your daily stop at the espresso stand and cruising the strip mall.

 

the 2007 wrx sti was plenty powerful. when do we reach the point of actually ACKNOWLEDGING, gee, my neighbor has a cool car with plenty of power, maybe mortgaging my house and making payments at high interest for TWICE as many years as the car will even seem cool and fresh, maybe thats just not gonna make me happy, or make my life seem any better.

hmmmmmm......

 

so to be clear, this isnt a rant at those of you who dropped a turbo 2.5 in your 80s EA sooby. this is a rant at the insecure little J/Os who feel a need to pay more for a literally 8-litre engine, than they paid for their college degree. all winning a pro drag race proves these days, is that you have more money to waste on a car that cant even steer, or take you anywhere interesting.

 

so blehhhh!!!

[tallwelder81]

and just for those wondering, ive felt that way for decades. but what more recently reminded me, is this:

my friends mom doesnt own a house. doesnt own land. doesnt have a retirement fund, or any savings worth mentioning. but she just traded in her very nice, very comfortable, very good condition 2008 mustang GT, for a 2012 mustang gt cobra or whatever they are called. it was like 68,000.

 

and why? her mustang gt, it was fast, id bet my left arm that she never used more than 90% of the potential, im sure she had it up to 120 or 130mph for a couple miles once or twice in the 4 years she owned it. okay, great. that was fun im sure.

 

but here youve got a nice, respectable, fast good looking car, worth maybe a years income, after basic living expenses. youve owned it about 3.5 years, and still never REALLY used up its full potential, performance-wise.

 

but now, you feel a need to <keep in mind you still dont own a house or property, or have any rainy day savings> go out and trade that car you havent even pushed to the limit, for a car more than twice as expensive. maybe 2.5 times the price.

call me a dumbas$, but i just dont see the motivation for a choice like that.

 

how often have you been thru the parking lot of a dumpy, welfare craphole of a section 8 apartment complex, and saw 5 or 10 cars that must have at LEAST 35 grand dumped in them? granted, its "ghetto fancy", like 22" rims and such. says a lot about the current mindset of your average americans these days. meanwhile half of them are on foodstamps, complaining how expensive gas and rent and groceries and toilet paper have gotten lately??

cry me a river, genius.

if anyone takes offense at my rant, kiss me where the sun dont shine.

[987687]

I'm happy to say, these rants don't apply to me. I have a nice happy running ea81, and an ej22 with over 300k miles still churning along.

But ya, I do agree it would suck working on the new FB***motors. Hopefully by them I'm rich enough to pay someone to do it for me

[Subaru_dude]

The FB engines are practically immune to headgasket problems, have an easy to access water pump AND use a timing chain which will practically last the life of the car. Why is that so bad?

[987687]

The FB engines are practically immune to headgasket problems, have an easy to access water pump AND use a timing chain which will practically last the life of the car. Why is that so bad?

 

Jump ahead to 2025. You gen one for $600 because it has 300k miles, the timing chain is loose and slapping around. And needs replaced. Also, one of the vtec actuators won't work right.

 

Not only will this cost a fortune to replace, it requires a huge skillset. It's not like an ej22 where you just slap on a new timing belt and role for another 100k miles.

[95legwagon]

isnt vtec honda? lol i dont think subarus will ever get the vtec thing goin for them..... ( i dont even know how vtec works) :/ but yea i agree 100% with the 300k miles timing chain replacment...... wouldnt be the first engine that has a timing chain that needs replacing........ and the chains are prolly WAY more expensive to buy the chain than the belt.....

[987687]

isnt vtec honda? lol i dont think subarus will ever get the vtec thing goin for them..... ( i dont even know how vtec works) :/ but yea i agree 100% with the 300k miles timing chain replacment...... wouldnt be the first engine that has a timing chain that needs replacing........ and the chains are prolly WAY more expensive to buy the chain than the belt.....

 

I said vtec because I couldn't remember what subaru calls their dual valve timing system. AVCS or whatever it is.

[1-3-2-4]

Yeah it's AVCS

 

Active

Valve

Control

System

[eulogious]

Are you guys really not that confident in your ability to adapt and triumph over your enemy? Are you THAT afraid of "new" technology? Wow.

 

This stuff doesn't scare me at all. Ya, there will be new procedures and tricks to work on this newer stuff, but it's still a freaking internal combustion engine. It's not a rocket, so rocket science really doesn't apply. At the end of the day, it will still follow all the same rules as every other motor does. Sure there will probably be some problems with the new engines, but it took subaru how long to rectify the HG problems with the 2.5's?

 

Timing chains are nothing new either. Toyota's have had chains for YEARS, and you don't see toyota owners seriously complaining about how difficult it is to do or how much parts cost etc. VTEC, hasn't that been around for years as well? I haven't really heard of any horror stories involving VTEC, so it can't be all THAT bad.

 

I am sure that people made the same comments when subaru introduced the EJ back in the day, when FI was really in it's infancy. This is nothing new guys, so no need to freak out about how this is a "bad" thing. Even if the motor has some problems, it's good to see subaru making a good, efficient motor that they can build off of and improve, just like they did with the EJ. I am all for new technology!

[Fairtax4me]

Agree with Subaru _dude. At 300k miles the engine probably won't be worth putting a new chain on. The car will be beat to hell and probably ready for the scrap heap.

Emissions standards, which are constantly changing, will make these engines virtually obsolete by the time they get that sort of mileage, if they make it that far. Keep in mind, car makers these days have figured out that a car designed to last forever makes them no money. Cars are designed to be disposable, ten years and 150k miles is about the limit for the average car these days, then it's all downhill from there. And that's what Subaru is aiming for by becoming "more mainstream".

 

I really don't see a downside to the FB. There's no need to even get under the car to change the oil if you use a fluid evacuator. The only other things that will need regular maintenance are the accessory belt and the air filter.

Spark plugs are generally good for 100k miles these days. The timing chain eliminates the need for regular belt changes, which were 105k mile anyway on the EJ.

Head gaskets, if they are a major issue, won't be any more difficult than the EJ. You just have to remove an aluminum plate rather then a plastic plate to get access to timing components. The only way I can see this being bad, is if the engine is a complete flop and all of them throw rods at 75k miles.

[987687]

Why should a car not last over 300k miles? My 98 has 240k, and the motor has over 300. It was completely worth putting a new timing belt on. Because now I have a car to drive around...

[danbennett2u]

Is the main argument here timing chains vs belts? As eulogious mantioned, Toyota has used them forever and older ones have a great reputation. Also isnt the beloved EA81 chain driven? I dont see what the issue here is. By 2025 any actual new technology will no longer be new, and tips on how to fix everything will be easy to find, and there will be junkyards with used parts to source for cheap.

 

I see no problem as long as Subaru has made an attempt to keep everything reasonably robust. Companies that build their reputation on reliability and longevity suffer when that reputation takes a hit, so Subaru would be downright stupid to cut costs on any critical parts. Its a new unproven engine yes, but I am not going to complain about near 40mpg in an AWD car with a useable power to weight ratio unless time shows major design flaws.

 

I won't consider a car with a EJ25D for several reasons (and it wasnt the first in the EJ series). I would love one of the H6 models though which came out later. Just because an engine is a newer design doesn't mean it will be more problematic or expensive to maintain than a series that has been around.

[987687]

Also isnt the beloved EA81 chain driven?

 

Nope, the cam is driven directly with a gear off the crankshaft.

[danbennett2u]

Ah ok, well I knew it didnt have a timing belt. Well I guess the rest of my statement still stands.

[tallwelder81]

actually, danbennet, thats where youre wrong.

 

by 2025ad, robots will be using humans for fuel, and only keanu reeves can save us.

[danbennett2u]

lol either that or the world starts to fall apart in a few months and tidal waves wipe out most of civilization right?

[Subaru_dude]

Head gaskets, if they are a major issue, won't be any more difficult than the EJ. You just have to remove an aluminum plate rather then a plastic plate to get access to timing components. The only way I can see this being bad, is if the engine is a complete flop and all of them throw rods at 75k miles.

 

That's true, the head gaskets shouldn't be anymore difficult but there's absolutely no oil or coolant passages going from the block to the heads. I'm ASSUMING there must be external lines (either rubber or metal [hopefully metal]) going from the heads to the block. That's a neat design ain't it??

[987687]

That's true, the head gaskets shouldn't be anymore difficult but there's absolutely no oil or coolant passages going from the block to the heads. I'm ASSUMING there must be external lines (either rubber or metal [hopefully metal]) going from the heads to the block. That's a neat design ain't it??

 

How did you find out there's no oil passages in the head gaskets?

External lines would suck. Ever had an egr tube not want to come off??

[Twitch de la Brat]

That's true, the head gaskets shouldn't be anymore difficult but there's absolutely no oil or coolant passages going from the block to the heads. I'm ASSUMING there must be external lines (either rubber or metal [hopefully metal]) going from the heads to the block. That's a neat design ain't it??

 

Oh dear god.

Please tell me that's conjecture.

Because I can tell you, head work will become a severe chore if they have

externalized the oil and coolant passages.

Ever try to break loose an EGR pipe? (As was 987687 mentioned)

I can only imagine 10 years down the road in a rust state those lines are going

to breaking and rusting to bits...

 

Twitch

[Subaru_dude]

Oh dear god.

Please tell me that's conjecture.

Because I can tell you, head work will become a severe chore if they have

externalized the oil and coolant passages.

Ever try to break loose an EGR pipe? (As was 987687 mentioned)

I can only imagine 10 years down the road in a rust state those lines are going

to breaking and rusting to bits...

 

Twitch

 

I am only ASSUMING there must be external lines. In one of the many online descriptions of the new engines it stated there were no passages between the heads and block, eliminating the possiblity of head gasket failure. However I didn't consider how much of a pain rusted up metal lines would be... oh well. You'll probably never need to pull them off anyway... (another assumption).

 

*Update* Apparently I'm completely wrong. There ARE passages for coolant and oil just like all cars. I have no idea where I read that info. I have suddenly lost trust in this new design... we'll just have to see if they hold up.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Subaru_dude