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Wagonstien taking fully independent suspension to the next level


Ioku
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So I've made a good bit of progress lately.

 

Got the engine finished and ready to go in

 

DSCF0381.jpg

 

I also swaped the 23 spline stub shafts in the D/R trans with the 25 spline shafts form the FT4wd trans so I can just use any Legacy or Impreza front axles instead of trying to find FWD Impreza axles.

 

I forgot to get a pic of the inside of the trans but here is a comparison pic of the 4WD pinion and FT4wd pinion shaft

4WD top FT4wd bottom

DSCF0383.jpg

 

I'd like to try welding a 4.44 pinion to the FT4wd shaft and using it in the D/R case but need to see what the machining will cost.

 

and 23 and 25 spline shafts these swap right over no other parts needed.

 

DSCF0384.jpg

 

I then got the trany in, installed the front axles and drive shaft and hooked up the brake lines and installed the hub adapters.

 

with these my bolt patter is now 5x4.5

DSCF0388.jpg

 

Also extended the shifter linkages and got the hooked up, but decided to do something different for the 4wd linkage I put it between the gear shifter and ebrake, like it would be in most trucks and suv's, and I have something special planed for the Hi Lo shifting, but thats staying secret for right now.

 

DSCF0387.jpg

 

DSCF0389.jpg

 

And cut out the fenders put the wheels and tires of and saw how she sat.

 

DSCF0394.jpg

 

DSCF0395.jpg

 

DSCF0396.jpg

 

oh and this came in recently, SJR adapter plate, now I just need to file the holes in my fly wheel and I can install the engine.

 

DSCF0397.jpg

Edited by Ioku
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Again, that's the joint being used to control axle rotation and placement, not to support the weight of the vehicle. That bracket mounts over the top of a solid axle differential and the coil overs would mount out on the axle tube, not on top of the links. As the axle tries to twist back or forward under power, the links and joints are being put in tension and compression, not side load.

 

After doing some looking around, there's a few different ratings for rod ends. You've got static load in the radial and axial directions and dynamic load in both those. Static load is the max strength for it trying to hold something in position without it rotating, dynamic is the amount of load it can hold while rotating without wearing out prematurely.

 

Axial load is the side loading of the joint, in line with the bolt hole going through it. Rod ends seem to average about 1/2 the static axial load rating of their radial load rating. So if your joint is rated to 28k static radial, then it's about or less than 14k static axial. Dynamic loads are rated less than static loads because they take wear into account. If you can find the dynamic load ratings of the upper joint you're using that would be good.

 

Going from a chart SKF has, depending on the material of the joint the max dynamic load is anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3's of the static load.

Edited by WoodsWagon
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theres a familiar tool!There was a time that I thought vice grips were only for locking tailgate struts.Then I learned that they are also extremely useful for transferring the intense heat of welding to your hand...

 

a more permanent solution is to get a thin piece of metal as long as the travel of the strut and fold it over the the top of the strut so when its in place it locks the strut.Just make the piece loose enough that you can slip it on or off relatively easy but tight enough that it locks the strut. Bonus is that you can paint the piece of metal to look like it belongs,and it frees up the vice grips for more important things....like transfering the intense heat of welding to your hand.:eek:

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Again, that's the joint being used to control axle rotation and placement, not to support the weight of the vehicle. That bracket mounts over the top of a solid axle differential and the coil overs would mount out on the axle tube, not on top of the links. As the axle tries to twist back or forward under power, the links and joints are being put in tension and compression, not side load.

 

After doing some looking around, there's a few different ratings for rod ends. You've got static load in the radial and axial directions and dynamic load in both those. Static load is the max strength for it trying to hold something in position without it rotating, dynamic is the amount of load it can hold while rotating without wearing out prematurely.

 

Axial load is the side loading of the joint, in line with the bolt hole going through it. Rod ends seem to average about 1/2 the static axial load rating of their radial load rating. So if your joint is rated to 28k static radial, then it's about or less than 14k static axial. Dynamic loads are rated less than static loads because they take wear into account. If you can find the dynamic load ratings of the upper joint you're using that would be good.

 

Going from a chart SKF has, depending on the material of the joint the max dynamic load is anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3's of the static load.

yay, a bunch of math jargon that is different from every manufacture. Plain and simple.It's gonna work.And they are replaceable parts.You are splitting hairs.It is not a race car.

I posted the link to rescind MY statement earlier in the thread.And spread more chaos evidently.

I think it looks cool.Curious to see how it works.

CHEERS Ioku!

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^^far from jargon. I think it's cool that you designed your own control arms with nice welds. I think it's very lame that you reject and overlook the input from other board members.

 

My experience has been that if there is any question about the feasibility of a proposition, that you should probably pay attention to that and thank the member for their concern. Even if you don't follow their advice (which this thread is fraught with) you can take the high road. That's what this board is all about. Practical applied input.

 

Maybe you could ask the objecting members what they would do in place of the lateral-links. You know - incase the thing does fail. You'd have a backup plan.

 

On another note, it does sit very nicely as you have designed it. We'll see how it holds up under dynamic loading.

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^^far from jargon. I think it's cool that you designed your own control arms with nice welds. I think it's very lame that you reject and overlook the input from other board members.

 

My experience has been that if there is any question about the feasibility of a proposition, that you should probably pay attention to that and thank the member for their concern. Even if you don't follow their advice (which this thread is fraught with) you can take the high road. That's what this board is all about. Practical applied input.

 

Maybe you could ask the objecting members what they would do in place of the lateral-links. You know - incase the thing does fail. You'd have a backup plan.

 

On another note, it does sit very nicely as you have designed it. We'll see how it holds up under dynamic loading.

 

I think your getting me and monstaru mixed up I never blew off WoodsWagon's explanation for the loading of the ball joints its good info and I'll look into it, but for right now my plan is to get this finnished and running and then test it out I'm breaking new ground here as I don't know of anyone else that has built a suspension like this on a Subaru and am planning on having some failures and needing to make changes. I've just never been one to sit and crunch a bunch of numbers to see if something will work, I'm more of the build it test it break it learn what went wrong and improve form there.

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^^far from jargon. I think it's cool that you designed your own control arms with nice welds. I think it's very lame that you reject and overlook the input from other board members.

 

My experience has been that if there is any question about the feasibility of a proposition, that you should probably pay attention to that and thank the member for their concern. Even if you don't follow their advice (which this thread is fraught with) you can take the high road. That's what this board is all about. Practical applied input.

 

Maybe you could ask the objecting members what they would do in place of the lateral-links. You know - incase the thing does fail. You'd have a backup plan.

 

On another note, it does sit very nicely as you have designed it. We'll see how it holds up under dynamic loading.

 

Not my car...:)

Oh how I just love keyboard builders.People that take on projects like this are from two schools.Those that are pretty sure it will work.And folks that think it needs to be engineered like a spacecraft.(and never finish)

 

Woodswagon:

I have also seen heim joints layed down like that when utilized in 4 link setups.Defenitely weight bearing.As a matter of fact bouncing and jumping , and, and, and....

cheers

 

still looks good,cheers

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Good job on the build. I don't mean to be nagative in previous posts. If it work, it works. You seem to have good fab skills and I'm following your thread for that reason.

 

I'm no keyboard builder, either. I might be very concise and plan differently than just jumping in and figuring it out, but I have a lot of respect for people who can jump right in and cut some sheet metal. I would never give advice on something I didn't have experience in. Oh, and I finish ALL of my endeavors. That's where persistence and "engineering" come in very handy.

 

Good luck on the project. I'll be watching intently.

Edited by kanurys
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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

I know its been awhile but its time for an update I've been both busy and lazy and haven't gotten around to it.

 

I Got front and rear tube bumpers built and a roof rack and winch installed

 

DSCF0456.jpg

 

DSCF0412.jpg

 

I also got the engine in and running along with the onboard air system, converted an ac comp to a air compressor.

 

DSCF0458.jpg

 

and had to swap out the old front springs for some off a supra because the old one couldn't hold the weight once the engine was in. And added some limiting straps

 

DSCF0453.jpg

 

I'll tray and get some better and more updated pics soon.

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My thoughts exactly, I would pay good money for a setup like this...

 

You say that....but I bet there wouldn't be a single who would pay fair value for a long travel suspension setup for an old gen subaru

 

A similar performing kit from Total Chaos for an '86-95 Toyota truck/4Runner costs about $2k. And that's just upper and lower A-arms and hardware:

95200.jpg

 

This would require custom knuckles and engine crossmember too, at the very least.

 

 

 

 

That said, I think it's awesome. That camber change through the range of motion kind of makes me nervous, but it might still function well. I'm anxious to see how it performs, and how those front axles hold up :headbang:

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You say that....but I bet there wouldn't be a single who would pay fair value for a long travel suspension setup for an old gen subaru

 

A similar performing kit from Total Chaos for an '86-95 Toyota truck/4Runner costs about $2k. And that's just upper and lower A-arms and hardware:

 

 

This would require custom knuckles and engine crossmember too, at the very least.

 

Very true, for me to come up with a bolt on kit like this I would have to get at least 4K for it and it still might not be worth it and I don't see many people wanting to pay 4 times the value of the car for a suspension kit.

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Very true, for me to come up with a bolt on kit like this I would have to get at least 4K for it and it still might not be worth it and I don't see many people wanting to pay 4 times the value of the car for a suspension kit.

 

I'll start saving my pennies

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