Deener Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hey All, I am getting a little knocking/maybe a lifter type sound (?) when I am in low RPM up hills/under load in my 93 Loyale. I completely resealed this engine about 12000km ago and it runs really smooth and clean (proud of the zero leaks!!!), tune up parts are all still shiny new since the reseal and the engine still has less than 170k on it. I haven't actually tried anything yet, I am just putting out the feelers for some suggestions. She rattles sometimes even when it's a slight incline, but mostly on the lower end of the RPM's. Stomping on the throttle doesn't help either. Sometimes it seems fine though. Also seems to happen more when it's warm than cold. I have read the following possibilites but would like some EA82 opinions: - Timing issues (but mine is bang on with new tight belts - would retarding it help?). - Bad gas (I run the cheap octane all the time, from different stations doesn't seem to make a difference, haven't tried higher octane yet). - Dirty injector (intake looks sparkling clean). - Oil Starvation (rebuilt the oil pump while I was in there). - Plugged Air intake (brand new, clean filter in place, intake boot is clean). It's not the typical tick you'd get from 'air in the oil' type thing. It's a similar rattle sound that happens when a car 'deisels' after shutoff. Again, mostly only under a load/up hill but it seems to come and go... Dean Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 ...- Bad gas (I run the cheap octane all the time, from different stations doesn't seem to make a difference, haven't tried higher octane yet)... This is a Good Idea to Start. Other could be the Timing, maybe it is a Li'l advanced. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 ya man, sounds like you are pinging. play with the advance a little, try higher octane maybe. glad to hear you got it all together RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Cool, thanks guys. Will do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) This sure sounds like ping. High load, low RPM is when it is most likely to happen. Try knocking back the timing 2 deg, or put in high octane gas. (Chevron used to be the best in the Vancouver area, according to the guy that ran the knock test engine at the refinery I worked at many years ago.) If that helps, then try to fix it properly. In my experience, these things don't ping even when advanced 2 deg., so there is something wrong somewhere. It might be running lean. Clean the MAF (I know you know how! Thanks again.) Try one of those magic decokers (Seafoam?) that you run through the fuel system. Maybe the injector is a bit iffy? It might be running hot. Where is the temperature gauge when this happens? How is the rad? Clean and tidy, or all corroded and bent fins, full of bugs? Good luck. Rob. Edited September 9, 2011 by robm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hey Rob, Yeah the rad is perfect, new coolant, oem tstat, no leaks, perfect temp (never really raises above 1/4, if it does its ever so slight), fan comes on religiously. I am going to fill er up with the Chevron 94 (no ethanol) this weekend and see what happens. I don't think it's running lean, plugs (NGK) look nice. The ping isn't even that bad, but I notice it from time to time with low rpm uphill. I just want it to stay perfect. You haven't seen this Loyale, it's the flagship of my fleet! It doesn't have a lick of rust on it, runs wicked smooth and quiet, perfect interior, shiny engine bay (polished it up when I had it apart for the reseal), smells new inside still, all maintenance records up to about 18000k ago, including routine oil changes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 When you did the headgaskets, did you clean the carbon buildup off the piston tops? That carbon buildup does 2 things. Raises compression, and glows redhot like charcoal. Both will exacerbate pinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) It might not be running lean continuously, just under transient conditions as you accelerate, WOT, from low RPM. It won't show on the plugs. Water injection helps, too. I have a bike (Yamaha SR500) that used to rattle like a can of dimes unless it was raining, even on Chevron 94 octane. But you won't be getting that sort of weather for a while, it sounds like. The MAF is the only device I can think of that will cause it to run lean on a transient, as it won't respond as fast if it is dirty. A couple squirts with the can of brake cleaner won't hurt. If you did try to clean the carbon off the piston tops, and wound up with some bits that stick out and form hotspots, rather than a nice, even layer, this could give you trouble. This is where the magic "tune-up in a can" products come in, they are reputed to knock the crud out. Edited September 9, 2011 by robm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 My five speed Loyale does this sometimes if I forget to downshift and the RPMs get too low...load/hill, stomping on the gas does nothing until I say "oh, the shifter is in the wrong spot!". Not sure from your description, but it's not just 'lugging' a wee bit, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 FYI I filled up with premium over the weekend and that fixed it immediately. It was 100% a fuel quality issue, I tested it very thoroughly. I had been running Mohawk 87 for a long time and it had only been the last few months that I noticed the rattle, so I thought it was a mechanical issue. My five speed Loyale does this sometimes if I forget to downshift and the RPMs get too low...load/hill, stomping on the gas does nothing until I say "oh, the shifter is in the wrong spot!". Not sure from your description, but it's not just 'lugging' a wee bit, is it? Nope, wasn't lugging...it was just rattling. This engine has really tight and high compression since the rebuild, can't remember the exact numbers but they were all within 1-3 psi of each other. When you did the headgaskets, did you clean the carbon buildup off the piston tops? That carbon buildup does 2 things. Raises compression, and glows redhot like charcoal. Both will exacerbate pinging. Absolutely. I won't put the engine back together without cleaning it. The pistons I used were in really good shape, no pits and barely any scorch marks (easy to clean even). When it went back together, any part I could reach got polished. Rob I don't know how to do a third quote but naw she wasn't running lean. Just needed a better fuel. Thanks for all the input guys! Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r81gsr95 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 FYI I filled up with premium over the weekend and that fixed it immediately. It was 100% a fuel quality issue, I tested it very thoroughly. I had been running Mohawk 87 for a long time and it had only been the last few months that I noticed the rattle, so I thought it was a mechanical issue. Nope, wasn't lugging...it was just rattling. This engine has really tight and high compression since the rebuild, can't remember the exact numbers but they were all within 1-3 psi of each other. Absolutely. I won't put the engine back together without cleaning it. The pistons I used were in really good shape, no pits and barely any scorch marks (easy to clean even). When it went back together, any part I could reach got polished. Rob I don't know how to do a third quote but naw she wasn't running lean. Just needed a better fuel. Thanks for all the input guys! Dean sounds like it was pinging on 87. glad to hear its running well on 94. Would hate to have to run that all the time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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