Prwa101 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Okay ive read the write up for the ea-ej swap sevrel timesand am feeling pretty good about it. and I finnly got my doner car, 93 legacey! But the one thing I'm feeling a little fuzzy on is the harness striping. I know there are guys on here that'll do if for about 200$ but.... I'm a poor guy, and will do just about anything to avoid spending money, (hence is why I fixed my girfreinds parents car in trade for the legacy I have now) so does anyone have a detailed guid of what all need to be striped out of the harness and what needs to be dubed in and where (for oil presure and such) from what ive read I should strip out everything that dosnt obtain to the motor and conected to the motor? Is this right? I have the fans for the legacy too, so I would leave that in the loom? Fuel pump relay, there's one already in my loyale along with the fuel pump, do I still need to wire in the legacy relay and pretty much swap out for it, and forget about the other one? Same goes for ingnition switch? Can the rad out of the legacy fit in the loyale? Or can it bult up like the legacy one does? if there's anything else I should know, just say! Anything would help a lot! Thanks! -PRWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) There is no hard and fast rules to these questions - you can or you cannot (to most of your questions) and it all depends on how you want to proceed and what is easiest for the given installation. They are each a little different with respect to the model/year the engine is going into as well as OBD-I vs. OBD-II swaps..... etc. It usually comes down to what is most convient depending on where you locate the ECU and what it is closest to - the fuel pump relay for example.... are you closer to the old relay or are you closer to the passenger kick-panel where you can simply intercept the fuel pump power wire and leave all the EJ relay/wireing intact? Personally I prefer to intercept the FP power lead at the kick-panel connector and just connect the lead from the EJ's FP relay. The EJ fans almost certainly will not fit. Also one of the goals of stripping the harness is to eliminate the fuse panel and all it's uneccesary circuits - if you keep the EJ fan wireing intact then you must scab in an inline fuse solution in place of the EJ's panel..... messy. Better to just intercept the EJ's relay ground for the cooling fan and power a new relay through your EJ piggy-back fuse panel solution (I prefer to use Painless Performance universal fuse blocks). The OBD-I harnesses are pretty messy and disorganized - they also have that @#$@#^$#ing SMJ (Super Main Junction)..... which has (last time I counted) 27 wires that have to be cut and soldered to eliminate it from the harness. Not a pleasant job and one of the reasons I charge more to do the OBD-I harnesses than for later models. If you have never done one before - block out about a week or possibly two to get your head around it. There are a LOT of wires and as soon as the tape comes off it starts to get overwhelming real fast. Many times I've had to walk away and get my head straight.... sometimes the most difficult task is just deciding what part of the harness to work on and what wires it's ok to cut and what you need to not touch. Even I make mistakes and have to correct them with solder and heat shrink. If you aren't comfortable with electricity, designing simple relay circuits, and basic soldering, etc - I say just pay to have it stripped. For most people that aren't familair it's probably going to end in frustration and none of us who strip these harnesses will "fix" one that's been half hacked apart already. At least I know I won't - I will send it right back. GD Edited September 9, 2011 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 There is no hard and fast rules to these questions - you can or you cannot (to most of your questions) and it all depends on how you want to proceed and what is easiest for the given installation. They are each a little different with respect to the model/year the engine is going into as well as OBD-I vs. OBD-II swaps..... etc. It usually comes down to what is most convient depending on where you locate the ECU and what it is closest to - the fuel pump relay for example.... are you closer to the old relay or are you closer to the passenger kick-panel where you can simply intercept the fuel pump power wire and leave all the EJ relay/wireing intact? Personally I prefer to intercept the FP power lead at the kick-panel connector and just connect the lead from the EJ's FP relay. The EJ fans almost certainly will not fit. Also one of the goals of stripping the harness is to eliminate the fuse panel and all it's uneccesary circuits - if you keep the EJ fan wireing intact then you must scab in an inline fuse solution in place of the EJ's panel..... messy. Better to just intercept the EJ's relay ground for the cooling fan and power a new relay through your EJ piggy-back fuse panel solution (I prefer to use Painless Performance universal fuse blocks). The OBD-I harnesses are pretty messy and disorganized - they also have that @#$@#^$#ing SMJ (Super Main Junction)..... which has (last time I counted) 27 wires that have to be cut and soldered to eliminate it from the harness. Not a pleasant job and one of the reasons I charge more to do the OBD-I harnesses than for later models. If you have never done one before - block out about a week or possibly two to get your head around it. There are a LOT of wires and as soon as the tape comes off it starts to get overwhelming real fast. Many times I've had to walk away and get my head straight.... sometimes the most difficult task is just deciding what part of the harness to work on and what wires it's ok to cut and what you need to not touch. Even I make mistakes and have to correct them with solder and heat shrink. If you aren't comfortable with electricity, designing simple relay circuits, and basic soldering, etc - I say just pay to have it stripped. For most people that aren't familair it's probably going to end in frustration and none of us who strip these harnesses will "fix" one that's been half hacked apart already. At least I know I won't - I will send it right back. GD very interesting.... and sounds very complex, ill start taking it out of the car and them ill decide if i want to do the whole thing haha. mk so if i were to send it out to someone, would i still want to label everything as im taking it out so it would be easyer for the harness stripper to work on it? how much do you charge? - its a 93 legacy ej22 going into a 90 loyale 5speed 4x4. could we work out a deal maybe? im more than willing to learn how to do this, and i learn fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I normally charge $250 for the OBD-I harnesses and $200 for the OBD-II harnesses through '99. I'm not sure how to work much of a deal here - I just don't have the time/space to sit you down with a harness and watch what you are doing and hope to get anything at all done while that's going on. If anything I would have to charge more to run a harness stripping class - it takes up half my garage to lay out a harness and dismantle it so getting anything else done while that's happening is pretty much futile. I don't mind helping with specific and localized questions (that's the point of this forum ) but I'm afraid if you want to strip the harness yourself you'll just have to dig in get your feet wet. Many people have done it with varying degree's of success and you get better every time you do one. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 I normally charge $250 for the OBD-I harnesses and $200 for the OBD-II harnesses through '99. I'm not sure how to work much of a deal here - I just don't have the time/space to sit you down with a harness and watch what you are doing and hope to get anything at all done while that's going on. If anything I would have to charge more to run a harness stripping class - it takes up half my garage to lay out a harness and dismantle it so getting anything else done while that's happening is pretty much futile. I don't mind helping with specific and localized questions (that's the point of this forum ) but I'm afraid if you want to strip the harness yourself you'll just have to dig in get your feet wet. Many people have done it with varying degree's of success and you get better every time you do one. GD Thats fine, im starting back up school at PSU real soon and so im going to be really busy.. although having a class that taught this would be awesome! not sure if id be able to afford it but still way cool! well if i come into some money to pay for my harness to be stripped ill let you know! but if i get it out and feel comfortable stripping it out then ill finish it my self and save some $$ ) okay then, a specific question that i hope isnt to broad.. you said that there are about 27 different wires in the loom that have to be soldered, are these wires being soldered to something else in the loom? could you tell me what these wires are? and what there being soldered to? prolly a lot of not its fine ) what all should be left on the harness (after) striping in for my 90 loyale? i have the wiring diagrams for a 92 legacy but cant find the 93? are they the same? i just found this link, not for a loyale for a bug. but would it still be the same principles? http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=136053 thanks! GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Thats fine, im starting back up school at PSU real soon and so im going to be really busy.. although having a class that taught this would be awesome! not sure if id be able to afford it but still way cool! well if i come into some money to pay for my harness to be stripped ill let you know! but if i get it out and feel comfortable stripping it out then ill finish it my self and save some $$ ) okay then, a specific question that i hope isnt to broad.. you said that there are about 27 different wires in the loom that have to be soldered, are these wires being soldered to something else in the loom? could you tell me what these wires are? and what there being soldered to? prolly a lot of not its fine ) The wires I was refering to are going to/from the SMJ (Super Main Junction) - it's a large connector that bolts together and joins a major section of the harness with another major section. I think it has something like 55 pins. Some of which are not applicable to a swap. I don't remember all the specific wires but many are for engine sensors that are required by the ECU and IIRC there's about 27 of them. That's just ONE of quite a few places that need wires cut and solderd to eliminate uneccesary connectors, etc. what all should be left on the harness (after) striping in for my 90 loyale? Off the top of my head: ECU Manifold sub-harness connectors Ignitor Cam sensor Crank sensor Knock sensor O2 sensor MAF sensor Alternator connections Grounds (one's used by remaining components) FP Relay Ignition Relay FP/Ignition power ECU power ECU backup power Power supply diode pack CEL ground wire VSS signal wire Neutral switch wire Start signal wire Tach signal wire I might be missing some..... as I said that's from memory. i have the wiring diagrams for a 92 legacy but cant find the 93? are they the same? Very similar. i just found this link, not for a loyale for a bug. but would it still be the same principles? http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=136053 thanks! GD That's not how we do them. We leave the harness as intact as possible - I don't end up with A through K when I do them. I end up with a single harness. . He's done WAY more hacking than needed.... well perhaps thats needed on a bug with the end in the back - but not going from Subaru to another Subaru. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 AWSOME!! im going to start taking the dash apart tomorrow and labeling things! im going to assume that you label the plugs with there numbers in the manual and maybe the name of the plug? i gotta say everyone who ive ever in countered on here has be really nice and very helpfull! thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 i just read in nux's write up about "a unplugged wire is the same as a cut wire?" so anything that is unplugged (other than the green one for running codes) under the dash needs to be striped out of the loom? clear to the ecu? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 The wires I was refering to are going to/from the SMJ (Super Main Junction) - it's a large connector that bolts together and joins a major section of the harness with another major section. I think it has something like 55 pins. Some of which are not applicable to a swap. I don't remember all the specific wires but many are for engine sensors that are required by the ECU and IIRC there's about 27 of them. That's just ONE of quite a few places that need wires cut and solderd to eliminate uneccesary connectors, etc. GD http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8917&stc=1&d=1315789727 "Move to front passenger seat. Jeesh... This is turning into a book. From the front passenger seat, find the wiring harness that comes through the center of the firewall near the center of the windshield. If you don't see where it goes through the firewall, keep removing heater components until you do, picture above. Once you find this bundle of wires, find where it Y's and goes left or right. Cut everything that goes to the right (passenger side, red line in picture above), there will be 50 or more wires here. Pull the remaining harness from the engine bay into the passenger compartment. " is this the spot in the picture where your talking about (SMJ)? where it makes a Y? the website says the red line is where you cut the harness to get rid of stuff. and the ones that need to be soldered are the ones that come from the engine bay that go to the right (in the picture) (orange lines) that are suppose to go back to the ecu and need to be soldered? i think im starting to understand this stuff i hope haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbeerd Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) the SMJ, as far as i can tell is the large gray connector in the picture below. Fortunately my ej251 swap doesnt have an SMJ like that. Theoretically you could eliminate it by cutting a wire off of it, say, pin25. Then you would cut corresponding pin25 from the other side and solder them together and repeat for all other wire pairs Edited September 12, 2011 by xbeerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 the SMJ, as far as i can tell is the large gray connector in the picture below. Fortunately my ej251 swap doesnt have an SMJ like that. Theoretically you could eliminate it by cutting a wire off of it, say, pin25. Then you would cut corresponding pin25 from the other side and solder them together and repeat for all other wire pairs yeah your right! that grey box is the smj. my mistake... mk so i do have the right concept down. -the ecu sends out a signal (or what ever that is sending) that has to come back to it, so thats why they have to be soldered there, so pretty much its making a loop. is there a list of all the pins that have to be looped (soldered) somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbeerd Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 there probably is. but, once you have the harness stripped down you'll be left with X amount of wires left on the SMJ, those wires then you cut (one at a time i would recommend) and solder, pin 1 to pin 1 (from each side of smj) pin 2 to pin 2, and so on. the SMJ doesnt have to be eliminated really. if i were you i would concentrate first on going thru the car and labeling all the connectors, and start removing them as necessary when youare 100%sure you dont need that connector. and eliminate the bulk of the wiring. i would probably label it with text labels like "cruise control" or "DRL" etc. rather than the numbers in the manual since you'd have to look up the name to see if you need it before you remove it anyways. you can go thru and label as you remove it from the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 there probably is. but, once you have the harness stripped down you'll be left with X amount of wires left on the SMJ, those wires then you cut (one at a time i would recommend) and solder, pin 1 to pin 1 (from each side of smj) pin 2 to pin 2, and so on. the SMJ doesnt have to be eliminated really. if i were you i would concentrate first on going thru the car and labeling all the connectors, and start removing them as necessary when youare 100%sure you dont need that connector. and eliminate the bulk of the wiring. i would probably label it with text labels like "cruise control" or "DRL" etc. rather than the numbers in the manual since you'd have to look up the name to see if you need it before you remove it anyways. you can go thru and label as you remove it from the car. ahhhhh, yeah im going to try and label everything as best as i can so i don't get something mixed up and **** my harness... mk this is all making way more sense!! ahhh so everything that is left on the smj after the strip, will be cut and re-soldered to its same pin, to eliminate the smj? makes more sense! but it really doesn't really have to be done? so i could just leave it after striping down the harness? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 You *could* leave the whole harness intact.... theoretically. But it would be a nightmare and a gigantic mess. Those of us that strip harnesses eleiminate things like the SMJ because they take up valuable real-estate and can't be pulled through firewall grommets, etc. Leaving crap like that in the harness is amature and messy. That's not what I look for in a proper swap. It doesn't meet the standards of electrical etiquette. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbeerd Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 im with you on that one. i'd lose that SMJ for sure. i was just getting a feeling that based on the conversation it might be over his head to do so (no offense to the OP by any means, thats just the feeling i got) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 non taken! haha. and yeah that makes a lot of sense! ill be taking the smj out like you said! and solder it up. im not to bad at it. -questions are the key to success, and so far im feeling much better about the harness stripping now that ive asked probably a million questions.. haha... seeing it in the picture on nux's web site through me off... i came across a file from him that tells exactly what needs to be taped into in the old ea harness after the strip and installation is started. anyone know where that is?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 The wires I was refering to are going to/from the SMJ (Super Main Junction) - it's a large connector that bolts together and joins a major section of the harness with another major section. I think it has something like 55 pins. Some of which are not applicable to a swap. I don't remember all the specific wires but many are for engine sensors that are required by the ECU and IIRC there's about 27 of them. That's just ONE of quite a few places that need wires cut and solderd to eliminate uneccesary connectors, etc. Off the top of my head: ECU Manifold sub-harness connectors Ignitor Cam sensor Crank sensor Knock sensor O2 sensor MAF sensor Alternator connections Grounds (one's used by remaining components) FP Relay Ignition Relay FP/Ignition power ECU power ECU backup power Power supply diode pack CEL ground wire VSS signal wire Neutral switch wire Start signal wire Tach signal wire I might be missing some..... as I said that's from memory. Very similar. That's not how we do them. We leave the harness as intact as possible - I don't end up with A through K when I do them. I end up with a single harness. . He's done WAY more hacking than needed.... well perhaps thats needed on a bug with the end in the back - but not going from Subaru to another Subaru. GD Okay made some major progress today on getting the harness out! But have a couple quistions. -in the picture I put up with the red line to the right of the T of the harness I've gotten to that point. On the right of the T looks to be just cruise control, heater and relays, and also stuff that lead to the back of the car. -can the harness be choped right there, to the right side of the T, like it shows in the picture (red line)? -by the ecu there's a goldish looking box that looks like another ecu, says HS atomatic electronic contorl. For the tranny? Cut it out? taking Fender off tomarro. To get the harness through the fire wall.(if I don't work) Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 well more progress! i have about half the intiror harness labeled, and almost all the engine bay harness lables and gettting ready to push in through the fire wall! i gotta say now that im actually pulling the harness its seeming easyer and easyer to actually strip it down to the main components. its pretty strait forward. -Prwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 harness completely removed and labeled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) HARNESS STRIPPING. -okay, I separated the harness into two parts at the smj so I don't fe over welled and lose my place, #1 harness, the part that came out of the drivers side fender by the batter. #2 harness, ecu and the rest of the bunch. I've stripped out of the #1 harness, headlights, ej fan, and a abs blug. Now I started on the main fuse panel that's under the hood, I've taken all the a/c relays an wires out of the harness. But now am a little confused. There's four clips left. What else gets striped out of the fuse box? It's hard to adentafie which wires go to what fuse. So any sugestion? image1.jpg Edited September 16, 2011 by Prwa101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 http://www.powerlabs.org/jdmsubaru.htm this link helped! Not going into the same car but still, with the stripping. -so any wires that don't lead back to the ECU can be cut out. Is pretty much what the link said. Sounds fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 http://www.numbchuxconversions.com/Files/Harness%20info.pdf this is a good file to have on hand! thanks nux! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 oksy do ive stripped a ton out so far and ive gotten to #1 theres two black boxes lables as fr-3315 and the other says illumi con unit. are these stripped out too?? i put up a picture but idk if itll work... #1 next is a white connector that i think leads to the rear harness? it plugs in to the right side of the car, near the floor/door along with a blue and black connector, strip out these? okay and the cruise control, i read somewhere where the ecu still needs some signal form it. so what needs to be done there? what wires need to be looped so the ecu still get a signal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 A total of three and a half says of solid harness stripping, and it's compleat now for my self (a compleat noon to this) I thought it was pretty easy and kinda fun! Haha. But I have a strong will to learn, and it prolly helped having it all in my room and working on it allday every day... Haha. Eat, sleep, and drink harness. now let's hope it starts. Haha. now to finish my parts list Aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91 subaru Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Im really curious to hear where this project ended up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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