What does it take to find that “perfect for you” Subaru?

[Stubies Subie]

What does it take to find that “perfect for you” Subaru? ……….. As the search continues.

 

I’m not sure what day to call this, I know I’ve been looking for at least 3 months, but haven’t been actively looking (ready to buy) until a couple of weeks ago, so with cash in pocket, join me as the search continues for the Holy Grail of the GL/Loyale line.

 

I’ve studied, asked questions, researched, and came up with a “list” so to speak of what I would want in a Subaru that would make it the perfect NW outdoorsmen’s camping car, capable of hauling a small load and or towing a tiny travel trailer.

 

I’ve found the Loyale/GL ,models had a tow rating of 1,985 lbs if the trailer is equipped with brakes, and a tow rating of 1,213 lbs if the trailer doesn’t have brakes, I will be installing a trailer brake controller in the car, and will be putting brakes on the tent trailer, but I will stay on the lighter side with a weight of around 1,300 lbs for the trailer dry, that gives me room to work with the trailer without being maxed out.

 

I’ve broken It down to the following:

Needs to be a 4x4

 

Needs to be of simple construction, (for cost and ease of repair)

Duel range 5 speed

 

EA82, for simplicity and cost (about the cheapest motor out there and very easy to change out)

 

It needs to have air conditioning, (we have pets, and a long ride in a car without AC would be miserable for them)

 

Needs to be fuel injected, (no carbs, and no turbos)

 

Needs full instrument cluster, (no idiot lights)

 

Less then 150,000 miles

 

Red or maroon in color would be a plus, but not necessary.

 

That pretty much leaves me looking for an 85 to 95 GL or Loyale.

 

My best bet, would be an 88 or 89, and I realize that my chances of finding a car with all these features is slim at best, so I am willing to accept a happy medium, what I end up with may not have everyting I want in a Subaru, but what it lacks, I can ad at a later time as I set my new car up to be my perfect vacation outdoor camping rig.

 

So follow along as we try to find that perfect car.

[92_rugby_subie]

Heres a few things for edit...

 

1985/1986 Non Turbos were carb'd... no alternative there.

and the Loyale goes til 1994 only (no 1995)

 

Ive seen some 87's Fuel Injected

 

I think an 88-89 will be perfect. The PB-D/R swap is easy enough that a Loyale will work as well.

[Skysm182]

I would say your best bet would be to find a 91' loyale (that is what I have) mine has a/c, ea82 with spfi, full instrument cluster, 4x4) the only thing you would have to worry about is swapping in a dual range tranny.

[Stubies Subie]

92_rgby_subie has been helping me, we’ve looked at a few, driven countless miles in search of the perfect one, like the one in Roseberg that was a 94, ran fine, just needed a fuel pump, had 117,000 miles on it, for an asking price of 1,500.

Turned out to be a piece of junk, took all day getting there and back home, logged over 500 miles on the trip, and it wasn’t even a car I would have trusted to the end of the sellers driveway.

 

Then there’s the 1990, looks like the perfect car, 98,000 miles, the seller is asking 2,300 for it, has everything I want in a car including working AC, but it’s an automatic, and I ain't to thrilled with the rusty front fenders, although it is maroon everywhere else there isn't rust and where the paint isn't flaking off.

 

A tranny swap to a 5 speed DR doesn’t look that bad from what I’ve read on the subject, but still a lot of work and it would take every dime I have to buy it leaving me with no money to swap out the tranny for 3 or 4 months, and honestly, I don’t think I could put up with an automatic that long …thank god 92_Rugby_Subie keeps holding me back, otherwise I’d probably own it already.

[man on the moon]

I got one with a pretty damn good body and low miles (later figured out the odometer is broken, but that's another story). I didn't want to wait around for 'the one' so I got one and am swapping in bits and pieces as I go along. Soon it will be perfect .

 

And by soon I mean someday before the next century dawns. Or just a lot of work and a bit of money (I posses the proper dr/ 5sp, and have a list of easier, less expensive projects to pursue after that--seats, 2nd battery/inverter, CB, etc).

Edited September 13, 2011 by man on the moon

[Stubies Subie]

My daily ritual is to get up in the morning, check craigslist for new Subaru’s then message Rugby_Suby to see if he found anything, and he’s found one or to, but when the people write back, the cars have something like 250,000 miles on them and they don’t run …needs to be towed for one reason or another.

 

I’m not opposed to fixing a broken car, if it can be done reasonable enough, but without a pickup and car trailer at the moment, getting one of those cars home isn’t very cost effective.

 

I’m also finding that people are basing the values of their cars with NADA or Kelly Blue Book, considering todays economy, the NADA and Kelly Blue Book values don’t mean a thing, that’s why you see ads running week after week that read something like this: 98 GL Turbo DR 5speed KBB value is 3,650, I have it below KBB at 3,295, what a steal!! ….2 months later that supposed “steal of a buy” is still for sale, why? Because it’s priced way to high for the current economy, in reality, it may be worth 1,500 to 1,600?

Edited September 13, 2011 by Stubies Subie

[Stubies Subie]

I got one and am swapping in bits and pieces as I go along. Soon it will be perfect .

 

QUOTE]

 

I'm not opposed to building something either, but finding a "platform" so to speak hasn't been easy either, most of what I come acorss has been pretty well beat up for the most part, or already built to the hilt by the last owner, I want one that's for the most part, has been untouched ...

 

I'm probabaly way to picky, but as time goes on, I'm either going to have to lighten up, or keep holding out ...

[GeneralDisorder]

Get a Legacy. No reason to fool with the EA82's anymore when Legacy's are so inexpensive and availible. I've bought two 90 to 94's in the last 6 months for $500. Both needed only minor repairs - one had the timing belt on wrong and the other had a damaged crank nose due to a loose crank pulley bolt. Both were on the road with full 60k services for less than $1400 including purchase price. One for less than $1000.

 

The EA82 is a primitive, underpowered, and rather maintenance intensive engine. Get a Legacy with an EJ22 - you'll be much happier.

 

Trust me - anything that 92_rugby_subie knows came from me. There's a reason you won't find EA82's in my stable. His runs as well as it does because I made it run that way. I know virtually all there is to know about them and I still wouldn't own one. Dead platform.

 

GD

Edited September 13, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[Stubies Subie]

Get a Legacy. No reason to fool with the EA82's anymore when Legacy's are so inexpensive and availible.

 

 

I have given that some thought, I still want a 5 speed, but I don't want full time 4 wheel drive, and I haven’t researched out the Legacy's enough to know exactly what it is that I want in one.

 

I know the first generation Legacys are kind of (don't want to say ugly) but maybe a plain Jane kind of car? (I like the looks of the Loyale better then the first generation Legacy’s) I do like the body style of the 95's, and I believe that's the last year of the non interference engines? (I don’t want an interference motor)

 

So if I could find a reasonable 5 speed 1995 Legacy (weren’t they also calling them the Outback by then?) I'd be happy with that, but at the same time, I'm thinking that a newer legacy might be out of my budget, plus I'm probably not going to spot the "deals" quite as fast as you are.

 

One of the reasons I’m looking for a Loyale is because I believe that for the money I have to work with, I can find a better Loyale then I can a Legacy (I belive a Legacy is a bit more expensive, therefore lower quality car for the money I have) hope that makes sense.

 

If I could find a legacy for the money I have on hand, that ran ok, was a 5 speed manual, I’d buy it.

 

Rugby_Subie is looking at a Loyale in the morning for 300, it’s supposed to have a bad clutch but a really nice body, if it’s a half way ok car, that leaves me 1,700 to fix it up.

 

If I go for a Legacy, from what I can tell at this point, I’m going to want a 1995 model, but if I’m wrong, someone should straighten me out, this is exactly the reason I’m posting, I want to stop any mistake I’m making, before I make it.

 

Stuart

[92_rugby_subie]

I know the first generation Legacys are kind of (don't want to say ugly) but maybe a plain Jane kind of car? (I like the looks of the Loyale better then the first generation Legacy’s) I do like the body style of the 95's, and I believe that's the last year of the non interference engines? (I don’t want an interference motor)[/Quote]

 

No, on a few things... The 1996 Outback with the EJ22 and a 5 speed is rare, but it does exist... We will have a hard time finding it though.

 

So if I could find a reasonable 5 speed 1995 Legacy (weren’t they also calling them the Outback by then?)

 

The Outback is a higher suspension, more "offroad" vehicle, there is still the Legacy Brighton, L, LS, LSi models that have the EJ22 in them until 96 as well. But they will be lower... you can get lift on them by adding Forester struts/springs.

 

One of the reasons I’m looking for a Loyale is because I believe that for the money I have to work with, I can find a better Loyale then I can a Legacy (I belive a Legacy is a bit more expensive, therefore lower quality car for the money I have) hope that makes sense.

 

If I could find a legacy for the money I have on hand, that ran ok, was a 5 speed manual, I’d buy it.

 

We can find one, one will be on there, and like I said, if this EA82 isnt what its cracked up to be, then we can look into a Legacy, go test drive one, etc... Also, as Rick pointed out, my knowledge of EAs comes from Rick (and some from just reading on the board, but at least 90% is from being around Rick and asking questions) and I do know he hates this platform. I love the EAs because my Loyale and Ned both ran/run amazingly. But I can do the work on an EJ as well... Just simply whatever deal strikes the fancy that you like.

 

I do believe that either platform will be just fine for you because of the care you take in the car... regular oil changes and fixing things when they go wrong will keep an EA or an EJ on the road for at least 300k if not more. I have seen Legacy Models with over 300k on them and I can testify of personally driving an 85 DL with 456k that ran like it had 150k on it, but either of those cars had general maintenance and were taken care of (be it the DL was stop/go with fast starts, hard braking... Still did just fine.) The EJ will have more power, but as you have said about the D/R... I know Clifford the Legacy has D/R but last I checked it was D/R AWD not D/R 4X4 with 2WD... Although most Legacys have a 2WD fuse that you can pull and they will only run in 2WD.

[eulogious]

Why don't you want the AWD? The AWD in a Subaru is fantastic, and you still get good gas mileage. It's a myth to say the subaru AWD cars get bad gas mileage. My 1st gen Leggy w/4EAT (auto) get's about 23 around town, and about 26 on the highway, and it's 21 years old! The 5 speeds get much better than that, around 30 I believe on the highway. I know the DR is nice, but's it's not a reason I would not buy a car.

 

Look into the legacy, you might be surprised at the differences between the ea82s and the legacys...

 

Oh, and don't look past the 1st gen leggy either (90-94). They were just built with a little bit more "sturdiness", they just don't seem as cheaply made. The plastic seems to hold up better, and they just seem to hold up better over time. IDK, but my 1990 has nothing wrong with it and everything powered still works just fine. That and the 1st gens are CHEAP comparatively. I do agree they are not the prettiest car in the world, but if you want to get from point a to point b comfortably, then a 1st gen leggy is for you. I love mine!

Edited September 13, 2011 by eulogious

[1982gl4]

My perfect subaru has no rust Everything else can be addressed and changed out. But as others have said, First gen legacys are awesome cars, I have owned everything from my 82 GL wagon, to an 02 Wrx, (and everything in between) and I have to say the early legacy wagon is my favorite for a daily driver. Decent milage, parts availability, reliable, I can get something other than 13" wheels for it, and the interiors are very comfortable, and nicely optioned/finished.

[heartless]

having owned both an 89 GL wagon, and, currently, a 90 Legacy wagon - i would go for the Legacy in a heartbeat.

 

the GL was a great little car, dont get me wrong, but the Legacy has more space, more comfort, better ride, and still gets decent fuel mileage - and still pretty easy to work on.

 

my GL was a FWD 5 spd - got 30-32 average

my Legacy is an AWD automatic - gets about 27-28 average - i have broken the 30mpg barrier with it on a longer trip with everything being tiptop.

 

the other half has a 90 legacy sedan, FWD 5 spd and he gets 32-33mpg regularly. (and he just hit 260K recently)

 

the GL did have AC, but being an R-12 system, it is not easy to get it serviced and converting to R-134a on those is a bit cost prohibitive as the parts are very hard to come by. the early Legacy is also an R-12 system, but conversion costs are just a little better - parts are easier to get.

 

just my .02 cents worth...

Edited September 13, 2011 by heartless

[Stubies Subie]

A few years ago, I decided I wanted a boat, so I went shopping, and found what I thought was a great and wonderful boat, so I bought it, and then I joined a boating forum, and posted pictures of my great find.

 

All the comments to that thread in that forum basically said …someone saw you coming; I’d get rid of that boat as fast as you can, if you know nothing about a boat, join a forum, ask questions, and we will help you find the perfect boat for you.

 

Once I got rid of the nightmare I had just bought, that is exactly what the people in the forum did, they helped me find the perfect boat for me, and it’s has served me very well over the years without hardly any maintenance, it turned out to be perfect, just as they said.

 

So, here I am, joining a Subaru forum, before I buy my first Subaru, and with your help and advice, I know when the time comes and I find that perfect car, I’ll know it’s the one for me.

 

As for why I don’t like AWD: that takes me back to the rest of the story, I’m an avid camper, I have traveled a lot, and I own a 1998 Grand Cherokee, and a 20 foot 4,500 lb travel trailer, the grand Cherokee is AWD, it does have 4 high and 4 low which is nice, but I’ve never liked it being AWD, and it’s a common thing in the jeep forums to change out the transfer case so it’s a part time 4WD instead of AWD

 

On the road, the jeep gets about 20 MPG when not towing, when it is towing the trailer, it gets anywhere from 6 to 10 MPG.

 

That is what brought me here, I want to down size, trade the 20 foot trailer for a little pop up, and find a Subaru to pull to that will do better on gas then the Jeep.

[Flowmastered87GL]

Regarding disliking AWD (for efficiency purposes) I have owned about 13 Subarus (which is actually a pretty small number for the board) My 87 GL never really got any better than 25MPG (it was carbed) My 1998 Impreza with AWD 2.2L got 31 highway.

 

If you REALLY want dual range, find a 90-94 legacy 5 speed with a blown transmission (which will be tough actually) and swap in a 5 speed dual range. The legacy will pull hills SO much better than a GL. I loved my old GL's but they are outdated and the timing belt design was flawed. Plus a hill plus the AC going for the pets = bad idea.

 

Another idea is an Impreza wagon. They are roughly the size of a GL and I know for a fact that you can get 31MPG in one if you drive it right. You can often pick them up cheap too.

 

Personally I think mileage is rather irrelevant. Once a car is older sometimes its nicer to have 200K all highway miles on the car than only 100K city miles. It will probably have less wear on its major components if it was taken care of right. Most of my cars were over 200K cars that I picked up for $300-400 and did a major tune up on and then they were good go to for a long time. An example is a $300 88GL I bought years ago. It had been sitting for 2+ years. I took it all apart, installed all new seals and gaskets (including head gaskets as thats why it was parked) and I think it had 240K ish when I sold it. When the guy who bought it was ready to upgrade to a legacy he offered it back to me with 318K on it and it still ran perfect.

 

Now if the car has seen lots of rally/gravel use the high mileage may hurt. My 87GL had 321K when it finally died and the suspension was totally shot and it would not even come close to holding an alignment. Though it saw lots of extreme use.

[Stubies Subie]

Concerning mileage, everything I have now (except the Jeep) has over 200,000, I'm sure having high miles isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it would be nice to find something with less.

 

I am now looking at craigslist for Legacy's, and am finding quite a few in my price range, with around 160,000 miles or so, which to me is acceptable.

 

reading the Legacy ads, it's kind of hard for me to determine if that particular car in that particular ad is what I'd want, it's not as easy for me to weed out the "don't wants" like it is with the Loyales, (no carb, no turbo, no auto, ect)

 

On the Legacy, what is it that I don’t want? Are the Turbo’s bad news as is on the Loyales, and what about an automatic? (would rather have a 5 speed manual) but auto would be fine if it was the right price I suppose.

[1982gl4]

Not sure on the turbo 2.2's I've never owned one, but I have heard good things about them, the are by far better than the ea82t.

 

As far as the trans goes the 4eat (auto trans) is really good, by far better than the the three speed autos subaru used to have. My last 92 legacy had 225k on the original drivetrain including the auto trans. The autos in the early legacys also have some cool features, like power mode, and a sort of primitive version of traction control where you can lock it in a specific gear to prevent wheel spin (very nice in the winter) I now have a five speed, and those are very good as well plus it's what I prefer. Both of my first gen legacy's have had over 200k and I have never felt like they were going to leave me anywhere or even break for that matter.

[SubaruJawn]

My Perfect Subaru

 

AWD (of course )

6 Speed Manual

6 cylinder Engine

Wagon Body Style

Good Looks

17" Rims Low Profile Tires

 

That's Stock Wise

 

before customization

[Turbone]

I built my "perfect" Subaru

[Stubies Subie]

I built my "perfect" Subaru

 

that's what I'm starting to think I'm gonna have to do, I've thought it over, and while the Legacy is a good car, and in many ways better then a Loyale, I need to stick to my original plan and keep looking for a Loyale, they are becoming few and far between from the craigslist ads I've been watching, but something is bound to turn up sooner or later,

 

So as we trudge through day 13, the search continues.

[92_rugby_subie]

I built my "perfect" Subaru

 

+1 im gonna build my perfect Subaru outta Ned

 

Then get a sticker that says BUILT NOT BOUGHT

[Flowmastered87GL]

One of the trouble spots on the old legacys is the automatic seat belts (if its equipped with them) The sunroofs can be a pain too. They work when THEY want to and can often leak. The automatic transmissions are decent if people have kept up on the fluid changes. I still would take a 5 speed though.

 

The turbos are decent, but if you are going for reliability and efficiency you will get better mileage (on regular gas) with a normal 2.2 liter.

 

I always joke that I would love to DRIVE a turbo. But OWN a non-turbo. For the record my Baja is non-turbo because I am trying to rack up major miles on it.

[GeneralDisorder]

The automatic's are EXCELLENT transmissions. Not only do they have a more sophisiticated AWD system, but the torque converter acts like a built in low-range for off-road purposes.

 

I guarantee that an AWD automatic Outback or Forester will do everything an old GL D/R will do and more - won't wear out a clutch doing it, will get better mileage, and have twice the power.

 

If all you care about is appearance..... why they hell are you buying a Subaru in the first place? The Loyale is a dead platform - move to the first gen Legacy and if you want that low-range then either get an automatic as I sugest or put the older GL transmission into the Legacy. Or get an EJ D/R tramsmission from Europe.

 

If you have $2000 to spend you would be best served by a first-gen Legacy. You can buy the best one around for that much money. No EA82 is worth spending that much on IMO.

 

Trust me - I work on these EVERY DAY and there's no comparison. I will take a stock Legacy automatic ANYWHERE a stock D/R will go. The 4EAT can be locked into 50/50 4WD just by installing a switch for the duty-c solenoid.

 

With the price of the Legacy's in the $500 to $1500 range there's just no reason at all to consider the GL/Loyale series. They are WAY behind the times and they have way too many problems to want to make one a daily.

 

GD

[eulogious]

that's what I'm starting to think I'm gonna have to do, I've thought it over, and while the Legacy is a good car, and in many ways better then a Loyale, I need to stick to my original plan and keep looking for a Loyale, they are becoming few and far between from the craigslist ads I've been watching, but something is bound to turn up sooner or later,

 

So as we trudge through day 13, the search continues.

 

Drive both first, then make these decisions. Not the other way around. Don't write off the legacy until you actually sit in one, and then drive it. Do the same with a ea82 as well. Then you will see the difference. Just looking at them on paper, you really don't see what the big deal is between the 2, but driving them is a different story.

 

You mentioned your story about the boat and not wanting to buy something that you don't want. Well, that same thing might happen if you buy an ea82.

 

Do yourself a favor and drive the 2 types of cars before writing one or the other off.

[Txakura]

get a legacy. No reason to fool with the ea82's anymore when legacy's are so inexpensive and availible. I've bought two 90 to 94's in the last 6 months for $500. Both needed only minor repairs - one had the timing belt on wrong and the other had a damaged crank nose due to a loose crank pulley bolt. Both were on the road with full 60k services for less than $1400 including purchase price. One for less than $1000.

 

The ea82 is a primitive, underpowered, and rather maintenance intensive engine. Get a legacy with an ej22 - you'll be much happier.

 

Trust me - anything that 92_rugby_subie knows came from me. There's a reason you won't find ea82's in my stable. His runs as well as it does because i made it run that way. I know virtually all there is to know about them and i still wouldn't own one. Dead platform.

 

Gd

 

+1