Wheels: decisions, decisions...

[jarl]

[sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but as you can probably tell my '99 OBW is in need of some TLC to be in shape for the winter]

 

I guess this is just thinking loud, but maybe someone who have dealt with this issues before can offer some advise:

 

When I bought my '99 OBW one of the tires was obviously damaged. PO probably hit a curb or something like that, and the side of the tire has a bump. After buying the car I learned that (a) tires must be changed as a set, ( all the tires are leaking air some faster than the others, and © it looks like the alloy wheels tend to leak air when corroded.

 

So... my questions/alternatives are:

1- Can the alloy wheels' leaks can be fixed easily? Is that something that can be done by the tire dealer? Is it even worth it?

2- Put the steel wheels+tires on he car... But: should I be concerned about the offset? Where can I get a set of cheap open lugnuts?

 

The car is a '99 OBW with the original wheels, but I don't know the year of the Forester wheels. They are 15", though.

[rverdoold]

(a) tires must be changed as a set, ( all the tires are leaking air some faster than the others, and © it looks like the alloy wheels tend to leak air when corroded.

 

So... my questions/alternatives are:

1- Can the alloy wheels' leaks can be fixed easily? Is that something that can be done by the tire dealer? Is it even worth it?

2- Put the steel wheels+tires on he car... But: should I be concerned about the offset? Where can I get a set of cheap open lugnuts?

 

 

Are you sure the valves are not deteriorating or leaking on the alloy wheels. Valves can easily be replaced by deflating and pushing the tire in (well yes for a tire shop, unless you have a large soft bar to push the tire in)

 

1: Yes alloy wheels can be fixed, usually they are sanded and acid treated before repainting them. This is quite costly over here in europe.

2: Why would there be an offset, just get 5x100 (think for 99 models) steel rims from junkjard, clean them and even respray them in the colour you like. Lugnuts you can reuse from the current wheels or get them from a dealer/webshop/ebay.

[edrach]

Offset is important. Subaru uses 55mm almost entirely for the 15" rims. Most aftermarket rims are 35mm. You can use the 35mm rims, but expect earlier than normal failure of the wheel bearings in that case.

 

If you can find a set of steel Subaru rims with decent tires (evenly worn and reasonable tread depth), put them on the car on a temporary basis. That will allow you to remove the tires from your alloy rims and inspect the rims for corrosion. I suspect you'll find the corrosion is minimal and that valve stems are most likely your cause for the loss of air pressure. You can clean up the alloy rims and get new tires of your choice for them. You can use the steel rims for snow tires in the winter.

[idosubaru]

if it sat for awhile, i wouldn't be surprised for the tires to hold air just fine if you keep running and inflating them. i have that happen often. best bet though is just to remove and reinstall them and ask them to clean the bead/wheel up.

 

if you plan on getting a set of good tires for the snow, which i highly recommend, then keep these tires and run them for the summer months and have a dedicated set for the winter.

 

you don't *have* to replace them in sets - that's a good one-size-fits-all adage but on it's own is a silly concept. if the "bump" isn't bad i'd just leave it, but can't say i recommend that either as it might not be a good idea. you can replace one tire, with new if rotated wisely and depending on current tread depth. or get a used tire to replace it that closely matches the current tread and install it in the front if it's a little more tread or rear if it's a little less. i bought a used tire this summer for like $35. totally worth it to not waste a set of perfectly good tires. you need to proceed wisely but you have options other than replace them all.

[Suzam]

These Outback wheels corrode like crazy for a couple of model years. My mother-in-laws 98 Outback (RIP) had issues with leaking. I had them cleaned up at the inner bead and they held fine after that. They would ALWAYS leak in weather temperature change from warm to cold during the fall and winter. After a good polish they worked fine.

 

A friend with a 99 has the ugliest wheels you have ever seen. Would leak until they were cleaned up. Now they hold air fine too.

[Suzam]

Here's a picture of the ugly 99 wheel that was leaking. One of the fugliest I've ever seen.

[edrach]

Here's a picture of the ugly 99 wheel that was leaking. One of the fugliest I've ever seen.

Not the ugliest I've ever seen, but a pretty common alloy wheel from Subaru.

[ocei77]

 

you don't *have* to replace them in sets - that's a good one-size-fits-all adage but on it's own is a silly concept. if the "bump" isn't bad i'd just leave it, but can't say i recommend that either as it might not be a good idea. you can replace one tire, with new if rotated wisely and depending on current tread depth. or get a used tire to replace it that closely matches the current tread and install it in the front if it's a little more tread or rear if it's a little less. i bought a used tire this summer for like $35.

 

 

Not entirely true. Subaru's AWD system and computer checks the revolutions of each wheel and adjusts accordingly, since it appears as slip.

Subaru states that the circumference tolerance is 5/32 of an inch. Running larger than this will eventually damage the center differential.

You can't just put a new or used tire on one wheel and ignore this.

 

This why some when forced to replace an expensive tire,rather than buy a set they have the new one shaved to match the other 3.

 

 

O.

Edited September 16, 2011 by ocei77

[tallwelder81]

my only input on this is that if you want a set of tires SPECIFICALLY for snow,

 

low diameter is best. the taller the tire, the less effective torque you send to the road. the taller the tire, the higher top speed you can achieve, but at the price of losing low-end response/acceleration.

 

ask yourself this: in heavy snow, or any other situation with very little traction, is top-speed a priority? or is merely getting going from zero your bigger concern?

 

in heavy snow, you really just want to keep a nice steady speed.

granted, in a good subaru, our "nice steady speed" tends to be double that of any other car, and triple that of a big heavy overrated superduty suburb truck.

the problem with that steady speed, is that there are the OTHER GUYS, either overly cautious, going 5-mph down the freeway, or the guys who think their aforementioned glorified grocery-getter F350 is invincible, regardless of how clueless and inattentive the guy in the drivers seat happens to be.

 

ive seen stock $250 dollar honda civics doing fine in heavy snowstorms, simply because the driver wasnt a cocky superman, and they were smooth and steady, and paid close attention to what they were doing, and what was around them.

 

excuse me if that was off-topic. i felt it was relevant advice to the question asked in the thread.

p.s. craigslist is flooded with great deals on subaru wheels/tires in good condition. fixing alloy wheels isnt worth the price, just replace them.

alloy is cast. it was never designed to change shape <as in the case of a dented bead-rim>, and then once again, changed shape <when bending the dent back to original shape>.

they are designed for that kind of treatment about as much as a potato chip.

cast aluminum or cast alloy has NO tolerance for abuse. if youre going to drive them hard, and you MUST have anything other than steel, then get a fat tire, so the rubber can absorb the curbs and such. rubber is made to bend and suck up impacts. cast metal was DEFINATELY not.

[tallwelder81]

and by the way, sanding or sandblasting, and then repainting 4 wheels is WAY too easy to do, to ever tolerate ugly, oxidized wheels on any decent looking car.

 

i guarantee if you have ANY handyman skills, you can have those wheels looking a MILLION times better, for 10 dollars and 2 hours of your own time.

 

small price to pay. and anyhow it feels great to know you did it yourself.

one VERY IMPORTANT TIP:

anytime you spray paint, especially wheels, 2 very thin, light coats always beats one thick heavy coat.

sand it with 180 grit first, to get rid of all that crud and oxidation.

sand it with 220 grit to smooth it for paint.

paint one light coat.

sand it with VERY gentle pressure, 220 grit, or maybe 280 grit if youre picky.

paint one more light coat.

BAM, much better looking wheels.

 

while you have them off the car, feel free to clean, sand, and paint the brake caliper also. looks very racy, cherry.

[jarl]

Holy smokes... my alloy wheels are pristine compared to that But they leak

 

Thank you for the replies, people. I read somewhere that the Forester steel wheels (let's call them SW for short, and AW for the alloys) came in 48mm and 55mm, so I don't know which ones are the one I have. Is it *that* critical?. Also, If I were to put the SW as they are (with the all season tires) I would need to buy the lug nuts as well (the SW are thinner), but Subaru wants $100 for a set of lug nuts... and that's just not going to happen.

 

Now... one of the tires on the SW (I bought a set of four plus one) is a Bridgestone that happens to have a perimeter just a tad over 1/4" bigger than the tires currently on the car. I tried to have it mounted and was told the tire is older than 10 years and they can't mount it because of that

 

Edit: they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here you have a couple thousand words:

- The damaged tire (damage at 10 o'clock):

- Wear on the tires. The current ones (Cooper CS4) and the set on the steel wheels have about the same thread left (~0.170 inches, or about 5/32")

...and the bridgestone has about 7/32"

Edited September 16, 2011 by jarl

[edrach]

48mm offset not should be too much of an issue; just try to avoid the ones with 38mm offset.

 

Again, your leak might still be faulty valve stems. If the rubber stem looks okay, you can replace the shrader valve in the stem if that's leaking. You can check for a leaky valve by pumping up the tire to proper pressure and then put some water in the valve stem. If it bubbles, you've found a leaker; replace the valve.

 

I don't know why lugnuts should be that expensive, you can often just pick them off the ground at a junkyard. I have a collection of them (acquired over the years). Which type do you need? Open or closed? I could send you a batch just for the cost of mailing them to you.

[eulogious]

Not entirely true. Subaru's AWD system and computer checks the revolutions of each wheel and adjusts accordingly, since it appears as slip.

Subaru states that the circumference tolerance is 5/32 of an inch. Running larger than this will eventually damage the center differential.

You can't just put a new or used tire on one wheel and ignore this.

 

This why some when forced to replace an expensive tire,rather than buy a set they have the new one shaved to match the other 3.

 

 

O.

 

This has been debated back and forth (search for it), but it's not THAT critical if you run one wheel with more tread, as long as it's somewhat TEMPORARY. Subaru didn't design the car so that it would break instantly if the tires were to be mismatched. There is some time before bad things happen, and it's not the end of the world if they are over 5/32" off. Not ideal, but it's not like your car will just not work immediately after putting the tire on.

 

This is good advise to use as a general rule though...

 

A different size tire, even if it's just a 1/4" bigger might be an issue though. That's substantially more of a difference than just tread wear alone.

[ocei77]

^ agreed.

The key word is TEMPORARY.

Subaru (like most) doesn't give full size spares, so it is allowed as a temporary fix.

 

O.

[jarl]

48mm offset not should be too much of an issue; just try to avoid the ones with 38mm offset.

 

Again, your leak might still be faulty valve stems. If the rubber stem looks okay, you can replace the shrader valve in the stem if that's leaking. You can check for a leaky valve by pumping up the tire to proper pressure and then put some water in the valve stem. If it bubbles, you've found a leaker; replace the valve.

 

I don't know why lugnuts should be that expensive, you can often just pick them off the ground at a junkyard. I have a collection of them (acquired over the years). Which type do you need? Open or closed? I could send you a batch just for the cost of mailing them to you.

 

I'll have to check the valves eventually... or maybe just have them replaced. Dunno yet...

 

As for the lug nuts... yep, I agree. There's no reason for a dealer to ask so much for some plain nuts. At subarupartsforyou they are still $2.50 per nut, and I need 20!!! Your offer sounds interesting, but do you have that many? (BTW: the ones I need are the open ones... the closed ones bottom out before tightening the wheel)

[jarl]

Well... after much deliberation we decided against using the steel wheels for all-season shoes. We had the all-seasons transferred to the alloy wheels with new valves. Hopefully that will take care of the leaking. I'll keep my fingers crossed...

 

I'll be installing winter tires on the steel wheels, and hope for the better But I still need the freaking open nuts

[edrach]

As for the lug nuts... yep, I agree. There's no reason for a dealer to ask so much for some plain nuts. At subarupartsforyou they are still $2.50 per nut, and I need 20!!! Your offer sounds interesting, but do you have that many? (BTW: the ones I need are the open ones... the closed ones bottom out before tightening the wheel)

I have enough of the open ones (and acorn ones). Drop me a PM and address and I'll get some off to you.