bawalker Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hello all, I have a problem here with my Subaru Outback 2001 Limited Wagon (5 spd manual) that has been going on since April of this year. Back in April I would notice a slight "popping" clicking noise when I would pull into a parking lot at a shopping center. I noticed it then because I was going barely a few mph and making a 90* turn into the parking space. The popping and clicking sounds only occurred slightly at first which seemed to be an annoyance but over several weeks through May the sound got worse when pulling into parking spaces and just making turns. There was no sound when driving straight, just turning when going forward or in reverse out of the parking spaces. At one point it got so bad that I could feel the wheels 'grabbing' at the pavement when turning and hearing the popping that had gotten really loud. Well I took it into the Monro garage and they said it was the CV joints/axle's needing to be replaced. I had never had the axle's replaced so for right around $600 I got the axles replaced. The turning sound and popping immediately was gone after taking the car out of the garage and heading home. Barely two days later I started noticing the popping/clicking sound returning a little bit. Within a day after that, the noise had returned almost to the point of pre-fixing. I took it into the shop and they had me drive it for another week asking me to check and make sure the noises were occurring when turning left and right when going forward and backwards (which I already told them it was previously). I also informed them that the noises ONLY happened after driving the car for about 15 min. When backing it out of the garage in the morning, it doesn't make those noises. I took the car back in and they did a warranty replacement on the CV Joint/axle's and again, when driving the car off the garage property and for several days afterwards, the popping and clicking was gone when turning into a parking lot. But slowly it returned and AGAIN it's back to the pre-fix sounds. Does anyone have any idea what is going on here? I have spent $600 on this issue alone and doubt I've got two bad replacement axles in a row, or was the service somehow flawed in it being performed? Just an FYI, I had new struts/shocks put on about 2-3 weeks prior to the CV joint problem, and had the head gaskets replaced back in Feb-March before the noises appeared. The car has 222,600 miles on it and the body and interior are in EXCELLENT condition, but I'm leery of adding more money to it than I need. I'm just caught in the spot of, not having a car payment if I don't need one for another vehicle and keeping this one as long as I can drive it. Any suggestions or thoughts? I would greatly appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) If the grabbing is happening at the front wheels, then it sounds like what my car was doing....essentially, front differential bind. Change your front differential/gear oil. This is not the same as engine oil. That fixed it for me. Report back here with your results. Edited September 27, 2011 by unibrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Yes it's happening in the front end. Did yours have the popping/clicking sound as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Not so much a popping/clicking sound....as a juttering/chugging/clunky sound as the wheels were binding and grabbing the pavement. If your car has over 100k on its front diff oil, it is past due. Change it out....and the car will shift gears silkier too. Read this thread for more background: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126131 Edited September 27, 2011 by unibrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 2 things 1, when axles go bad they wiull pop and click when you make turns, replacement axles should correct that. 2, grabbing, jumping and shuddereing when making tight turns at slow speeds sounds like ''torque bind''. do a search and read up. is the car an auto trans? if yes, put the fuse in the FWD holder under the hood, passenger side near the windshield. ANY fuse will do. if this cures your problem then your duty c solenoid is ok but you have torque bind. make sure all 4 tires are the same brand, size, and inflation. any of these three can cause torque bind. i find it odd that the problem went away with the new axles but came back with in a few days. try the FWD fuse and see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 I've had two sets of replacement axles, but that audible noise is still there and the slight 'feel' of some grabbing can be felt through the steering wheel. Especially when backing out of a parking space and making that 90* turn. The car is a 5 spd manual transmission, NOT automatic. Does the same fuse recommendation apply? All 4 tires are the same brand (Goodyear Tripletread), same size, wear, etc. They get rotated every 6-8000 miles and have been consistently since I had them installed 3 years ago. 2 things 1, when axles go bad they wiull pop and click when you make turns, replacement axles should correct that. 2, grabbing, jumping and shuddereing when making tight turns at slow speeds sounds like ''torque bind''. do a search and read up. is the car an auto trans? if yes, put the fuse in the FWD holder under the hood, passenger side near the windshield. ANY fuse will do. if this cures your problem then your duty c solenoid is ok but you have torque bind. make sure all 4 tires are the same brand, size, and inflation. any of these three can cause torque bind. i find it odd that the problem went away with the new axles but came back with in a few days. try the FWD fuse and see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 No fuse for 5MT. Just take my advice and change your front diff oil. Not hard or expensive. If that doesn't fix it, you can try something else next. You might as well try the easy first. And it worked for me. 2001 Forester 5MT 109k miles on her. As you can read in my link above, people will confuse center diff torque bind with front diff bind....since they are at first glance rather similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I wanted to post a followup to my situation. I finally made an appointment to take my 01 Outback into a Subaru dealership today where they put it up on the lift and confirmed both the Front Right and Front Left axle's needed replacing and were the cause. So it looks like everyone on here who indicated aftermarket axle's was right. While I didn't have time to have them replace the axle's today I also wanted to check regarding the price they quoted me. Not counting the $97 fee to put it up on the lift and look at it (seems kinda steep just to look at it?) they quoted me $395 per axle (parts and labor) for a total repair of $790 for genuine OEM parts. Does this sound right price wise for the Subaru experts on here? I wanted to hold off on getting any work done until I checked to make sure their quotes were in line with what is normal and reasonable costs for CV axle repairs. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) problem is you are getting junk reman'd aftermarket axles thru that shop. You want a solution, get some axles from Subaru or MWE. You can go with used axles, as long as they are oem subaru (Subaru has green cups on each end) 65 bucks each for good used oem ones. they are all over the ebay and car-parts. Go back to Monroe once those junk ones are removed, and toss them thru the window. You could try to demand your money back but that will get you oknow whwre til you threaten to throw them thru their windows. Edited December 21, 2011 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I think that is a little steep. It shouldnt take a dealership hours to replace each axle, and I didnt think they were that expensive of parts??? Thats a crock that they charged you $100 just to lift it to inspect them. I would see if there is anyone on here that can do it for you that is local. I would think you can get it done much cheaper with OEM or MWE axles and an independent who would be willing to spend a few hours to help. I also agree used OEM ones are ok and much cheaper if you can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks for the advice on MWE, was just reading up on them a few minutes ago and looks like a great alternative. Yesterday when in the shop I asked how long it'd take to do per axle, they told me 1.5hrs to do that. So I was assuming that the part was probably $150-$200 and labor was an additional $195-$245 which seemed overpriced to me. I was especially surprised at the fee to put it on the lift just to look. When I went out to sign the papers and get the car the guy said "ok I need to charge you for the labor for putting the car on the lift" and my first thought was, a $25 fee which even then was overpriced in my mind, but $97! That's just absurd. I have a computer business and I sure don't charge anyone anything to bring a computer in for me to look it over and tell them what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to make sure I'm looking at the right "MWE", is this the webpage of the MWE you all were talking about with remanufactured axles? http://www.ccrengines.com/mwe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Dealer shop rates vary and around me are in the $90/100 per hr range so I guess $97 is in the ball park. Had you gotten the axles fixed that day probably would have buried that fee in the labor charge. For $790 for OEM axles on both sides is not that much different than the $600 Monroe charged for axles that probably cost them less than $100. Having the MWE ones put in (I think the price has gone up to $165 ea) plus shipping and labor to put them on may be cheaper. It you can do it yourself or with friends, will save much more. That's why most of us here try to do as much work ourselves as we can, costs much less than the labor charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to make sure I'm looking at the right "MWE", is this the webpage of the MWE you all were talking about with remanufactured axles? http://www.ccrengines.com/mwe/ Yes. I think you will need to phone them to place an order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to make sure I'm looking at the right "MWE", is this the webpage of the MWE you all were talking about with remanufactured axles? http://www.ccrengines.com/mwe/ correct. i think the subaru axles are probably in the 250 - 300$ range, but i'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to make sure I'm looking at the right "MWE", is this the webpage of the MWE you all were talking about with remanufactured axles? http://www.ccrengines.com/mwe/ Marshal Wolf (the MW of MWE!) is a super nice guy and a straight shooter. I dealt with him twice about a year ago--for two different Subies. He bent over backwards to take care of me. Give him a call. Product has been excellent. Price back then was around $75 per axle plus shipping & core. Check around your area for a small independent auto repair shop and get an estimate. Probably be a lot less than your $97 lift fee dealer! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks everyone! Prior to checking here I had checked with SubaruGenuineParts.com and their prices for axles were close to the $250-ish range and I wanted to check to see if I would indeed have to pay that much (plus labor) or if some online hunting could get my cost down on that. I'll give him a call and let everyone know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I think that is a little steep. It shouldnt take a dealership hours to replace each axle, and I didnt think they were that expensive of parts??? Thats a crock that they charged you $100 just to lift it to inspect them. I would see if there is anyone on here that can do it for you that is local. I would think you can get it done much cheaper with OEM or MWE axles and an independent who would be willing to spend a few hours to help. I also agree used OEM ones are ok and much cheaper if you can find them. Wish I was local to him- could use a few extra bucks and just replaced one of mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 I called Marshall at MWE and he quoted me excellent prices and is gladly willing to help me out to get my current axle's replaced FAR cheaper than the dealership! Thanks to the entire forum for pointing me his way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldvintageguy Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 When hearing those sounds, how do you pinpoint the exact location when there are so many other sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I just wanted to update everyone on the status of my axle replacement and front end "popping". Two weeks ago I had my rebuilt Subaru OEM axle's with CV joints replaced in my 2001 Outback after having ordered them from Marshall at MWE. Everything arrived safe and sound, the garage installed them and didn't charge me labor (I have sent other business to them and this was their way of saying thanks). For the first few days, there was no popping sound that I could notice, but I wasn't doing heavy driving with the car. A few days later though when doing 1+hour driving and making a turn into a parking lot and backing out of that parking lot, the popping sound was back once again in the front end. This is really getting frustrating because this is the 3rd set of axles since June so I can effectively say that the axle's aren't the problem. But I'm at a loss at what would be? Would the rack and pinion be causing this? When in the garage, they showed me that the boots that cover my steering column (exposing a gear that rolled across this flat piece of metal that had notches in it) area were broken open. Would that be the cause? I'm open to all options at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Has all the suspension, front and rear, been checked for wear? Loose wheel bearing? All the sway links and bushings? Strut mounts/bearings at the top? I had a brake caliper (of all things) make a noise like this, under certain conditions it would shift position ever so slightly. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 LISTEN UP amigo. I have already told you what the fix is. I am going to repeat it: CHANGE YOUR FRONT DIFF OIL. DO IT. YOU ARE EXPERIENCING FRONT DIFF BIND......and this in turn is ruining all of those replacement axles you are putting in your car. This binding only happens after your car is warm and has been driven for 15 minutes or more, right???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Front differential bind? I can see a diff binding if it's pretty much wrecked, but don't see what a fluid change will do to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawalker Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 To answer the previous person's 'dead horse beating' post, I indeed changed the front differential oil already using BG based products. Which unfortunately did not alter the problem by making it better or making it worse. Obviously it's something else going on that I'm at a loss at what may be causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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