Sources for 2.2 motor??

[Rooster2]

My mechanic called me to say that my 2.5 is definitely cooked in my 98 OBW. It has a warped block, and knocking sound when held at 2K rpm. I am still mad at my wife for driving the car till the engine died. I am going the 2.2 replacement route, if I can find a decent one.

 

My mechanic says he has a source for 2.2 motors that are imported from Japan by some company in Louisiana. He couldn't remember the name of the company off the top of his head. JDM maybe it is in Denver, but not sure. (Anyone know of the outfit in Louisiana?) He is going to check on cost but roughly $850 to $1,100 for a motor delivered, that has a one year guarantee. I am checking on line and locally for a 2.2, but if anyone could point me in the right direction to a good 2.2, at a good price, I would appreciate it.

 

Meanwhile, I have a lot of reading to do on what 2.2 to install. I remember the '95 model 2.2 is a direct plug and play fit. Still........lots to read up on the subject.

[johnceggleston]

95 ej22 from an auto trans car is the best plug and play engine. easiest swap.

 

in my opinion, 96 i, auto trans ej22 is next. it is non- interference., but you need the y-pipe.

 

97 - 98 auto trans ej22 are next, they are like the 96, need the y-pipe, but they are interference engines.

 

90 - 94 may work, but they will have issues, like no EGR and they are obd1 so the wiring may be different. i don't really know. and with so many 95 - 98 available, why go back that far?

 

your best bargain is probably a wrecked / or bad auto trans car found locally. but if you can't find anything , look at www.car-part.com.

 

sort your search by distance, shipping is expensive.

 

another possible option is an ej25 with a busted timing belt. it will have bent valves, but probably not over heated. swap your heads onto that block, new head gaskets and go. for that matter, an 00 - 04 block will work with your heads and intake. but they may be harder to come by, and more expensive.

Edited October 6, 2011 by johnceggleston

[johnceggleston]

this looks good:

 

they have a 95 from an auto car w/ 145k for $375.

 

USA-IN(Brooklyn) E-mail 1-800-247-9273 and 1-317-831-2627

 

http://www.brickyardimportedcars.com/

 

EDIT: 60 day warranty

Edited October 6, 2011 by johnceggleston

[ShawnW]

Thats a deal right there! Already pulled, ready to go is amazing at that money especially if they cover it at a minimum guaranteed to run right on startup. Thats the minimum warranty I will buy.

[idosubaru]

there's tons of companies importing JDM (japanese domestic market) from japan. they're all basically the same. they are way overpriced so just depends what kind of a buyer you are. if it's a 2.5 they're high because you're still buying a weak headgasket that should be replaced, if it's a 2.2 then it's high because you can get them a lot cheaper elsewhere usually.

 

if you buy JDM make sure it has EGR valve on it and dual port ypipe, foreign market vehicles are not always the same in those regards.

[jim milewski]

let me jump in here for a minute to ask a few questions, I just did my 2.5 dohc headgasket and heads planed and all seems well so far, but have noticed quite a few swap out in favor for the 2.2, is it a matter of reliabilty and fuel mileage, less chance of a head gasket issue?

[johnceggleston]

yes, a more reliable engine over all. actually an engine that will take quite a bit of abuse and still go.

 

i chose to do it because i was pretty confident i could pull and install an engine. but i had absolutely no confidence i could remove heads and re-install and have the car run. i just had no experience.

 

plus there is the rod knock danger for ej25s that have been severely over heated. if the engine you are working on is your own, you know the history. but if you just bought the car, you just don't know how badly it has been over heated. and i cannot imagine the going through all the work of replacing the head gaskets, not to mention the timing components and re-install the engine only to have it start knocking within a few weeks.

[Rooster2]

You guys are great. Thanks for all the help. Special Thanks to John C for posting the info about the 2.2 '95 motor from Brickyard Wrecking Yard. That is not far from where I live. Funny thing.........I called there yesterday to inquire about a 2.2 motor, and was told they did not have any. Less then 24 hours later they have one. Go figure!! So, I bought the motor for $375, and consider that a good deal. Comes with a 60 day warranty. I have bought from this yard in the past, and they have a good reputation of being honest with me in previous dealings.

 

I was told the car had been hit in the side, and they considered repairing it, and putting it back on the road. I feel good that the car was running just prior to the yard buying the car from an insurance sale.

 

Thanks again guys.

[johnceggleston]

2 things about this swap. and it kind of depends on how much stuff your 95 engine comes with.

 

1. the 98 has the charcoal canister in the rear, the 95 has it up front next to the ABS unit. there are 2 small metal evap lines that come out from under the intake, passenger side front corner, on the 95, just fabricate a ''u'' connector. connect the smaller line back to the larger one. all the necessary evap lines going to the canister are in place on the rear of the car and you don't need to do any thing except put in the u-turn connector. i bought a cheap tubing fitting that reduced from the larger to the smaller tube sizes, but i'm not sure that is necessary.

 

2. the 95 has 2 small vac lines that take off from the intake, passenger side and go over to two devices on the strut tower. one of them has a small ''filter'' in line. the 98 only has one vac line going to the strut tower, it has the ''filter'', and it connects to the first device on the strut tower. and then the second device on the strut tower is connected to the first one, sort of a daisy chain affair.

 

if you look closely, you will see that the 98 has 2 lines that join together with a ''tee'' connector close to the intake. you can use the same set up on the 95, just borrow it from the 98. mostly you just have to know that there is a difference. it isn't a big deal if you know it is there.

 

good luck. let us know what you need.

[Rooster2]

2 things about this swap. and it kind of depends on how much stuff your 95 engine comes with.

 

1. the 98 has the charcoal canister in the rear, the 95 has it up front next to the ABS unit. there are 2 small metal evap lines that come out from under the intake, passenger side front corner, on the 95, just fabricate a ''u'' connector. connect the smaller line back to the larger one. all the necessary evap lines going to the canister are in place on the rear of the car and you don't need to do any thing except put in the u-turn connector. i bought a cheap tubing fitting that reduced from the larger to the smaller tube sizes, but i'm not sure that is necessary.

 

2. the 95 has 2 small vac lines that take off from the intake, passenger side and go over to two devices on the strut tower. one of them has a small ''filter'' in line. the 98 only has one vac line going to the strut tower, it has the ''filter'', and it connects to the first device on the strut tower. and then the second device on the strut tower is connected to the first one, sort of a daisy chain affair.

 

if you look closely, you will see that the 98 has 2 lines that join together with a ''tee'' connector close to the intake. you can use the same set up on the 95, just borrow it from the 98. mostly you just have to know that there is a difference. it isn't a big deal if you know it is there.

 

good luck. let us know what you need.

 

 

 

I printed out your advise, and will give it to my mechanic. Thanks again.

[idosubaru]

have noticed quite a few swap out in favor for the 2.2, is it a matter of reliabilty and fuel mileage, less chance of a head gasket issue?

not really fuel mileage, but the other two and propensity for lower end failure too.

 

biggest hesitation for me is in a situation like this where the overheat was significant. there seem to be lower end failures on EJ25's that were previously overheated, otherwise lower end failures are nearly unheard of. the lower end failures happen randomly down the road, not soon afterwards, which suggests (i'm not a lower bearing failure expert) it's related to previous overheating and compromised bearings.

 

a used/JDM replacement EJ25 has an unknown history and if it has original headgaskets who knows. not a big deal to replace gaskets - but it's added expense and work on an already typically high dollar engine.

 

it's often cost effective, though the supply of old EJ22's is dwindling. a few years ago you could buy EJ22's for cheap, like $200 where EJ25's where $1,000 or more. simple economics based on everything shared above - there's no demand for EJ22's because they're never needed and there's a high demand for EJ25's due to lower end and headgasket failure. you could sell a blown headgasket EJ25 for the cost of a good EJ22 - so it was like a free repair or close to it.

 

EJ22 supply seems to be going down and prices up here recently.

[Rooster2]

not really fuel mileage, but the other two and propensity for lower end failure too.

 

biggest hesitation for me is in a situation like this where the overheat was significant. there seem to be lower end failures on EJ25's that were previously overheated, otherwise lower end failures are nearly unheard of. the lower end failures happen randomly down the road, not soon afterwards, which suggests (i'm not a lower bearing failure expert) it's related to previous overheating and compromised bearings.

 

a used/JDM replacement EJ25 has an unknown history and if it has original headgaskets who knows. not a big deal to replace gaskets - but it's added expense and work on an already typically high dollar engine.

 

it's often cost effective, though the supply of old EJ22's is dwindling. a few years ago you could buy EJ22's for cheap, like $200 where EJ25's where $1,000 or more. simple economics based on everything shared above - there's no demand for EJ22's because they're never needed and there's a high demand for EJ25's due to lower end and headgasket failure. you could sell a blown headgasket EJ25 for the cost of a good EJ22 - so it was like a free repair or close to it.

 

EJ22 supply seems to be going down and prices up here recently.

 

 

 

I felt fortunate to find a '95 2.2 for $375. I haven't had it installed yet, but was told that it came from a running car that had been hit in the side. So, I am keeping my fingers crossed that I got lucky and bought one that is in good shape, and hopefully, PO changed oil at reasonable intervals. I checked around on the internet and found a bunch of 2.2 engines that are priced at around $700 to $800. Who knows their histories, if they are good or not. Like already written, buying a good 2.2 for $200 doesn't exist anymore. Also, 2.2 motors are getting really old, with a lot of miles if they have been continually in service. I suspect the supply of 2.2 motors is dwindling away. Lower supply of good motors, yet with some demand, means prices rise.

 

I suspect that lower bearing failure on an over heated 2.5 is prolly strongly related to oil lubrication failure. Super heating oil breaks down its ability to lubricate properly. With poor lubrication, a connecting rod failure is predictable.

[jim milewski]

good stuff to know, my EJ25 did overheat so we will see, my son did an oil change prior and used Royal Purple synthetic, so perhaps I'm ok, so far the engine with the new gaskets and heads planed sounds good, no knock. I would prefer a non interference 2.2 with SOHC if there is an issue with the EJ25 now in it, so doing a search I see the "6th digit" on the VIN, my 2.5 is a "6", does that mean a 2.2 with a "6" will work, my transmission is manual and the year 98 (Forester). $375 for a good engine sounds good. Here in Vermont every other car on the road seems to be a Subaru so finding an engine should be not to hard.

[Rooster2]

good stuff to know, my EJ25 did overheat so we will see, my son did an oil change prior and used Royal Purple synthetic, so perhaps I'm ok, so far the engine with the new gaskets and heads planed sounds good, no knock. I would prefer a non interference 2.2 with SOHC if there is an issue with the EJ25 now in it, so doing a search I see the "6th digit" on the VIN, my 2.5 is a "6", does that mean a 2.2 with a "6" will work, my transmission is manual and the year 98 (Forester). $375 for a good engine sounds good. Here in Vermont every other car on the road seems to be a Subaru so finding an engine should be not to hard.

 

If your 2.5 did not over heat for a long period of time, or repeatedly, your engine is prolly not damaged. Still, it is good to keep listening to the engine for any heavy knocking noise that signals rod bearing trouble. Hope you used Subie HGs, as they are highly recommended. After market HGs don't have as good a reputation.

 

I read something too about the "6" digit match, but don't know what it means. When I bought my 2.2, no one asked the question. So, I hope my motor will work without matching any VIN numbers. Maybe someone reading this can say what the "6" does??

 

Here in Indiana, there are a fair number of Subies on the road. I think having them assembled near Lafayette, IN has something to do with it.

[Mike104]

The sixth digit on the Subaru VIN is for Engine Type Position 6 - Engine types, varies by year. This can change yearly

 

VIN Code Description

1 1300cc - 1989; 1800cc FWD 1996

2 1600cc - 1989; 1800cc Impreza 1993-95; 1800cc Impreza AWD 1996-97; 2000cc AWD Turbo 2002-05

3 1600 4WD - 1989; 3300cc FWD/AWD 1992-1995; 2200cc FWD 1996-99

4 1800cc 1985-94; 2200cc AWD 1996-2000

5 1800cc 4WD w/out air susp - 1988, 1989; 1800cc 4WD 1990-94

6 2200cc 1990; 2200cc FWD/AWD 1991-95; 2200cc AWD (Ghost); 2500cc AWD 1996-2000; 2500cc AWD

7 1800cc 4WD w/ air susp; 1200cc FWD 1989-94; 2500cc AWD Turbo

8 2700cc FWD; 1200cc 4WD 1991; 1200cc AWD 1992-94; 3000cc 2001-2009; 3300cc FWD/AWD 1996-97

9 2700cc 4WD w/ & w/out air susp 1989-91; 3600cc 2008-up

 

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicle_Identification_Numbers_%28VIN_codes%29/Subaru/VIN_Codes

 

A more comprehensive guide is here

 

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/vin.html

Edited October 7, 2011 by Mike104

[jim milewski]

I ended up going with the latest revision of HG, a three layer instead of 4 layer MLS, I saw both HG side by side, pre revision and after revision, the latest was three layer and colored blue because of the Viton coating, they were made in Japan and packaged by Felpro. The local Subaru master has done over eighty HG jobs and has had no trouble/failures with these gaskets, I think possibly these had some markings on them similar as OEM gaskets, the cost was about $40 per gasket

[idosubaru]

So, I am keeping my fingers crossed that I got lucky and bought one that is in good shape......Who knows their histories, if they are good or not.

buying a good used motor is actually fairly simple and not much concern. find one from someone that knows it's history or from a wreck and chances are really high the engine is decent. you're often getting a motor from a car that was on the road prior to being pulled and ran just fine. yeah it needs a timing belt and valve cover gaskets are leaking, but it's time for replacing those anyway. the EJ in my Legacy was $150 from a junkyard 4 or so years ago and i've put 60,000 miles on it, it's in great shape.

 

as soon as you get bad vibes or stories, move on.

Edited October 8, 2011 by grossgary

[bheinen74]

I ended up going with the latest revision of HG, a three layer instead of 4 layer MLS, I saw both HG side by side, pre revision and after revision, the latest was three layer and colored blue because of the Viton coating, they were made in Japan and packaged by Felpro. The local Subaru master has done over eighty HG jobs and has had no trouble/failures with these gaskets, I think possibly these had some markings on them similar as OEM gaskets, the cost was about $40 per gasket

 

omg, we tell people on here to only use OEM Subaru, and then why do we tell them. This is not even worth a rant on.

 

you are not going to be lucky with anything felpro on ej25 dohc.

end

 

WHY

 

 

WHY

 

 

 

WHY

 

 

WHY

 

 

WHY not go with OEM...hello, did you read or search this?

 

I am done here

[jim milewski]

well I did consider and the things I took into account were, OEM gaskets do fail as evidenced by the large number of engines untouched that have OEM in them from the factory that fail, I read that the Felpro is packaging gaskets from the same source as OEM (I agree there is no definite truth, but it is common throughout to have one manufacturer who supplies OEM and aftermarket), a good mechanic up here swears by them (the new blue ones with the rivet), I reasoned that after over ten years of this being a problem that in an age where technology is just astounding someone can't make an improvement on a known fault and correct it. I've been wrong enough times in the past and this could be another, but what's done is done and we will see. I did notice on Ebay that there were HG were made of a graphite material, they were inexpensive, wonder what's up with those??? I would like to see the new OEM and these new Felpro side by side, the ones that came out were four layer, these are three

[mikec03]

jim milewski

 

If you pulled out a MLS hg from your 1'st gen dohc, all the internet comments indicate that your HG had already been changed! Were you aware of that? The MLS that you pulled out also sounds like the Subaru replacement gasket.

 

Incidentally, people who should know think that the Subaru 1st gen replacement gasket is almost bullet proof, but of course that depends on the skill of the installer. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-changed-there-head-gasket-for-the-2010-25l/

[idosubaru]

if the DOHC HG's were multi layer when removed then they had been replaced already.

 

not that uncommon for EJ25 headgaskets to fail multiple times, the stickied headgasket failure log on subaruoutback.org is many many many pages long and has plenty of repeat failures in it.