califcamper Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi, My brother has a sub wagon with the 2.2L motor, think its a 95, amazes me how good the car runs. My question is did Subaru ever address the HG issue on 2.5's and if they did what year? I read elswhere they were still having issues atleast in 2000, was wondering beyond that. Did anyone ever try any over the counter gasket fixer on any 2.5 L motor and have it work? I normally would never believe in an easy fix, but I have a chevy van with a 350 motor that was loosing antifreze, had a bad head gasket, which finally ended in a loss of cylinder. I was down to 7 cylinders, and was at a rebuild point. Neighbor suggested this stuff at orielly's (it was blue in a bottle) and it cost like $75 dollars. I put it in, thought it didnt work, then let it sit overnight, sure enough went out the next morning and all 8 cylinders were back. That was 6 months ago and alot of heavy driving in high heat since (texas) and sure enough it still is running perfect. So I thought maybe someone gave it a try on a 2.5. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 DOHC 96-98/99 (depending on model) leaks internally. SOHC 99/00 and up - leaks externally. no word yet on when it was "fixed". years were tossed around for a long time but in the end newer and newer ones are having headgasket failures. but it's at a lower rate and they don't overheat until they run out of coolant. the really troublesome characteristic of the DOHC's was that they would randomly overheat and there was nothing people could do about it. so you get stranded and/or are tempted to cook your motor "i can make it".... each version has it's own unique characteristics. headgasket repairs in a bottle are generally not a good permanent and long term fix, but that doesn't mean they won't help or work. i would not expect much on the earlier DOHC's because of the way they fail. in the 2000+ SOHC versions of the EJ25 Subaru requires a coolant conditioner - so it's already getting an additive type conditioner. If leaks start it's typically recommended to try two bottles of the conditioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 My wife just cooked our 2.5 motor in 98 OBW. I wish Subaru had installed a red flashing light on the dash, if the motor was over heating. My wife never pays any attention to the temp gauge. Better still, it would have been better to install a sensor that would shut down the motor, if it began to over heat. Crappy HG, and a less then great dash warning light system in Subie is not a good combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 My wife just cooked our 2.5 motor in 98 OBW. I wish Subaru had installed a red flashing light on the dash, if the motor was over heating. My wife never pays any attention to the temp gauge. Better still, it would have been better to install a sensor that would shut down the motor, if it began to over heat. Crappy HG, and a less then great dash warning light system in Subie is not a good combination. I was so scared that was going to happen with me.. lower radiator hose split and I was about 3 miles from an area I could wait over night.. I made it but I was scared $hitless For being a 2.5 DOHC I was impressed.. I did the gaskets back in Aug and it was worth it.. Followed everything to the "T" and no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motneal Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 No temp sensor works when there is no water left. The gauge reads cold even though the engine is being baked. Subs run great a long time with slightly leaking head gaskets. In the end water does not compress and you lose a rod. Take a look at your coolant overflow and if it is black you are getting exhaust in there. This does not happen overnite very often and hoses usually leak before they blow. Once they overheat, now all those hoses need replaced along with headgaskets,rod brg.waterpump and check the rad. and engine and rad. coolant sensors for your gauge and fans A coolling system pressure test is warranted sometimes along with general maintenance. Do not blame wife or Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 No temp sensor works when there is no water left. The gauge reads cold even though the engine is being baked. Subs run great a long time with slightly leaking head gaskets. In the end water does not compress and you lose a rod. Take a look at your coolant overflow and if it is black you are getting exhaust in there. This does not happen overnite very often and hoses usually leak before they blow. Once they overheat, now all those hoses need replaced along with headgaskets,rod brg.waterpump and check the rad. and engine and rad. coolant sensors for your gauge and fans A coolling system pressure test is warranted sometimes along with general maintenance. Do not blame wife or Subaru. the DOHC Phase I EJ25 is an odd ball. other subaru engines run a long time on failed headgaskets, not Phase I DOHC EJ25D's though. the original DOHC EJ25D headgaskets cause overheating instantaneously, they do not need to be low on coolant and give very little warning signs like most headgasket failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Mine finally failed around the 227k mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
califcamper Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 the DOHC Phase I EJ25 is an odd ball. other subaru engines run a long time on failed headgaskets, not Phase I DOHC EJ25D's though. the original DOHC EJ25D headgaskets cause overheating instantaneously, they do not need to be low on coolant and give very little warning signs like most headgasket failures. Thanks for the reply, was wondering how you could tell if was a 2.5 with the DOHC Phase I EJ25D motor in it? Is it by vin# or year, or just plain unluck that you would end up with one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
califcamper Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 [ Mine finally failed around the 227k mark thanks can you explain what happened? Did it overheat or did the motor just die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 First was the bubbles in the overflow tank then came some slight overheating in which it would start to climb then quickly go back down.. Then came overheating when AC was on. About that time I had a week off from work and had everything saved up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercuryrising17 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Sorry to post on this thread but I am brand new here and cant figure out how to start my own. I am changing my headgaskets on my 2002 legacy gt. I have the engine pulled all ready and I am still verry new to doing anything this serious(this was my first ever engine pull, but i refuse to spend 2k for a mechanic) My real concern is that as I was taking my timing belt tensioner off it made my right(driver side) camshaft sprocket turn backwards ( to the left) I had a lot of trouble trying to get it back to the alignment mark and there was some back and forward movement with the camshaft while i was getting the bolt losened. In doing this did I damage anything camshaft or valve related? Is there anything that I need to check on before I go forward or that I should be concerned about. It just made me really nervouse when it rotated backwards and as this is my first time taking an engine apart I am just not sure what to do next and the manual doesent mention anything helpfull. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. As of right now I am just at the point of getting the rocker arm assebly off but I wanted to get some advice from the experts here on what I should be concerned about now. Thanks for all of your posts on this site it really had given me so much knowledge and really let me grow a love for working on my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Cams rotate when you remove the belt. That's normal. What's important is that you have the crank timing mark lined up - that puts all the pistons half-way up in the cylinder and makes valve/piston interferance impossible. You are most likely fine. When they rotate like that it's because the valve is closing and forcing the cam to rotate. Just pull the heads off an proceed with your dissasembly. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercuryrising17 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thank you good sir! Your input is much apreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 keep the crank mark lined up (make sure you're using the right one, sometimes people use hte wrong one, though i'm not sure how), and you're fine. the cams are "loaded" by the valve train so that's why they snap and are under tension depending where they are in the rotation, but one is more notorious than the others. good luck, sounds to me like you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 What's important is that you have the crank timing mark lined up - that puts all the pistons half-way up in the cylinder and makes valve/piston interferance impossible. GD GD, are you saying that when the hash mark is lined up with the notch, it isn't at TDC? I saw some mention somewhere about a hash mark and an arrow with the arrow at 3:00 while the hash mark is at 12:00. I understand why you want the pistons half way up the stroke for head R&R, but is that where you set the cam timing? Also, is this relevant to a PhaseII 2003 2.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The mark like states places the pistons up in the cylinders meaning they are not TDC but sit about equal down in the bores so a valve won't make contact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 GD, are you saying that when the hash mark is lined up with the notch, it isn't at TDC? I saw some mention somewhere about a hash mark and an arrow with the arrow at 3:00 while the hash mark is at 12:00. I understand why you want the pistons half way up the stroke for head R&R, but is that where you set the cam timing? Also, is this relevant to a PhaseII 2003 2.5? Yes that's what I'm saying. The cam timing marks have nothing whatsoever to do with the ignition timing (TDC measurement, etc) - they place all the pistons at half-way in the bore so that durring timing belt R&R there is no possibility of piston/valve interferance. Yes - it applies to all Subaru EJ engines. Regardless of phase. The arrows and hash marks at 3/6/9/12 are for the DOHC engines where the crank and intake cams are aligned with one set of marks and then the exhaust cams are aligned to the intake cams with a second set of marks. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The mark like states places the pistons up in the cylinders meaning they are not TDC but sit about equal down in the bores so a valve won't make contact OK, I'm guessing by your User name, that the firing order is 1-3-4-2 which is something I was wondering about so thank you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yes that's what I'm saying. The cam timing marks have nothing whatsoever to do with the ignition timing (TDC measurement, etc) - they place all the pistons at half-way in the bore so that durring timing belt R&R there is no possibility of piston/valve interferance. Yes - it applies to all Subaru EJ engines. Regardless of phase. The arrows and hash marks at 3/6/9/12 are for the DOHC engines where the crank and intake cams are aligned with one set of marks and then the exhaust cams are aligned to the intake cams with a second set of marks. GD That's just crazy, installing the timing train off from TDC, LOL! but as long as everything is set at the same point off from TDC it works. That's good to know because I can imagine something coming up where I was trying to set things up using #1 at TDC and really making a mess of things. Learning things every day... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
califcamper Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 First was the bubbles in the overflow tank then came some slight overheating in which it would start to climb then quickly go back down.. Then came overheating when AC was on. About that time I had a week off from work and had everything saved up thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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