Synthetic oil really necessary?

[So far so good]

I just brought home a 2011 Forester and was told it is a requirement that it must have synthetic oil.

While I understand and trust the benefits of synthetics I do not mind changing my own oil every 3-5k miles using conventional.

Is it honestly necessary that I pay the 80+ for full synthetic?

I would like to try the new NexGen recycled oil from Valvoline (when and if they ever come out with the right weight)

[Mike104]

The owners manual will specify what type and grade of oil are required. $80 seems a bit steep unless you are paying someone to change it (not a dealer!!). If it was a turbo I would definitely use synthetic oil (IMO).

 

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/maintenance2.html

 

Says there are conflicting statements regarding required or recommended synthetic oil, but then says this:

 

Required in (statement effective July 2010)

5w-30 synthetic is required for all 2011 turbo engines

0w-20 synthetic is required for the 2011 Forester 2.5L non turbo, this is the only non-turbo that requires synthetic

 

My Subie is a '99 and I use a blended oil that meets the API spec in the owners manual.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Mike104

[So far so good]

You are correct with the dealer estimate of 80.00 per oil change however after the free year of service worked into the deal when I bought the Forester, I will change my own.

The manual does state it requires the 0w20 for my vehicle (non turbo) and needless to say I will follow the manual to a 'T' but was looking for insight as to why this unusual requirement for this engine.

[bheinen74]

The weight they recommend is only in a Synthetic right?

 

I would do as they say.......but my own car would be getting castrol gtx 5w-30 regular and some 2500 mile oil and filter change intervals.....

[idosubaru]

it's easy for me to comment since i don't own such a new vehicle but while i would probably run synthetic from new, i would not hesitate in a minute to use conventional in an NA Subaru engine.

 

if it's a turbo then synthetic is almost a must and conventional would not be an option for me.

[nipper]

I wonder why the Forester is the only one that uses dino-oil. Learn to change your own oil, my oil changes (synthetic) costs about 35.00, 26 for oil from walmart (mobil 1) and a filter.

[sario]

80+ for synthetic? Five quarts of mobile 1 and a OEM H6 filter cost me at most $36, and i'm sure the dealer gets it cheaper. $45+ for 15minutes of a lube-tec's time. Thats just crazy.

[GeneralDisorder]

YES - use the synthetic. You would be a fool not to use it on a brand new engine. And I don't beleive that this rather exotic weight is even availible as a non-synthetic.

 

Oil change interval should be at least 5k with synthetic on a new engine. Probably 10k would be safe with a filter change at 5. Oil analysis would be a good investment - especially if you can extend your oil changes to 10k or 15k with proper filter changes and top-off.

 

If the engine is not equipped with one, investigate the possibility of an oil cooler. Check with the parts department - I don't know if there is one availible for the FB engine yet but eventually they will have something.... when you can - add one.

 

GD

[nipper]

I'm not a big fan of valvoline.

 

Ask yourself how long do you want to keep the car. If it is for the typical subaru ownership (till the doors fall off) I would (and do actually) chaneg the oil every 5000 ,iles.

[So far so good]

Thanks folks I will follow the book and yes I plan to drive this till the wheels fall off if possible.

From what I gather here, the main reason may simply be due to the 0w20 only comes as a synthetic. Other than that, conventional may work.

 

Sario, the 80.00 I was quoted was from the dealer. I will use eithor Castol or Mobil 1 and change my own oil when they are no longer free from the dealer.

[nipper]

Thanks folks I will follow the book and yes I plan to drive this till the wheels fall off if possible.

From what I gather here, the main reason may simply be due to the 0w20 only comes as a synthetic. Other than that, conventional may work.

 

Sario, the 80.00 I was quoted was from the dealer. I will use eithor Castol or Mobil 1 and change my own oil when they are no longer free from the dealer.

 

Oh hell, go for free then . What intervals are they recomending?

[Fairtax4me]

If the new engine calls for 0w-20 oil, use it. It's complicated to explain, but basically the designers of the engine are looking for the oil to be a certain viscosity when the engine is warm. The 0w20 oil is what they recommend based on clearances and tolerances of the engine internals.

The synthetic will also last longer and protect better between changes. It also has almost no tendency to sludge like conventional oil will.

 

Your oil change interval on synthetic should be somewhere in the 7,500 - 10k mile range. Which means you spend less on oil changes when compared to a 3000 mile interval on conventional oil at $30 per change (if you DIY).

[So far so good]

Nipper,

 

3k for very first one then 7500 after that.

[nipper]

Nipper,

 

3k for very first one then 7500 after that.

 

 

Ok so they didnt go crazy on the interval. I would do the first two then 5K after that ... dont forget to lube the door hinges, dont want them falling off too soon

 

[bheinen74]

I would never take a car over 3500 on oil change.

Course, i take mine to over 200k.

and over 300k

[nipper]

i go to five and all of my cars died of cancer at over 200K or more

[rverdoold]

I never fully understood those interval differences between USA and Europe

In USA everybody (well not everybody but ok) changes the oil between 3.5 and 5k miles. While in Europe for subaru 8k is recommended (not mentioning VW weird nearly 19K miles). I usually stick with 7.5K.

So oil changes are more frequent. But timing belt here is 60k and there 100k (or not). I know driving conditions are different, but there it is Hot and cold too. And I would say less stop and go traffic (that is why it is hard to find cruise control on any car from before 2002).

[So far so good]

Fairtax4me,

If the new engine calls for 0w-20 oil, use it. It's complicated to explain, but basically the designers of the engine are looking for the oil to be a certain viscosity when the engine is warm. The 0w20 oil is what they recommend based on clearances and tolerances of the engine internals.

The synthetic will also last longer and protect better between changes. It also has almost no tendency to sludge like conventional oil will.

 

Thanks for the info, it makes sense.

Anyone fill their oil filter with oil before putting it on to prevent dry starting? The Forester oil filter is now on top of the engine so doing this is going to prove difficult without the oil coming back out while installing it.

 

Any thoughts?

[sario]

I would never take a car over 3500 on oil change.

Course, i take mine to over 200k.

and over 300k

 

My car has 246k and still going strong. For the first 200k i used dino oil and changed it between 4,000 to 5,000 miles. The more recent ones i've been doing right at 5k with sythetic. Runs great, and i don't have to add oil between changes.

[the3rsss]

Synthetic is just a better product. If compared to the same weight conventional oil, synthetic flows better cold, resists shear, almost no sludge,and since it does not use additives to achieve viscocity (they break down fairly easily) will last 2x conventional oil. It really has no down side except for price. But you can easily run it 5k miles. And all that talk about leaky seals is nonsense. Synthetics have seal swelling additives just like conventional oils

[GeneralDisorder]

5k miles is probably too short of an interval for a brand new engine running synthetic oil. But it's a safe interval - unless you are doing oil analysis and you *know* what the properties of your oil are - you are better off playing it safe. Especially with that FB engine - no one in this community or any other (that I know of) has done any oil analysis on it yet.

 

That being said - with oil analysis you could likely push a quality synthetic up to 12k to 15k with proper top-off and filter changes.

 

When I worked in the compressor industry I got to see the benefits of synthetics first hand - all compressors up till the early to mid 90's ran ATF - till they changed the formula and made it too smelly. Now they run specialty compressor lubricants. The interval on oil changes has steadily grown from about 1000 to 2000 hours of operation on ATF to an amazing 8000 hours on synthetic. And they now have a new synthetic oil that is being rated as 12000 hour lube.

 

Sludge and varnish from non-synthetic oils is easily the biggest killer of engines - it will foul the rings and cause them to burn oil - which under the watchless eye of most owners means it runs low on oil and wipes out the rod bearings. It's just a nasty, nasty substance and synthetics are almost entirely free of it. If you plan to shoot for 500k out of your engine - synthetic is the only way to insure you will get there.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

Anyone fill their oil filter with oil before putting it on to prevent dry starting? The Forester oil filter is now on top of the engine so doing this is going to prove difficult without the oil coming back out while installing it.

 

Any thoughts?

 

With bottom mounted filters the oil can drain out of the block passages when the filter is removed so yes it does help to fill them before installing. But with the top mounted filters, the oil stays in the block when the filter is removed, it can't drain up. So there will always be oil in the block passages, which is where you need it most. The filters only take ~2-3 seconds to fill completely once the engine is running.

[nipper]

I never fully understood those interval differences between USA and Europe

In USA everybody (well not everybody but ok) changes the oil between 3.5 and 5k miles. While in Europe for subaru 8k is recommended (not mentioning VW weird nearly 19K miles). I usually stick with 7.5K.

So oil changes are more frequent. But timing belt here is 60k and there 100k (or not). I know driving conditions are different, but there it is Hot and cold too. And I would say less stop and go traffic (that is why it is hard to find cruise control on any car from before 2002).

 

 

Actually in the US it is 7500 miles. There are valid reasons for the differences, it comes down to driving habits, enviorment and fuel quality. There are also quite a few cars that say to change it when the oil change light comes on.

 

VW has had quite a few law suits for engine sludge seizing engines (and have had them here as well) along with a few other mfg's.

 

Timing belt here was originally driven by emission laws, as keeping the valve train in synch is vital to emissions.

 

Professionally even on the best synthetic unless you are doing al ot and i mean 100% highway miles, (and there is always someone who will say they got 20 gazzillion on an oil change well good for them) your pushing your luck beyond 7 k and 5 k is actually a lot more reasonable and easier to remember.

[nipper]

With bottom mounted filters the oil can drain out of the block passages when the filter is removed so yes it does help to fill them before installing. But with the top mounted filters, the oil stays in the block when the filter is removed, it can't drain up. So there will always be oil in the block passages, which is where you need it most. The filters only take ~2-3 seconds to fill completely once the engine is running.

 

If they are large i fill them, if they are tiny i do not. If it is a remote filter i fill them either way.

[hohieu]

The benefits of synthetics not withstanding, I see no reason why an engineer would require 0w20 as opposed a 5w20 oil for the naturally aspirated engines. They both have to be in the same range at operating temperature.

 

In a normally running engine, oil change intervals <5K miles are a waste of money and resources. On the other hand, if you have a slow coolant leak into the engine or you're ignoring a continuous misfire, for example, then shorter intervals would be beneficial.

 

I've been running 10 to 15K intervals with synthetic over the past 100K miles. I change the oil once a year, and all is fine with my car, which now has around 170K miles on the odometer. Oil consumption has remained the same since the day I bought it (1 qt./6K miles) so I'm adding about 2 qts. of makeup oil between changes.