Legacy777 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I've got a small leak in the radiator on my 90 Legacy, and am trying to investigate whether I can upgrade the radiator to a thicker core radiator found on the 2.5 Legacy around 96-97. Based on the information I've looked at in the factory manuals, the core is the same, but it appears the mounting brackets at the top and the spacing of the feet are off a little bit. So I was just curious if anyone has tried this swap, and/or if anyone has one of those radiators that they could take a few pictures of and maybe take some measurements for me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) the lower frame member in my 97GT has both sets of mounting holes, wider ones like the 95 lego, the bottom pins are directly below the end tanks, and the holes closer to the center, for the GT radiator. the GT radiator is 1" thick, the L rad is 5/8" thick. the holes in the frame member have rubber grommets in them to cushion the rad. i don't know the dimension, width, of the GT rad pins, but if the lower frame member has large (~1.5") holes closer to the center than the ones being used on your lego there is a chance. i think the bolt holes in the upper frame are very similar. the 97GT has both wide and not so wide. one pair is used for the GT rad, and the other for the L rad. does your upper frame member have unused bolt holes? Edited October 17, 2011 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 John, Thanks for the reply. No I don't have any unused mounting holes on the top radiator support. Here are some pictures that show the top mounting point for the radiator. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/awicradiator/02/DCP_8226.JPG http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/awicradiator/02/DCP_8235.JPG This picture shows that the distance for the top mounting points is about 21 inches. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/awicradiator/DCP_8151.JPG This shows the bottom of the radiator, which appears to have similar spacing as the top, maybe a little wider. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/ej22t_headwork/IMG_1705.JPG What I am thinking of trying, or would like to try is get the 2.5 radiator and remove the top and bottom mounting brackets/plates and bolt on my mounting plates brackets. Can you confirm/verify that your 2.5 radiator has the bolts on the top and bottom plates to the plastic end caps. Here's a pic showing the top bolt. You can kind of see the bottom bolt in the above picture of just the radiator. http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/awicradiator/04/DCP_8301.JPG Based on the info I read in the factory manual I believe the radiator core itself should be the same dimensions, minus the thickness difference. If you can help confirm whether the top & bottom plates are similarly able to be removed, I may see if I can find a used 2.5 radiator to test fit with. Does your GT have an auto or manual trans? Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 For what it is worth.........I have seen nylon cable ties used to secure a radiator, when the holes did not match up. It is a red neck fix for sure, but it does hold the radiator in place quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'd like to try and get the correct fitment if possible. If it won't work, I'll probably just go with a replacement radiator for my car. It has provided more than capable cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think you would have the best luck trying to use the upper mounts from the GT radiator (drilling new holes for them if neccesary) and then making new holes in the bottom core support for the grommets if needed (hole saw, etc). What about installing a Koyo or Mishimoto aluminium radiator for an SS and then having a filler neck tig welded into it or putting an inline radiator cap in the upper hose? http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-94-Subaru-LEGACY-Turbo-Mishimoto-Aluminum-Radiator-/180729895267?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D170708840092%26ps%3D54 GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 in the last few weeks i have installed a new 97 GT rad and installed a used 95 lego rad. the 97 gt has bolt on brackets like the one in your pic. of course i can't be 100% but it is of that style. the 95 lego is different, the top bracket does not bolt on, it fits over top of the rad and when bolted down, it hold it in place. plus the bottom or your rad is more like the 97 GT. it has the bracket bolted to it and the pins are not on the end tanks, but the bracket. it maybe that the 94 era rad is more like the GT. and the 95 era lego was one of the ''cost saving changes'' that subaru made in 95. i would bet that the gt will work. but the only sure way is to compare them or measure the width of the pins and the bolt holes. if i were home i would measur the width for you on the one i removed. but i'm on the road until thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think you would have the best luck trying to use the upper mounts from the GT radiator (drilling new holes for them if neccesary) and then making new holes in the bottom core support for the grommets if needed (hole saw, etc). What about installing a Koyo or Mishimoto aluminium radiator for an SS and then having a filler neck tig welded into it or putting an inline radiator cap in the upper hose? http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-94-Subaru-LEGACY-Turbo-Mishimoto-Aluminum-Radiator-/180729895267?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D170708840092%26ps%3D54 GD I actually have a turbo motor in my Legacy, but the turbo legacy radiator is taller than the non-turbo legacy radiator and won't fit. I'd have to cut out the non-turbo lower radiator support and weld in the turbo one. I don't need it that bad, which is why I've stuck with the non-turbo one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 in the last few weeks i have installed a new 97 GT rad and installed a used 95 lego rad. the 97 gt has bolt on brackets like the one in your pic. of course i can't be 100% but it is of that style. the 95 lego is different, the top bracket does not bolt on, it fits over top of the rad and when bolted down, it hold it in place. plus the bottom or your rad is more like the 97 GT. it has the bracket bolted to it and the pins are not on the end tanks, but the bracket. it maybe that the 94 era rad is more like the GT. and the 95 era lego was one of the ''cost saving changes'' that subaru made in 95. i would bet that the gt will work. but the only sure way is to compare them or measure the width of the pins and the bolt holes. if i were home i would measur the width for you on the one i removed. but i'm on the road until thursday. I'd be happy to wait until you get home and take some measurements. Would you happen to still have your old 97GT radiator? Worse case, I'd be happy to buy the old one to use for mocking up and test fitting. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Did a little bit of research on Koyo Radiator's website, http://www.koyorad.com/search.asp I found that they only offer a radiator for the 2.5 motor with a build date after 5/97, which would typically be a late model year 97. They are showing the thinner core radiator like what you described in the 95. It looks like Subaru realized they could get by with the thinner core radiator on the 2.5 and cheapened things for the late MY 97's and onward. Here's a screen cap of the info on koyo's site I'd be curious to know what the build date is for your 97 GT. What brand radiator did you buy for it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) i bought it from advance auto, it listed for ~125$ but i ordered it online and used a discount coupon, ''BIG35'' and paid less than 99$ including 5% tax. EDIT: i was surprised that the rad came complete with top and bottom brackets. all i had to do was swap the over the top rubber groments onto the new rad bracket. easy peasy. i'd be glad to send you the brackets, top and bottom, but i think i trashed them. i only save the rad for the aluminum. if i did trash the brackets, you will have to settle for the measurements from a 98 outback chassis. should be the same. i'm pretty vsure the outback , like the GT , has mounting holes for either rad. i'll check the build date as well. the rad in your diagram appears to be the same as the 95 lego. 5/8 inch thick with the bottom pins in the side tanks. the 97 GT is speced as 1'' inch thick and has pins on the bottom bracket. Edited October 18, 2011 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I know for a fact that Subaru was still using the double-row metal tank units on the 98 SUS - Just replaced one about a month ago. Had to lookup a radiator for a 96 GT/Outback 2.5 to get the right one for it. It was a Spectra and I got it for less than $90. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 i bought it from advance auto, it listed for ~125$ but i ordered it online and used a discount coupon, ''BIG35'' and paid less than 99$ including 5% tax. EDIT: i was surprised that the rad came complete with top and bottom brackets. all i had to do was swap the over the top rubber groments onto the new rad bracket. easy peasy. i'd be glad to send you the brackets, top and bottom, but i think i trashed them. i only save the rad for the aluminum. if i did trash the brackets, you will have to settle for the measurements from a 98 outback chassis. should be the same. i'm pretty vsure the outback , like the GT , has mounting holes for either rad. i'll check the build date as well. the rad in your diagram appears to be the same as the 95 lego. 5/8 inch thick with the bottom pins in the side tanks. the 97 GT is speced as 1'' inch thick and has pins on the bottom bracket. Thanks for the info John! Was the radiator you got from Advance an aluminum core with plastic end caps? What brand was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I know for a fact that Subaru was still using the double-row metal tank units on the 98 SUS - Just replaced one about a month ago. Had to lookup a radiator for a 96 GT/Outback 2.5 to get the right one for it. It was a Spectra and I got it for less than $90. GD Thanks GD! I'll do some looking online at Spectra radiators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've done a little bit of research and found mixed reviews for both the Ready-Rad & Spectra radiators. Unfortunately, I guesss that's to be expected somewhat when searching the interweb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) VIN = 4S3BK6756V7313723 i took some pics of the top support in my 97 GT. 97 GT top rad support and all 4 bolt holes . 2 used and 2 empty. the 97 GT uses the inner bolt holes, ~21.25" apart, (maybe 1/16" more). the right side to right side of the brackets is the same distance as the center to center of the bolts. the finger points to the wider bolt hole on the left, not the tape measure. the wider bolt holes in the top support are ~25.25" apart, (maybe 1/16" more). i repositioned the tape to show/ measure the wider bolt to bolt distance. i took a couple of pics of the rad it self but they didn't turn out very well. i tossed the top and bottom brackets . i thought i would need them on the new rad but i didn't. the only thing i had to swap from the old to the new were the 2 large rubber grommets on the top for the attaching brackets. Edited October 20, 2011 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well those mounts look to be identical. So I'm going to go ahead and get that radiator. I really am in need of it. My Impreza has a stripped spark plug hole on the # 3 cylinder. So I've got to drive the Legacy to work & back tomorrow with the leaking radiator. BTW, the Subaru part # for your radiator is 45199AC110. Thanks for all your help John!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Just for additional information, I measured the height from the outer edges of the metal bracket on the bottom & top right at 15.5". I believe is the same as your GT radiator, but if you have a chance to confirm, that would be great. Here's the specs on the two radiators from Spectra's site 1990-1994 Non-turbo Legacy Radiator Part Specifications Core Material : Aluminum Tank Material : Plastic Row No : 1 Core Height : 26-3/8'' Core Width : 14-1/8'' Core Depth : 5/8'' Inlet Header : 1-7/8'' x 15'' Outlet Header : 1-7/8'' x 15'' Inlet : 1-1/2'' Outlet : 1-1/2'' Eoc : None Toc : 5-7/8'' (Concentric) Notes : Installation Kit: 1 x Installation Sheet 1996-1997 2.5 Non-turbo Legacy GT Radiator Part Specifications Core Material : Aluminum Tank Material : Plastic Row No : 1 Core Height : 26-3/8'' Core Width : 14-1/8'' Core Depth : 1'' Inlet Header : 2'' x 15-1/4'' Outlet Header : 2'' x 15-1/4'' Inlet : 1-1/2'' Outlet : 1-1/2'' Eoc : None Toc : 7-7/8'' (Concentric) Notes : Installation Kit: (ACPK241) 1 x Installation Sheet 1 x Instruction Sheet 2 x Metal Sideframe 4 x Hex Bolt 1/4'' - 20 UNF x 1/2'' Edited October 21, 2011 by Legacy777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Well I picked up a new radiator for the 96-97 Legacy GT. It appears like it will fit, however I ran into something a little odd. There are cuts in the top and bottom of the aluminum radiator core support. I don't know if it was a manufacturing issue or what. I called the dealer, and they are ordering me a another one. Some notes on the comparison of the two radiators, the 90-94 non-turbo Legacy radiator has its AT cooler lines coming out differently than the 96-97 GT radiator. This will cause an issue with how the coolant overflow bottle sits. Since I am not running an AT, I can cut that line off if need be. I might be able to run the 96-97 Legacy GT overflow bottle if it would fit into the fan shroud on the 90-94 Legacy. I'm not sure if the MT radiator for the 96-97 Legacy GT is the same thickness. I would think it should be, so that would eliminate that problem if you did not have an AT. Other thing I noticed is that on this particular 96-97 radiator, the holes at the top do not go all the way through the top support bracket. The holes on the front side of the bracket hole a shroud in place that helps keep air coming from the front of the car rather than from the top space between the radiator and core support. It's not a big deal, I'll just drill the holes. The pictures of the radiators in the post above show the holes going all the way through, so it may be something different for different manufacturers. Here are some of the pictures I took. I'll add to the pics when I get the new radiator and get it in the car. http://main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/radiatorcomparison/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) I've got an update. I've got the 96-97 Legacy GT radiator installed in my Legacy with only a few tweaks. I'll try and highlight them for future reference. Just as a note, the above mentioned cuts in the top and bottom of the radiator appear to be "normal". Check out this thread for further information and pictures from an original radiator installed in a Legacy GT http://ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127466 As for fitting the 96-97 LGT radiator in a 90-94 non-turbo Legacy, there were a few things that I had to deal with. The first is the top mounting bracket, the 96-97 LGT radiator does not have holes in the front part of the bracket for a deflector that is on the 90-91 Legacies. It appears that only the OEM Subaru radiator does NOT have these holes. Most aftermarket radiators are probably going to have these holes because of trying to keep radiator parts common between different models. I was going to drill the new bracket for the holes, then just decided to swap the old bracket on the new radiator. The second issue is regarding fitment of the coolant overflow tank. On the 90-94 Legacies the top AT trans cooler fitting is not as high and clears the coolant overflow tank. However on the 96-97 LGT radiator the top fitting is higher and interferes with the tank mounting. You can see this in the above posted radiator diagrams I posted. If you purchase a MT radiator from Subaru it should not have the AT trans cooler fittings and this should not be an issue. Again most aftermarket radiators will have the AT trans cooler fittings for commonality between models. If you have a MT equipped car, you can bend the top fitting out a little bit and then you will need to cut it a little bit to clear the AC line when getting the radiator in the car. This is what I did and everything fits fine. However, if you have a AT equipped car, you will need to use the trans cooler. Your best bet is to get a fan shroud and coolant overflow tank from the 96-97 LGT. The tank is moved over more and has a different mounting bracket at the top. If the fan motor does not have the same electrical connector, I am assuming you would probably be able to swap the electric motors between years. So that's kind of a wrap up of the differences and things you need to do to make the thicker core 96-97 LGT radiator fit into a 90-94 non-turbo Legacy. Also, if anyone is interested in purchasing the radiators from Subaru, here are the part #'s 96-96 LGT Radiator MT: 45199AC100 AT: 45199AC110 Just an FYI, I have not been able to confirm that the MT radiator also has the thicker radiator core, but I would assume it does. Here are updated pictures with the test fitment and modifications I made, as well as pictures of the 96-97 LGT coolant tank, thanks to johnceggleston http://main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/radiatorcomparison/ Edited November 6, 2011 by Legacy777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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