lmdew Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 If there is no signs of leaks, are you changing the Oil Pump Oring when doing the timing belt? I usually do the cam and crank seal along with a water pump every other timing belt, but I've seen some talk on changing the oil pump Oring also. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 It's a cheap part, easy to replace and gives you the opportunity to check the backing plate and reseal the pump to engine mating surface. Why take a chance when you'ere already in there? IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlid Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 When the local stealership did the timing belt with a $199 coupon for me the tech said the backing plate on the oil pump was leaking and he had not had much succes tighting them so he replaced the pump when he did it the total after the coupon came to $900!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Ahhh, its tricky, isn't it? "If it aint broken, don't fix it" will only lead to untimely failures of some components. On the other hand, every time you dismantle something you run the risk of damaging it or components around it. If it's not leaking, then why should it start now? What happens if a bolt breaks off during removal? Will you be able to re-seal it well enough? I agree that cam and crank seals should be replaced, but the oil pump seals have me in a pickle too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 The probability of the oil pump's bolts (pump to engine block) being stuck enough to break upon removal are in my opinion very low. The environment is oily and protected by the timing belt covers. Same thing for the backing plate screws. Moreover, the torque value of these fasteners is relatively low. When I did mine I replaced the Oring and resealed the mating surfaces but did not touch the back cover's screws. They were already tight enoug. Having had a look gave me peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I left my oil pump alone completely when I did my timing belt. It was not leaking anywhere. The crank seal was leaking so I replaced it, and now it appears my left cam seal has started leaking and I'm gonna hafta go back in there and replace them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I just did the entire shabang this weekend, t-belt, oil pump seal, crank & cam seals. here's some thoughts. Removing the oil pump isn't that difficult. It was more difficult for me to see all the stupid bolts holding it in The O-ring was probably in need of being replaced, it was squished a little. The screws holding the backing plate were more then tight enough. I pulled the plate off to check the rotors, and everything looked fine. Resealed everything. Taking the oil pump off makes changing the crank seal easy. The cam seals were a pain in the butt to change. There's definitely a little secret to doing it. You need to stick a small flat head screwdriver into the seal from a very shallow angle and sort of pry against the block (using it as a pivot point) to try and get seal out. I spent a lot of time on the driver's side and spent less then a minute on the pass side once I figured out how to do it. Other then that....everything was pretty straight forward, and went all back together easily. I probably should've replaced the idler pullies and gear.....but oh well. If I was just doing the belt it would've probably only taken me 2 hours or so....I was surprised it wasn't that difficult. Here's some pics http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/images/timingbelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 About the seals, I know what you mean 777. I lost a lot of time trying a method i read about where you drill two small holes on each side of the seal, put metal screws in and pull on the screws with a couple of small vise grips. Did'nt work out for me. Before i was finished, i had to go to the dealer to get a part and just went into the working area and flatly asked a mechanic how he did to remove those seals. Exactly the srewdriver method you outlined in your post. One has to be careful though not to scratch the shaft while doing this. You have to pry upward and AWAY from the shaft. Only a mirror finish will prevent the seal from leaking again. Like yourself, I did'nt replace the idler pulleys nor the tensionner. They seemed to be OK. Hope I wont regret it. You did'nt say anything about the water pump. Did you replace it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 water pump was replaced at 120k.....so this round i didn't bother. The shafts are pretty hard and don't scratch too easily.....I don't think I really touched them once I new what I was doing. The drivers side was the one i was boogering up. We'll see if it starts leaking....it should be ok though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I am doing my first timing belt replacement later this spring. 777 and frag, could you help me better understand what you did to remove the seals? Is it right that you basically rest the screwdriver against the edge of the seal bore tangentially to the shaft, sink the tip of the blade into the seal, and pry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I'll describe it the best I can and hope you understand what I mean. 777 will prob do the same and in a better english. I slowly insert the screwdriver's blade (greased or oiled) between the seal's lip and the shaft, (the blade flat touching the shaft). I then go in just enough so that by pushing downward on the handle the blade part of the driver will exert from inside a pressure on the seal's rim (crown ?) At that moment the part of the driver closest to the handle is pivoting on the block just under the seal. What I recommend at that stage is to also put some lateral pressure on the screwdriver away from the shaft to lower the possibility of scratching it and making sure the blade tip is not gouging the seal's seat. Like 777 said, it would take a real hit or a heavy pressure of the driver's stem on the shaft to gouge it enoug to pose a problem for the seal's lip. Hope that's clear. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Leg Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I also "discovered" a method after much time trying to figure out how to get them off when I replaced them around 2 years or so ago. It's a variation on the shallow screwdriver method. I think anything looking like a curved screwdriver would work, but I ended up buying what I think is called a "tack remover". It looks like a small claw from the back of a hammer, but attached to a screwdriver handle. I suppose you have to be extra careful about the sharp edges scratching anything, but it seemed to slide into the edge of the seal and then give me the leverage to pop it out easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Frag gave a pretty good description. I'll try and draw something up on one of my pics I took....with some arrows and stuff. On the pass side I used a small socket against the block to move my pivot point further out from the head and allow myself some more leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbianchi Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Josh those pictures are the best, you really do have your legacy documented well. We are truly greatfull:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks a lot, 777, frag & 95Leg. Removing the seals was one last thing, hopefully, I had to think through. And yes 777's pictures are great, they're worth even more than 32000 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlid Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Well he said the oil pump was leaking from the backing plate and that it could lead to airrated oil and that that could toast the engine so I let him replace it at the tune of anothe $200 taked onto the bill!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Did he say how he knew the backing plate was leaking? Honestly Oil will be all around in this area of the pump......it will not be a perfect seal between the backing plate and housing. As long as the screws were tight.....I wouldn't think there to be a problem....unless something was worn out of spec.....I don't know....I didn't see any problems with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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