Screwed up knuckle/spindle - options?

[binary visions]

I was replacing the front right axle in my 2002 Subaru Outback and the bolt that pinches the ball joint in the spindle sheared right off at the head. There's a fair amount of rust down there from being driven in New England for so many years, but of all the bolts to shear off... that one sucked.

 

We tried using a bolt extractor and managed to break the extractor. Surprisingly easily. So one side of the bolt now has a hardened extractor semi-permanently embedded into it.

 

Being that it was late and we were tired as hell, I had the genius idea to drill out the bolt from the other side - with, as you can expect, predictably bad results. Some of the threads are damaged now.

 

So, here's my question. That's an expensive piece of metal, not to mention the wheel bearings pressed into it. I'm wondering if it'd be safe to take it to a machine shop and drill it out to a larger size? I do not want to compromise the integrity of the part, of course, I'm just trying to avoid spending $250 on the knuckle and $100 on wheel bearings. Any other options?

 

Would have done it a lot different in retrospect, but hindsight is always 20/20.

[johnceggleston]

buy a used replacement part. search for a ''steering knuckle'' or front spindle. maybe buy one from a non-rust belt state and have it shipped to your door.

 

or if you are in a hurry, get the one closest your house.

 

you can put in your zip and sort by distance or sort by price or search a specific area of the country.

www.car-part.com

[binary visions]

Thanks for that link.

 

Wouldn't you know it, the guy 30 miles from my house has had the steering knuckle I need on his shelf for 2 years, and last week someone bought it.

 

[hohieu]

If you managed to get the old bolt out then, you can pick up a 2.5"-long 3/8" grade 8 bolt with matching nut and washers (2 flat and 1 lock washer). You'll use the nut in lieu of the threads on the rear side of the knuckle to pinch the new ball joint into place. A 7/16" bolt may work as well, but I'm not sure it'll clear the shoulders of the ball joint. The OEM bolt is 10 mm, and 3/8"~9.5mm, 7/16"~11.1mm. Then, off course, anti-seize on the bolt and ball joint socket before reassembling.

 

I recently did both ball joints on my '99 Forester, and the right one came out with very little trouble. The driver's side was a different story. My bolt sheared off where it was threaded into the knuckle. I did them with the knuckle on the car. Are yours off the car?

 

In hindsight, I should have searched around on USBM before starting this job. Here's some good advice from a fellow forum member:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126528&highlight=ball+joints

Edited October 24, 2011 by hohieu

[idosubaru]

I would work around this issue for zero dollars and not waste time. more on that in a minute.

 

I was replacing the front right axle in my 2002 Subaru Outback and the bolt that pinches the ball joint.

maybe it works on zero rust areas, outside of that it's a terrible method for replacing axles in the northeast/rust prone areas. particularly since there's an easier and 100% foolproof method. once the wheel is removed you only need to remove one bolt to replace the axle - the top strut mount bolt - which is never rusted and much easier to deal with if it is (rare). remove that bolt and loosen the lower one. once that bolt is removed the entire knuckle, with strut still attached, swings "out" away from the car, giving room to pull the axle out. it's a little tight to get out, but comes out every time. pull the inner DOJ up so to speak as you pull the axle out of the hub, then snake it out around all the brake lines, etc.

 

you need to mark the *head* position of the top bolt so you can reinstall it in the same orientation as it adjusts camber - but that's really easy. use a high quality marker/grease marker, or i just hit the head of the bolt/strut body at the same time with a chisel and line the marks up when i'm done.

 

i never touch that ball joint bolt around here unless i absolutely have to. also in rust prone areas you'll only get 1 out of 10 ball joints out without destroying the boot so yo'ull be replacing those most of the time as well. adding more work, time, and cost.

 

We tried using a bolt extractor and managed to break the extractor. Surprisingly easily..

not surprising at all, those tools suck. you're best bet is to throw away every bolt extractor you have and never use them again. they cost more time than they save. they're a nuisance. anything that comes out with a bolt extractor is not that difficult to remove by other means. they only work on really easy to remove stuff....which almost never happens since easy to remove stuff doesn't shear off bolts - not in automotive applications anyway. an extractor would have never touched that ball joint pinch bolt, those aren't easy to remove.

 

So, here's my question. That's an expensive piece of metal, not to mention the wheel bearings pressed into it. I'm wondering if it'd be safe to take it to a machine shop and drill it out to a larger size? I do not want to compromise the integrity of the part, of course, I'm just trying to avoid spending $250 on the knuckle and $100 on wheel bearings. Any other options.

 

i would leave it as is. install that axle like i mentioned above and leave it be, it's not going anywhere. no way that bolt is ever coming out without metal working equipment.

 

if you're amped to fix it. i would drill the pinch bolt out from the other side where the extractor is not embedded. only the end is threaded, once you get to the sheared off extractor you should be able to use a punch and knock the remaining shaft of the pinch bolt and the extractor out the other side.

 

once it's all drilled out - just use a large bolt and nut - don't bother threading it or anything it just needs to be able to clamp down which a high quality bolt and nut will do just fine. or if you're really amped up it's not that hard to tap threads either. or even helicoil it back to the original size.

 

you've got a ton of options, all which can be done without removing/replacing your hub. given the rate of failure of EJ wheel bearings i'd rather keep the known good hub you have than install a hub that's been sitting, rolled around a yard, possibly contaminated, etc. i've had used hubs fail bearings....it's still a good option sometimes since two used hubs are still better fit sometimes than getting into bearings, but you've got a known good hub that was just driving fine - i'd try to keep it.

[bstone]

I think you're talking about the lower ball joint. I had the same exact problem last summer. I was taking off the bolt that holds it in and the head came off. I ended up drilling it out. Took hours, but eventually I got it out. The new lower ball joint came with a new bolt, which I sprayed with PB Catalyst and put a nice smear of anti-seize on it.

 

I am going to replace the lower ball joint on the other side but will be way more careful. Will spray it down on PB Catalyst for days and days with lots of tapping before I try to get it out.

[idosubaru]

good call, drilling...if you're going to drill get a high quality drill bit...they're pricey relatively speaking...but cuts the time way down. oil it often for lubrication and cooling and that will reduce the time a lot. or get a bunch of cheap bits and blown through them!

[davebugs]

I recently found out that PB is supposedly corrosive.

 

So I wouldn't use it as a lube. Strickly as a penetrant.

 

I found out when having work done on my car and my friend asked for WD40 to spray on some electrical connections before removal. He says PB is corrosive so to never use it on wireing connectors. And if you read the can of WD40 you know it's the opposite. I still don't think of WD40 as any kind of a penetrant though. But it worked on the wiring connectors in my car with over 200k in the rustbelt.

[binary visions]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

grossgary; I couldn't leave the bolt as-is because of what we had done to it trying to get it out. Thinking back on it, of course it would have been much easier to remove the strut bolts and I will definitely do that if we have to do the other side - thanks for the tip.

 

I found a recently pulled knuckle that's getting shipped to me so I'll take a look at it once it gets here. If it looks good, I'll use it. If not, we may go the route of just drilling the hell out of the bolt and pinching it with a nut.

 

Just wish I hadn't been a bonehead in the first place and I wouldn't be replacing it. Live and learn, though, this was my first axle job and it actually went well except for that - and needing a 4' cheater bar to take the axle nut off.

[idosubaru]

yeah those axle nuts are sometimes crazy tight. if you've got a torch, heating the nut up quickly then going at it can help.

[Ryan02H6]

I also wish I had looked at this before I attempted to change the passenger side axle. Same head, snapped off the same bolt. I had lots of penetrating oil on it for hours before hand, but as soon as it snapped I knew I shouldn't have had a 2' breaker bar on a 10mm bolt I drilled it out and replaced with a 10mm 1.5 x 60mm with red locktight and double nut, I tried a locknut, but found that to get the pinch seem tight all I was doing was destroying the locknut, potentially having it break later down the road.

 

Forgive me for my ignorance, i typically only work off of a service manual, but as my car is the H6 Haynes doesn't make one, and I can't find one anywhere else. I'm pretty much going at everything blind. Does anyone on here know the torque spec for the lower balljoint spindle. I tightened to 58ft/lbs then went to the next spot to get the cotter pin through (likely 58-70ft/lbs) I followed what the specs were for my nissan, cause I thought it might be close. Also Caster angle was mentioned above. Is this the angle (up and down) that the tire makes with the road. I don't understand how this can be adjusted, it seems like it's something set from factory and only changes with suspension cycle, the only way I see to change it, is with longer or shorter springs. The reason I ask, is because a year or so I go, I changed all 4 struts. My passenger side wheel (top) looks to be a little further away from the vehicle than drivers side. I don't notice anything in terms of bump steer or death wobble, everything seems good when driving. I've had an alignment since and it still looks the same. Is this something I should be concerned with?

[ocei77]

 

Here:

http://bustedfingermotorsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=211&sid=2a8b57b6808cf381297f57b40530eed6

 

O.

[johnceggleston]

i typically only work off of a service manual, but as my car is the H6 Haynes doesn't make one, and I can't find one anywhere else.

 

the haynes manual will work for your car except for the items specific to the H6 engine, or the H6engine and VDC trans in my case. the rest of the car is the same, mostly.

 

Here:

http://bustedfingermotorsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=211&sid=2a8b57b6808cf381297f57b40530eed6

O.

 

thanks for the link.

[Ryan02H6]

Here:

http://bustedfingermotorsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=211&sid=2a8b57b6808cf381297f57b40530eed6

 

O.

 

Thanks so much, this will be very helpful. I didn't know that the rest of the car was pretty much the same, The VDC trans is also applicable to me. I will have to pick up a Haynes manual, It sure makes things easier working on any of my other vehicles.

[cjohnsonmn]

I have a related problem/question with a broken pinch bolt head on my 03 ll bean Outback. I'm trying to get the right front axle off the knucke so I can replace the bearing. Well the ball joint pinch bolt cant be loosed because the head snapped off... My question is does that pinch joint also keep the axle on the knuckle? I dont want to force it off with my crank puller if that is the case... but it sounds like they are unrelated and I can maybe push the axle off with the pinch joint still tight around the ball joint? Please help this has taken two days of fruitless research so far...

 

 

I would work around this issue for zero dollars and not waste time. more on that in a minute.

maybe it works on zero rust areas, outside of that it's a terrible method for replacing axles in the northeast/rust prone areas. particularly since there's an easier and 100% foolproof method. once the wheel is removed you only need to remove one bolt to replace the axle - the top strut mount bolt - which is never rusted and much easier to deal with if it is (rare). remove that bolt and loosen the lower one. once that bolt is removed the entire knuckle, with strut still attached, swings "out" away from the car, giving room to pull the axle out. it's a little tight to get out, but comes out every time. pull the inner DOJ up so to speak as you pull the axle out of the hub, then snake it out around all the brake lines, etc.

you need to mark the *head* position of the top bolt so you can reinstall it in the same orientation as it adjusts camber - but that's really easy. use a high quality marker/grease marker, or i just hit the head of the bolt/strut body at the same time with a chisel and line the marks up when i'm done.

i never touch that ball joint bolt around here unless i absolutely have to. also in rust prone areas you'll only get 1 out of 10 ball joints out without destroying the boot so yo'ull be replacing those most of the time as well. adding more work, time, and cost.

not surprising at all, those tools suck. you're best bet is to throw away every bolt extractor you have and never use them again. they cost more time than they save. they're a nuisance. anything that comes out with a bolt extractor is not that difficult to remove by other means. they only work on really easy to remove stuff....which almost never happens since easy to remove stuff doesn't shear off bolts - not in automotive applications anyway. an extractor would have never touched that ball joint pinch bolt, those aren't easy to remove.



i would leave it as is. install that axle like i mentioned above and leave it be, it's not going anywhere. no way that bolt is ever coming out without metal working equipment.

if you're amped to fix it. i would drill the pinch bolt out from the other side where the extractor is not embedded. only the end is threaded, once you get to the sheared off extractor you should be able to use a punch and knock the remaining shaft of the pinch bolt and the extractor out the other side.

once it's all drilled out - just use a large bolt and nut - don't bother threading it or anything it just needs to be able to clamp down which a high quality bolt and nut will do just fine. or if you're really amped up it's not that hard to tap threads either. or even helicoil it back to the original size.

you've got a ton of options, all which can be done without removing/replacing your hub. given the rate of failure of EJ wheel bearings i'd rather keep the known good hub you have than install a hub that's been sitting, rolled around a yard, possibly contaminated, etc. i've had used hubs fail bearings....it's still a good option sometimes since two used hubs are still better fit sometimes than getting into bearings, but you've got a known good hub that was just driving fine - i'd try to keep it.

[Fairtax4me]

The pinch joint has nothing to do with the axle. It only clamps around the lower ball joint. Even if you drill the broken bolt out, the ball joints rust into the knuckle and are just as impossible to remove.

 

Remove the axle nut and tap the end of the axle with a hammer a few times and it should start to slide. If it doesn't, then a puller may be needed.

 

Remove the upper strut bolt, and loosen the lower strut bolt and the knuckle will swing out enough to pull the axle out.

[keith3267]

If you remove the knuckle from the vehicle, you can take to just about any shop that does welding.  They can weld a hardened washer onto the broken end of the bolt and then take it out, the hardened extractor will not be in the way.  If the threads in the knuckle got bunged up, they can be drilled out and a helicoil put in their place.  This is a whole lot cheaper than a new knuckle and bearings.