SchwarzeEwigkt Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 My Outback has been making some pretty loud noises as of late. What I've been reading suggests that it's most likely a rear wheel bearing. I've got 211k on the originals, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was it. I can hear some kind of noise, not really a grinding, more like a whoosh from the back when going slowly like in a parking lot. The real fun begins at 40-50mph. You get a nice resonant sound at that speed. It's pretty freaking loud. I can't seem to tell where it's coming from, either. It seems to come from everywhere at once. It's not load dependent, so that pretty much rules out the diff. It doesn't change while turning and laterally loading/unloading the bearings (swerving back and forth) doesn't change it either. I'm really only left with wheel bearings and the axle carrier bearing. Trouble is, I lifted the car up the other day, pulled on the rear wheels and spun them. No looseness and no strange noises from anywhere. Wheels sound fine, axles, diff and driveshaft. What I read when searching says that you can't use the try-to-rock-the-wheel test on these bearings because once you get to that point it's completely shot. So, other than pulling it apart, which really sucks since it's getting cold out, how am I supposed to test this thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujoking Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Well from your description it definitely seems like you've got a bad bearing. When my right rear one went I had a hell of a time localizing the sound since the vibrations presumably traveled through the suspension and into the body, so the whole car was roaring constantly. The technique I used was to remove the wheel, then spin the hub with one hand while feeling the coil spring with the other hand. The spring tends to magnify any sort of grinding, rubbing or groaning, so it's a bit easier to tell. (I had to put the car in neutral, chock the front wheels, then take off the parking brake and jack up the rear so the wheels could spin freely.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 You can by a automotive stethoscope cheap. They are useful for many things, including this. then all you need is to place the steth on the spring at each corner, while turning the wheel while it is off the ground. guess what, the wheel that spins with grinding sounds through the stethoscope is the bad bearing, 99.99999 percent of the time. it never fails this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 get/borrow one of those infrared thermometer 'gun'-looking deals and compare temps left-to-right side after a drive. Also, have someone pace the car on foot in a parking lot and listen to one side vs the other. I had bad front bearing after some insurance wreck repair work - there definitely was a coupla millimeters movement rocking the wheel after lifting the car - the other side was immovable. Uh, this was on the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) What I read when searching says that you can't use the try-to-rock-the-wheel test on these bearings because once you get to that point it's completely shot. So, other than pulling it apart, which really sucks since it's getting cold out, how am I supposed to test this thing? Right, if you can feel play, you're nearing the point of catastrophic failure. With one hand on the spring coil, rotate the wheel. Any roughness in the bearing will be transmitted to the coil. Mine was making noise that way for 40K miles, and there was not any play in the bearing during that time. Edited November 11, 2011 by hohieu clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I had my wife drive around while I climbed in the far back area of the car and put my ear near each wheel well. If your bearing is loud enough, you will know which one it is by this method. Since you are in rust belt, the lateral link bolt will likely be frozen to its bushings....replacing this bolt and bushings will be your first order of bidness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 I had my wife drive around while I climbed in the far back area of the car and put my ear near each wheel well. If your bearing is loud enough, you will know which one it is by this method. Since you are in rust belt, the lateral link bolt will likely be frozen to its bushings....replacing this bolt and bushings will be your first order of bidness. Right, if you can feel play, you're nearing the point of catastrophic failure. With one hand on the spring coil, rotate the wheel. Any roughness in the bearing will be transmitted to the coil. Mine was making noise that way for 40K miles, and there was any play in the bearing during that time. I'll have to try those things. As for the actual repair once I find out which bearing it is, what parts should I get? It sounds like there are two seals, inner and outer. I've never seen them on any aftermarket lists, so maybe they're dealer only? Obviously, there's the bearing. I'll just pick up a Timken. If I'm lucky, I won't have to destroy the lateral link bolt, but I could get one from the dealer if I have to. Other thing, what's the procedure for using the Harbor Freight FWD bearing set? I took a look at the Hub Tamer and a DIY on an Integra. I'm not sure how the hub gets pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There are 3 seals on my Forester: 2 inner and 1 outer. But it could be different on your Legacy. If you can, I would go with Koyo or NSK bearings. The latter is the OEM supplier to Subaru. For aftermarket seals, you could go with Beck & Arnley. I've had issues with the fitment of Timken seals on my Subaru. To remove the hub, you could use a slide hammer attached to a hub removal attachment -- neither of these things are Subaru specific tools. I managed to tap mine out from the inboard side. Shoot me a PM with your email , and I'll send you a PDF. using hubtamer type tools. That lateral link bolt can be the most time consuming part of the job. You may also need to destroy the lateral link bushings to remove that beast so confirm that your local dealer has the bolt and a couple of those bushings in stock before you dig into things. What happens is that the bolt seizes inside the bushing collars. After I got it out of the car, I tried beating on the bolt with a 3-lb. hammer on top of a vise, and the sucker still wouldn't budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) what's the procedure for using the Harbor Freight FWD bearing set http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1925081 To remove the hub from the knuckle a slide hammer can be rented (purchased and then returned) from Auto Zone or Advance Auto Edited November 11, 2011 by Mike104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 That sort of slide hammer setup is also what I used to pound the outer race of the old bearing out of the knuckle. That was a beeeeeeyatch of a job. The rest went fairly smoothly. You can PM me for my writeup and step by step guide if you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 That'd be great, actually. I'm about 90% sure it's the passenger rear bearing now. I've got a good coupon for Harbor Freight, so I may pick up one of those bearing kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujoking Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'd just like to say that however you get it done, be prepared to experience a near-religious epiphany when you get back in. I spent the better part of an hour driving around in complete silence, just so I could enjoy all those nice boxer sounds that the "wub wub wub" was drowning out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Oh, I'm sure. Though, my snow tires ain't exactly quiet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 So, digging deeper with this it seems that this job requires just a few relatively cheap parts and a ton of expensive tools. But, since Subaru is worried that using a press will bend the bearing carrier, this is how it's going to be. Oh well. On the other hand, I stopped by my local Advance Auto today and the guy there was quite skeptical that I could use the FWD bearing kit to get the bearing out. I'm looking forward to proving him wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 So, I got the tools and am waiting on the bearings to show up. I wasn't planning on doing this quickly, but a deer decided it wanted to wreck my wife's car, so now two out of three are down... Figured I'd get a head start on it on my day off. Of course, since I live in the rust belt, that bloody lateral link bolt is stuck. I really don't want to replace all the bushings stuff. I really just want it to come out. I've been pounding on it for about two hours now. What does it usually freeze to? The link bushings or the passage in the knuckle itself? I'm wondering what to start with when I get the flamethrower out. The other thing is that I'm getting conflicting information as to whether the bearings need to be repacked or are pre-packed with the proper kind of grease. I don't really feel like doing this job again in 5k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy6four Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 So, I got the tools and am waiting on the bearings to show up. I wasn't planning on doing this quickly, but a deer decided it wanted to wreck my wife's car, so now two out of three are down... Figured I'd get a head start on it on my day off. Of course, since I live in the rust belt, that bloody lateral link bolt is stuck. I really don't want to replace all the bushings stuff. I really just want it to come out. I've been pounding on it for about two hours now. What does it usually freeze to? The link bushings or the passage in the knuckle itself? I'm wondering what to start with when I get the flamethrower out. The other thing is that I'm getting conflicting information as to whether the bearings need to be repacked or are pre-packed with the proper kind of grease. I don't really feel like doing this job again in 5k... The bearings are pre-greased, do NOT add any more grease to them. I just replaced a set on a 2000 Forester on Friday. I had the factory manual and factory tools to do the job, so that made life easy. The link bolt was very tight, as it had rusted onto the knuckle. I got it to turn once I had the nut off and put a long breaker bar on it. If you don't have a slide hammer to pull the hub off, I'd recommend using a 3 jaw puller if you have a lrge enough one. Otherwise, you can make a poor-man's puller using a length of chain placed over any two opposing wheel studs(do the nuts up all the way to avoid mashing the stud threads) and a heavy bar(such as an old half shaft from a pickup)The technique is to put the bar thru the chain and snatch it back towards you, thus shocking the chain and pulling the hub out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I've got a slide hammer. I should be able to pull the hub with no trouble. I just wondered about the grease and how people have been pulling the lateral link bolt. I haven't tried twisting the bolt with my breaker bar too hard. I didn't want to break it. I suppose it doesn't matter much if I break it. I'm going to torch it and see how I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Little update. Had to put the project on hold for a while. My wife hit a deer and totaled her car, so we had to get another one. On the bright side, it's another Subaru. Anyway, I did manage to pound the lateral link bolt out. Nasty sucker. I ended up giving up for the evening when I couldn't get the hub to pull out with my slide hammer. I think the bearing is destroyed now. The hub wiggles around. It just won't come out. I was hoping it would come out easily after the debacle the lateral link was. I'll try again tomorrow evening. Any other ideas for teasing the hub out would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Curious to hear more about your lat link bolt. You pulled it out....but did you have to melt the lip of your bushing to get it to budge? I sure did. I replaced bolt and both bushings. Are you going to reuse your bolt and bushings? Are the bushings still frozen to the bolt? Or did you get the bolt to separate from the bushings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdemaris Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You may also need to destroy the lateral link bushings to remove that beast so confirm that your local dealer has the bolt and a couple of those bushings in stock before you dig into things. My dealer never stocks the bolt and with most - I have to torch it out in the middle and then drive out the two halfs. A generic SAE 1/2" x 10" grade 8 bolt works fine as a replacement. I've been using them for years. Obviously I'm talking about the big bolt on the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Curious to hear more about your lat link bolt. You pulled it out....but did you have to melt the lip of your bushing to get it to budge? I sure did. I replaced bolt and both bushings. Are you going to reuse your bolt and bushings? Are the bushings still frozen to the bolt? Or did you get the bolt to separate from the bushings? I soaked it in PB Blaster over a few days and pounded it out with a 3lbs sledge. It took about four hours. And my wrist is messed up. Now I just have to clean up the end of the bolt; I mushroomed it a bit and need to file it down. It's completely out. Now I just have to get the hub to pull out right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I've read through and am confused- why does the lateral link bolt need to come out? I thought the wheel bearing was a bolt-on unit on the rears, you undid the 4 bolts, pressed/hammered the axle out of the hub, then took the wheel bearing/hub assembly to a parts store with a press. I'm sure I missed something, so just prep the dope-slap mackerel and give me a good whack with it. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 I've read through and am confused- why does the lateral link bolt need to come out? I thought the wheel bearing was a bolt-on unit on the rears, you undid the 4 bolts, pressed/hammered the axle out of the hub, then took the wheel bearing/hub assembly to a parts store with a press. I'm sure I missed something, so just prep the dope-slap mackerel and give me a good whack with it. Dave I think on the much newer models it does work kind of like that. On older ones like mine, the bearing is pressed into the rear knuckle. You need to remove the rear lateral link so you can pull the knuckle far enough out to get the axle to come out of the hub. After that happens, you put the lateral link bolt back in, slide hammer the hub out and use a Hub Tamer (or equivalent) to press the old bearing out and the new one in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Oh, thx, I had thought you had a 00-04, similar to mine. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 I wondered where that actually started. My wife and I just picked up an '05 Forester with 69k on it. I don't expect to be doing bearings for easily 8 years with the milage she does, but it's good to be prepared. The rear suspension design looks more or less identical to my Legacy, though. This is good and bad. Good in that I know exactly how it works. Bad in that lateral link bolts are SUCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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