2003 Forester 2.5XS - Sell it or replace the engine?

[ajmaudio]

I have a 2003 Forester 2.5 XS that I bought seven months ago with 129,385 miles on it for $8681 after taxes (current mileage is 136,422). I had the the timing belts and a rear wheel bearing replaced a few months ago, since then the car has been running great. Took it on 1500 mile road trip without issue.

 

Last week I had a full inspection done in preparation for another big road trip. I thought the worst case scenario would be maybe new brake pads........unfortunately this is what the mechanics told me along the repair quotes:

 

1. Headgasket leaking oil to the outside - ($3200-$3300)

 

2. Sterring gear leaking power steering fluid - ($825)

 

3. Spark plug holes are full of oil from the valve cover gaskets - wires are oily ($505)

 

4. Oil leaks at oil cooler adapter to block ($200)

 

5. Brakes have 40% left, warped rotors ($320 each axle)

 

 

So....should I sell it, and if so what would be a fair price? Would it be cheaper/make sense to have a new engine put in and then do steering and brakes?

 

Again, at this point the car runs and drives totally fine. I know that whatever I do I'll end up losing money, just trying to figure out how to minimize the expense.

 

Thanks

[john40iowa]

I have a 2003 Forester 2.5 XS that I bought seven months ago with 129,385 miles on it for $8681 after taxes (current mileage is 136,422). I had the the timing belts and a rear wheel bearing replaced a few months ago, since then the car has been running great. Took it on 1500 mile road trip without issue.

 

Last week I had a full inspection done in preparation for another big road trip. I thought the worst case scenario would be maybe new brake pads........unfortunately this is what the mechanics told me along the repair quotes:

 

1. Headgasket leaking oil to the outside - ($3200-$3300)

 

2. Sterring gear leaking power steering fluid - ($825)

 

3. Spark plug holes are full of oil from the valve cover gaskets - wires are oily ($505)

 

4. Oil leaks at oil cooler adapter to block ($200)

 

5. Brakes have 40% left, warped rotors ($320 each axle)

 

 

So....should I sell it, and if so what would be a fair price? Would it be cheaper/make sense to have a new engine put in and then do steering and brakes?

 

Again, at this point the car runs and drives totally fine. I know that whatever I do I'll end up losing money, just trying to figure out how to minimize the expense.

 

Thanks

 

I have done a lot of work and Had even more work done to my Forester; Those prices seem way too high to me. Perhaps the work could be done a little at time as use continue to use the car.

[WoodsWagon]

If you asked for a full inspection, you pretty much asked them to up-sell you as much work as they could find on the car. If you're asking for all the up-sells they can offer, you obviously have a fat wallet to feed them with, at least from their perspective.

 

The oil leaks can be done one at a time. The oil cooler seal you can actually do without draining the oil or the coolant. Take the filter off, use a 24mm (I think) socket to take the hollow stud out of the middle of it, pull the oil cooler down a bit and swap out the O rings. Should be under $50 including parts to do that job.

 

The leaking headgaskets can probably be ignored for a long time. They're often wet with weeping oil, but not like it's dribbling out. How often do you have to add oil to keep the level on the dipstick up?

 

Valve cover gaskets can be done with the engine in car, and are pretty easy to do the the SOHC phase2 EJ's. Use subaru genuine gaskets, I've had terrible luck with the aftermarket ones. Talk to an indepenent shop and see if they're ok with you supplying them with the gaskets. Plug wires and valve cover gaskets are simple jobs that any shop could handle.

 

Do you feel the brake pedal pulsating when you slow down? Does it shake the steering wheel?

[ajmaudio]

The car seems to consume oil at a normal rate. I had the oil changed when I bought it, and the dipstick was at the halfway mark about 3000 miles later.

 

No brake pedal pulsing when slowing down or steering wheel shake.

[idosubaru]

walk away.

1. Headgasket leaking oil to the outside - ($3200-$3300)

 

2. Sterring gear leaking power steering fluid - ($825)

 

3. Spark plug holes are full of oil from the valve cover gaskets - wires are oily ($505)

 

4. Oil leaks at oil cooler adapter to block ($200)

 

this is all wrong.

#1 is a $1,2000 at the dealer - that price is outrageous

#3 is *always* done, if done by a proper mechanic "with" #1, because you HAVE to remove the valve covers and gaskets to get to the headgsakets (#1) - you'd have to be an idiot to reinstall the original gaskets. most people on here would never do that and #3 is included in #1.

 

#2 and #4 are not a big deal and probably not accurate diagnoses or the complete story. is your power steering working? have you added fluid ever? if it's working and you've never added fluid it's hard to imagine it's a catastrophic failure requiring almost $1,000 in work.

 

they're charging you twice...maybe even 3 times...what the job actually costs for #1 and reselling you part of that service again in #3.

 

properly maintained your car is good for another 100,000 miles easily. might need a thorough headgasket job but nonetheless, it's still capable of a reliable and rather inexpensive 100,000 miles.

 

how to proceed from here:

 

keep an eye on your oil level and let us know how much it's loosing over the course of an oil change. take pictures of the leak and post them here if you like.

 

same with power steering fluid - keep an eye on it and let us know how much it's leaking.

 

these headgaskets are benign when they leak externally like this and can go another 100,000 miles while leaking externally. it might be leaking a lot by then and i'm not saying i recommend it (though i've seen it), just that it's not that alarming really and doesn't need to happen immediately.

[john40iowa]

The car seems to consume oil at a normal rate. I had the oil changed when I bought it, and the dipstick was at the halfway mark about 3000 miles later.

 

No brake pedal pulsing when slowing down or steering wheel shake.

 

My Forester has been faithful member of the family; No more than five hundred hundred dollars in repairs and yours probably will be to. Gary has hit the nail on the head, what you describe "Is all wrong." I would look around for a good reputable shop that works on Subarus and check out their reviews. Good luck to you..

[davebugs]

Run!!!

[bheinen74]

Actually, I am not surprised at the prices they quoted you based on location.

 

Now, are they correct in that it needs all that service, No, but again, not surprised of the list they gave you based on shops like that around here are the same.

 

Now, do you need to have that shop work on the car, no.

 

Would I sell it or fix it.

 

fix it at a reasonable shop but not that xmas list of stuff.

 

Too bad dealers are like that where you live, they are the same here.

 

"1. Headgasket leaking oil to the outside - (that is about 500 in parts including new tbelts)

 

2. Sterring gear leaking power steering fluid - (that is a 50 cent o ring needing replaced)

 

3. Spark plug holes are full of oil from the valve cover gaskets - wires are oily (all new gaskets on the valve covers and bolt seals and new plug wires, cost is 85)

 

4. Oil leaks at oil cooler adapter to block (whatever, probably using some inferior oil filter and if changed to good one no leaks)

 

5. Brakes have 40% left, warped rotors (new brake paas and rotor each whel is 70)

"

Edited November 13, 2011 by bheinen74

[ajmaudio]

Is a terrible idea to take this car 1500 miles round trip in two weeks?

[LokeDawgg]

]

Edited September 24, 2014 by LokeDawgg

[john40iowa]

Is a terrible idea to take this car 1500 miles round trip in two weeks?

 

If it were me and money was in an issue, Just for peace of mind, I would do the valve cover gaskets- should be under a hundred dollars and the oil line cooler seal you mentioned. Should make the trip no problem, though I would keep a close eye on things.

[Fairtax4me]

It's a terrible Idea to go back to that shop.

Fix the valve cover gaskets, about $70 in parts from a dealer and a few hours of your time, but is easily done on your own. Keep an eye on the power steering fluid level, top off occasionally if needed. Leave the rest alone.

 

Valve cover gasket leaks are common on these, and quite often the oil tracks towards the middle of the engine and makes it look like other parts (head gaskets, steering rack) are leaking badly.

 

Replace the valve cover gaskets and go on your trip.

[davebugs]

For the prices quoted you could rent a car for trip and have a DIFFERENT competent shop fix the Forester and still be money ahead...

[GeneralDisorder]

Take your trip - carry coolant, and oil, and 1 quart of ATF for the power steering. Check your fluids every morning and top off as needed on your trip.

 

Find a board member in your area that can take care of the rest for 1/4 the price that shop quoted.

 

Tell your friends to avoid that shop.

 

GD

[bheinen74]

I just cannot understand why the shops in this part of the US are so terrible.

 

Just this past weekend, on the Facebook Iowa Subaru Club, someone just got their car back from Ramsey (the worst Subaru dealer in the nation).

 

This is the post

"Kyle Den Hartog

just got my car back from Ramsey from getting the radiator and timing belt changed. Long story short I now have 4 cylinders misfiring."

[J A Blazer]

Amen to what everyone else has said. I would add that, regarding # 3, it is not the valve cover gaskets per se that are bad; its the seal between the spark plug tubes and the underside of the valve cover that will leak over time, causing oil to coat the spark plug and the plug wire. But in order to replace them you have to replace the valve cover gaskets, the bolt hole grommets, and the tube seals. But that is an item of repair that can be deferred a long time, and as others have said, would be included in a head gasket job.

[cal_look_zero]

I have a 2003 Forester 2.5 XS that I bought seven months ago with 129,385 miles on it for $8681 after taxes (current mileage is 136,422). I had the the timing belts and a rear wheel bearing replaced a few months ago, since then the car has been running great. Took it on 1500 mile road trip without issue.

 

Last week I had a full inspection done in preparation for another big road trip. I thought the worst case scenario would be maybe new brake pads........unfortunately this is what the mechanics told me along the repair quotes:

 

1. Headgasket leaking oil to the outside - ($3200-$3300)

 

2. Sterring gear leaking power steering fluid - ($825)

 

3. Spark plug holes are full of oil from the valve cover gaskets - wires are oily ($505)

 

4. Oil leaks at oil cooler adapter to block ($200)

 

5. Brakes have 40% left, warped rotors ($320 each axle)

 

 

So....should I sell it, and if so what would be a fair price? Would it be cheaper/make sense to have a new engine put in and then do steering and brakes?

 

Again, at this point the car runs and drives totally fine. I know that whatever I do I'll end up losing money, just trying to figure out how to minimize the expense.

 

Thanks

 

#1 is less than $500 diy, shouldn't be more than $1200 to have a shop do it. I'd get compression, leakdown, and cooling system pressure tests done before I tore into it though. As mentioned above, the HGs can often times "weep" oil long before the gasket fails.

 

#2 not worth noting unless you have a massive amount of fluid loss and lack of power steering as a result.

 

#3 as mentioned above, in conjunction with #1. Plugs and wires should run you about $40

 

#5 less than $200 to have the rotors turned at O'reilly's or similar and buy new pads.

[J A Blazer]

Question: Is leaking oil really evidence of a bad head gasket? I thought the leak would be coolant, not oil. Maybe what your mechanic is seeing is oil from the valve cover gaskets, not the head gasket. I'd get a second opinion.

[GeneralDisorder]

EJ251's weep coolant AND oil from the head gaskets. That is their failure mode.

 

GD

[jarl]

Or just sell it. I'll give you $350 for it. Oh wait... you are kind of far...

[ShawnW]

Drop it off here in Denver at my shop, fly home, and fly back for the car in a week. Could probably even have it done all same day but a long one. Virtually everything they quoted is double what I would charge and some of it could be combined (spark plug tube seals are part of the head gasket job), (steering rack slightly easier with engine out), etc.

 

Those prices are down right ridiculous.

[WoodsWagon]

Is a terrible idea to take this car 1500 miles round trip in two weeks?

I've driven cars in much worse shape longer distances. Non of the problems listed in your inspection are a safety concern. Check and top off the fluid levels before you hit the road each morning, and you should be fine.

[ajmaudio]

Update:

 

I took the original estimate into another shop, they also thought the prices quoted were ridiculous. The tech told me not to worry too much about the HG leak. He said it looked more like residue rather than an actual leak, and suggested (as most of you on this forum have) that I not worry too much about getting it fixed right away and to monitor fluid levels.

 

I was quoted (from the new shop) $500 with tax to replace the valve cover gaskets and the oil cooler leak.

[Olnick]

Way to go ajmaudio, you were wise to find another shop that had a more "reasonable" approach to the problems. Although (and maybe this is just me) $500 still seems steep for VC gaskets and fixing a simple leak!

 

Anyway, enjoy your trip--and check your levels!

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes that's still very steep - the oil leak from the oil cooler is about an extra 10 minutes on top of an oil change and each of the valve covers is less than an hour. You should pay no more than $300 parts and labor for both. That's $100 for parts (still high as they would be about $40 from the dealer) and two hours at dealer labor rates of basically $100 per hour.

 

GD