weber 32/36 return fuel line, FPR?

[c0r3f1ght3r]

I've been trying to get the most mpg out of my weber, but also trying to figure out some problems I've been having with it. I get around 26mpg and do about half and half city/highway driving. I would say thats pretty good, but I've seen better.

 

Problems I'm having with the weber is a lot of the time when its warmed up and I let it sit for say 30min and try to start it I have to pump the gas about 3-4 times and it seems like fuel is leaking from the carb into the engine because I can even hear it sizzling and I can see drops leaking down the carb when I take off the air filter. I'm wondering if a return fuel line would help this issue, and maybe installing a fuel pressure regulator on the send fuel line. I've seen a few pressure regulators but I wouldn't know which one to buy, and same goes for the return fuel line, I'm wondering where I can buy the screw that you can swap with that bronze screw on the carb that would seem to be an optional return fuel line port. Any tips would be great. Thanks in advance!

[El Presidente]

26 mpg's is really good and I'd be happy with that. Have you tried ethanol free gas? It's usually good for 2-3 mpg's as well as an increase in power, smoother idle and zero ill affects. I've heard of 30+ mpg's webers, but from what I've read on the board you start affecting performance when you get up there.

 

One thing that can be done is to move the accelerator pump lever to the #1 position. There should be three positions, most come set at #2. You might be a little sluggish on takeoffs, but it should help with the MPG's

 

Seeing liquified gasoline in the carb is normal after running it, its just the last bit the motor sucked out or its from pumping the gas pedal when not running. I've owned a few webers on different cars and they've all needed at least 2-3 pumps of the pedal to start right up after sitting. The sizzle sound can be from gas dripping off of the carb and boiling on the intake manifold floor. As long as its not leaking OUTSIDE the carb, your good.

 

What is this Weber on? Which model of Weber? Do you know what your pressure is at now? I think EA81 and EA82 N/A cars are set at 2.5-4psi

 

Webers(DG series) are picky(better ones, Italian built) and need 1.5-4psi. DF series(holley 5200's found on fords, chevy's, amc's and dodge's) are more forgiving and can handle as high as 6-7psi, but still operate at 2psi. I'm running a DFAV off a 74 pinto.

 

A fuel return line will not help your mpg's and modifying a non return weber into one, my ruin it or make it do weird things. If its not a return style carb, just leave it alone.

 

Ethanol free gas:

http://pure-gas.org/

Select your state near the bottom to find a list of stations in your area

 

Josh

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Yes, more info of the engine and the Weber itself will clear the situation.

I had the "Leaking fuel" problem long time ago on my 32/36 Weber and it was done by a Worn Accelerator's pump diaphragm.

If your subaru was Carbureted already before the Weber Swap, the Fuel pump is enough for it and shall not need the Return Line, unless it was EFi, because those have a more powerful Fuel Pumps.

Kind Regards.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[Redcap]

Sounds like a rebuild on your Weber may help (it is REALLY easy).

 

My dead-head Weber setup with no pressure regulator gets between 26-30mpg, mostly in town driving verified by my GPS and that is shifting the EA82 @ 4-5k with 185/60/R14s.

[c0r3f1ght3r]

well the weber is pretty damn new, its a weber 32/36 dgev. I haven't tried ethanol free. Its my daily driver and work pays for gas, but only can use Chevron.

[c0r3f1ght3r]

one thing that does bother me is that the manual for that carb says you should only have to turn out the idle mix screw 2 full turns and it should be leaned out enough, but for me to get it turned its turned out probably around 3-4 turns, and it still only idles around 600 K unless I turn the idle speed screw in quite a bit. the guy I bought it from had it on a subaru brat as well so the idle jet should be right.

[Redcap]

one thing that does bother me is that the manual for that carb says you should only have to turn out the idle mix screw 2 full turns and it should be leaned out enough, but for me to get it turned its turned out probably around 3-4 turns, and it still only idles around 600 K unless I turn the idle speed screw in quite a bit. the guy I bought it from had it on a subaru brat as well so the idle jet should be right.

 

What is your jetting? With a carb someone else has had their fingers in, it is always good to verify...

[El Presidente]

The idle speed should be turned out no more than 3 turns IIRC...going to far will make the transfer circuit kick in and mileage will be horrible..going to far out and the butterflies will block the idle port and it willn't want to run. I think the spec for the air/fuel is 1 1/2-2 1/2 turns out IIRC. A lot of guides say to start at 2 turns to get it started. If your not within, or at least close to these numbers, start looking around for vacuum leaks or wrong size jets and emulsion tubes. Float levels are very important with these carbs too and if they're wrong, it will make the whole carb not work properky. plastic should be at 35mm closed, 51mm open and brass floats should be at 40mm closed to 50mm open. For offroad/aggressive driving set the float to to no more than 44.5mm drop.

 

Carb guides are just that..carb guides. Not all carbs are the same and any guide should be taken with a grain of salt. My DF doesn't want an idle jet, so I'm not running one, just a jet holder. It came factory with one and I've cleared the entire thing out. Its runs great BTW! Haven't seen that in a manual, but DF's do have more personality..

[c0r3f1ght3r]

When I drove from UT down to GA I averaged around 320miles to the tank with probably 300lbs of stuff crammed into the back of the brat. I have not checked the idle jets, I'm a noob when it comes to this carb stuff, well cars in general... Something seems to of happened to the carb one time when I was offroading, got stuck in a mud water hole and water got into the oil because the oil pump gasket is leaking, motor would run. I flushed the motor out afterwards but it ran like garbage and I had to adjust the carb a lot differently to get to run. I've run a lot of carb cleaner through it and seafoam a few times, but I can never get it to the settings I had before. I think maybe I need to take it off and disassemble it, let it sit in my some pine sol for a few hours. I did this with the carbs on my honda cb650 which ran like poo and it ran awesome afterwards.

[c0r3f1ght3r]

I also noticed that I do not have anything connected to my EGR, or maybe I'm confused. The egr is capped off because I could find anywhere to connect it to on the carb. But the valve covers have a hose running into a 3 way connector which is running into the throttle body. I have little hoses connecting to each other on all the vacuum holes that it previously had. Some are capped off by screws. I notice on the connecting portions of the valve cover hoses is residue so it seems like there is definitely some leakage going on there. Does anyone have a guide or a picture of their weber 32/36 setup because I want to cap these vacuum holes off better, but I'm not sure what to use? Owning this Brat has taught me a lot about cars lol, well older cars >_>

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...Does anyone have a guide or a picture of their weber 32/36 setup because I want to cap these vacuum holes off better, but I'm not sure what to use? ...

 

Here you Go:

 

~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/71510-ideas-on-swaping-a-weber-carb-on-ea82%C2%B4s/

 

The Last Post on that writeup, has the Pictures and indications for the EA82, yours is a EA81 but the Main ideas applies as well.

 

Kind Regards.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[c0r3f1ght3r]

Here you Go:

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74206

 

The Last Post on the Thread (is a Single Page thread) has the Pictures and indications for the EA82, yours is a EA81 but the Main ideas applies aswell.

 

Kind Regards.

 

thanks!

[c0r3f1ght3r]

only problem with your thread is the EGR has been removed and blocked off, my EGR is still there, and I've read other threads stating its better to have the egr valve in the mix than not.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Yes, but I tell how to Hook the EGR with a Weber there, in case you want to keep it.

 

You'll obtain mixed opinions in the EGR in EA82's subject; as in other "Mixed Opinions" subjects, the better way is whatever you choose...

Kind Regards.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[El Presidente]

Use vacuum caps an all the unused vacuum ports, you can get them at any parts house.

 

As far as your PCV system(the hoses coming out of the valve covers) run one hose from your pcv valve to one valve cover and the other hose goes from the OTHER valve cover to the air cleaner, making a loop of air from your air cleaner, through your motor, and up to the PCV valve.

 

The EGR valve is solely for emissions and it benefits you motor 0%. It will not melt/harm your motor to take it off or disable it. EGR's do rob power and performance at the top end, but not much, however every little bit helps. EGR's do make the inside of your motor more dirty and fouled. These are facts and not opinion.

 

The only logical reason to keep your EGR working is if you need to pass emissions.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...The EGR valve is solely for emissions and it benefits you motor 0%. It will not melt/harm your motor to take it off or disable it. EGR's do rob power and performance at the top end, but not much, however every little bit helps. EGR's do make the inside of your motor more dirty and fouled. These are facts and not opinion...

 

I Agree... well, even Subaru agreed because the Third Gen EA82 Heads (The ones that didn't came stock on any EA82, those were improved Replacement Heads) Does not have the EGR Passage.

Kind Regards.

[c0r3f1ght3r]

If I wanted to put in a return fuel line, where can I order the inlet that would screw into the weber carb?

[El Presidente]

You could try Redline, but your going to have to drill and tap the carb bung to put it in. Doing this, your treading in f'd up carb territory...if your hell bent on a fuel return, get a FPR with a return line on it. You don't need one at all though, and it really isn't going to help anything...seriously. Its just going to cost money and you'll get the same MPG's and performance. Some of the later Weber DF's(76ish+) on Pintos, Vega's and I think the Gremlins had fuel returns, but they also had emissions too with carbon canisters and all that crap.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Well... the 32/36 Weber carb I have on my BumbleBeast, has the inlet line placed in a Dual side part of the Carb, where one side comes closed with a screw.

Seems like you can use that inlet line either way, because the carb has threaded ends in both sides; also it makes me think that you can screw a Return line in the non used side, isn't it?

However, There's other option... you can find one "Y" Shaped inlet tube, those are tight "Y" and has one opening 5/16" for fuel inlet while the other opening in 1/4 for fuel return; and screw it instead of the single line Fuel inlet on the carb.

But maybe the Fuel flow will not be enough with that return line.

Kind Regards.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo

[TeamCF]

I'm gathering parts and bits for my Weber swap and was thinking about the return line as well.

Had a few thoughts.

 

A: Just plug the return line and call it good. (Which seems to be the most traveled path)

 

B: I've read somewhere in an old post on here that maybe the fitting from the Hitachi fits on the Weber? The Hitachi fitting has the "Y" for the return. This would need to be verified if the threads are the same. Not taken mine apart yet. That would be super simple if it matched up, though I kinda doubt it is the same....

 

C: Leave the Weber side of it alone. Get a brass "T" fitting that has a smaller port off the side (Had one in my hand the other day), and use a couple inches of fuel line between that and the carb, and off the small side fitting you connect the return line.

 

Just a few things I've been throwing around in my head. Will proly look at all 3 options when I tear into it tonight. A will proly win. But C would be nice if it all played well together.

My GL has the evap canister and such and I kind of wanted to connect everything up "like factory" just because. The fact I have DEQ to go through next month is affecting my choices a bit here as well. (the Hitachi took a pretty good dump, I knew it was just plain worn out when I rebuilt it last year, but a rebuild got me by. This is why I'm not gonna even try to DEQ and then swap. I know the Weber should pass as it came off of a Brat that recently passed with it on not too far from me. But it was all removed so I didn't see how it was hooked up before, but I think he eliminated the return. He's doing an EJ swap)

Edited December 1, 2011 by TeamCF

[TeamCF]

An update on what I've found by scouring the net for 4 days and during the install last night (which was painless, I guess gathering a multitude of hoses, clamps, fittings and such was just good planning. )

 

Just about every site I've found on the matter. (Jeep, Opal, MG, Datsun, Nissan, Toyota, forums.) Recommends this setup for the 32/36.

Starting from the carb and going back the order is this. Carb, quality FPR with gauge set between 3-3.5psi, "T" for a return line (Or get a gauge, adjust your psi ans then attach the return to the extra FPR port). And most recommend an additional see through inline filter as well for insurance just before all that (as well as whatever filters your vehicle came with).

 

Seems like overkill to some, but I read over and over that though you'll get it good, it'll never tune absolutely perfect without the right pressure.

 

As for me. My return is blocked right now. I am going to add a "T" and hook it back up though just before the carb. And will proly pick up a decent FPR (All recommended the Holley FPR, the $30 Mr. Gasket one you can pick up easy is junk from what I've read) Soon so I can dial it in. but that's just me. Needing to DEQ it next month, I'm looking for all the advantages I can.

I'll have to put my Y-pipe with the cat back on to and re-tune. (I leave it off as it's always finding rocks and they get $$$$$ after awhile)

Exhaust has a good smell to it. The Hitachi always stank.

 

Mine is running pretty good though after some adjustments last night. Only has a slight hiccup when you are cruising and go romp on it, half second of hesitation, then it rips. Never knew my GL had such a torque steer problem....

Starts easy, idles smooth, shuts right off with no dieseling.

[jodaddy]

My old jeep grand wagoneer had a one in two out fuel filter which served as the return line. The center out went to the carb and the offset one was the return. Should work just fine unless the filter media is used for a higher fuel pressure. Wouldn't be too hard to find out if you wanted to go this route. Good luck. Joe

[TeamCF]

Yeah my Soob already has a return line. I just plugged it off as the carb has nothing to hook to it.

 

And it should be noted that the factory Subaru return line has a 0.7mm orifice in it to restrict flow. This is an insert pressed into the fitting at the carb. I confirmed this with an emissions system diagram. So the return is not huge. But it's there to let a bit of excess pressure just go back to the tank.

 

Speaking of the pressure thing. I looked at the stock Soob pump specs.

2 to 8 psi is the operating range of the stock pump in my GL. Doubt it reaches that after all these years. But that will make a Weber VERY unhappy if it still can. (Incorrect fuel pressure is just about the #1 thing I've been reading is a mistake that makes them hard to tune perfectly)

 

I have a brand new 2 to 4 psi Facet pump sitting here. Perfect as I can get for now.

The Weber also requires up to 6 gallons per hour for a 200 horsepower application (I wish I cold get to that power!).

My new pump can provide 23gph. So I'm good there.

 

I'll have to pick up a gauge to measure the pressure. Thought I had one here. But I guess not.