General Subaru noob dumb questions

[PadreScout]

Hi there! As I mentioned in my intro I am in the market for a nice GL. I've been kind of researching a bit and learned a lot, but also been confused by a lot of stuff that evidently I should know, but do not. here is a bit of a running list, if you guys could help I'd sure appreciate it.

 

 

EA81/EA82, it's engine codes, yeah? I know these somehow relate to the year model but I don't understand how. The wikipedia shows some overlap in the 80s between the two.... which is the motor to have and why? Is motor code all that this describes?

 

Tires: Stock tire size on these Loyales is a 13 inch of some sort- but most tires I see on the pictures look to be 15s of some sort.... these are all lifted vehicles or the body is modified to fit larger rubber?

 

roof racks and bull bars and such: I love them, according to that "check out the cool old Subaru!" thread the Subarus even seemed to come with the things at some point (the one I want to buy doesn't, hence my interest in acquiring one). Where are you guys getting these things? Custom built or are there vendors out there that cater to the old Subaru market? Same question regarded roof racks.

 

 

The 4 wheel drive, I am looking at a car to buy specifically (looking good so far, might have it Friday!) and it doesn't have that orange 4 wheel drive button on the shift knob, so .. how do you engage the 4 wheel fun? Evidently the RX trim had all-time 4 wheel, I assume this 88 GL doesn't so how does that work?

 

Returning to all this lifting/big tire fun, how do the little 1.8 litres handle the bigger tires? I have a mild fantasy of eventually dropping in a little diesel of some sort, in the time before then I kind of want to go up in tire size but am afraid I will really guy the acceleration doing it. How is you guys experience with that?

[Vegablade]

Hi there! As I mentioned in my intro I am in the market for a nice GL. I've been kind of researching a bit and learned a lot, but also been confused by a lot of stuff that evidently I should know, but do not. here is a bit of a running list, if you guys could help I'd sure appreciate it.

 

 

EA81/EA82, it's engine codes, yeah? I know these somehow relate to the year model but I don't understand how. The wikipedia shows some overlap in the 80s between the two.... which is the motor to have and why? Is motor code all that this describes?

 

Tires: Stock tire size on these Loyales is a 13 inch of some sort- but most tires I see on the pictures look to be 15s of some sort.... these are all lifted vehicles or the body is modified to fit larger rubber?

 

roof racks and bull bars and such: I love them, according to that "check out the cool old Subaru!" thread the Subarus even seemed to come with the things at some point (the one I want to buy doesn't, hence my interest in acquiring one). Where are you guys getting these things? Custom built or are there vendors out there that cater to the old Subaru market? Same question regarded roof racks.

 

 

The 4 wheel drive, I am looking at a car to buy specifically (looking good so far, might have it Friday!) and it doesn't have that orange 4 wheel drive button on the shift knob, so .. how do you engage the 4 wheel fun? Evidently the RX trim had all-time 4 wheel, I assume this 88 GL doesn't so how does that work?

 

Returning to all this lifting/big tire fun, how do the little 1.8 litres handle the bigger tires? I have a mild fantasy of eventually dropping in a little diesel of some sort, in the time before then I kind of want to go up in tire size but am afraid I will really guy the acceleration doing it. How is you guys experience with that?

 

Ok here it goes.

 

1. EA81 is the older pushrod motor and it came in the Gen 2 Wagons/Sedans/Hatchbacks/Brats which i believe the Hatch and Brat ran until 87.

 

The EA82 ran from 85 up to 1994 and came Carbureted/Fuel Injected in GL/DL Wagons/Coupes/RX/Sedans and Loyales which are just GL's.

 

2. Stock wheels are 13". You can upgrade with Peugeot wheels or by drilling 6 lug toyota wheels, or converting your hubs to 6 lug. For anything much bigger then a stock tire you will have some rubbing and will need a lift to clear, or trim/beat the crap out of the fenders/wheel wells.

 

3. A lot of bumpers now are custom, they did offer some when the cars came out but i dont know how available they are.

 

Roof racks are pretty generic, i run Yakima bars with a Load Warrior basket.

 

4. On a 88 you might have a dual range which would have a lever down below the shifter next to the parking break which will pull up to engage FWD/4WD/4WD LO. Or it could be 2wd. RX's had full time 4wd with a center locking diff on the stick.

 

5. I run 27" tires on my car, the motor does alright, i drove it about 600 miles round trip and held about 60-65 on the free way, though i guess i could do 70 if i wanted. It does not like the mountains at all. One Eye runs 31x10.50x15 Super Swampers on his 8" wagon with a EA81 and its....different lol but he made the same trip.

 

For more power just go with a EJ22 out of legacy from 90 and newer bolted up to the DR transmission. A diesel would destroy the front suspension with all that weight.

 

 

There is tons of information on here, i just scratched the surface, use the search function and you can find almost answers you need.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Vegablade

[PadreScout]

Ok here it goes.

 

For more power just go with a EJ22 out of legacy from 90 and newer bolted up to the DR transmission. A diesel would destroy the front suspension with all that weight.

 

 

 

First Off thank you very much for the information, I find I am below the cusp of knowledge where I know what questions to ask so I can find what I need easily, so I really appreciate you taking the time to help me get there.

 

Second, this DR tranny, I assume that is the transmission a 88 GL comes with, so I can simplely drop in this EJ22 and itll bolt right up? How does it sit engine mount wise cause frankly the ability to drop in a more modern powerplant is exciting to me.

[6 Star]

this DR tranny, I assume that is the transmission a 88 GL comes with, so I can simplely drop in this EJ22 and itll bolt right up? How does it sit engine mount wise cause frankly the ability to drop in a more modern powerplant is exciting to me.

 

You never told us; is the transmission in the '88 you are buying an auto or a manual? If it is an auto, and doesn't have the pushbutton, then its just a fwd 3spd automatic. If its a 5spd manual, then it has the chance of being the 4wd tranny. Or it may be just a fwd 5spd manual.

You should look into that.

[PadreScout]

You never told us; is the transmission in the '88 you are buying an auto or a manual? If it is an auto, and doesn't have the pushbutton, then its just a fwd 3spd automatic. If its a 5spd manual, then it has the chance of being the 4wd tranny. Or it may be just a fwd 5spd manual.

You should look into that.

 

I apologize, it is the 5 speed manual with a 2 range transfer case. That's about the only thing I knew I wanted on the car.

[6 Star]

I apologize, it is the 5 speed manual with a 2 range transfer case. That's about the only thing I knew I wanted on the car.

 

Nice.

As far as dropping in an EJ series engine, it is a bit easier when keeping the ea82 dualrange tranny, but you still need to do some custom fabwork to bolt the engine and tranny together. Also you have to wire the new engines ECU to the ea82's. I have never done the swap before, so I don't know all the details.

And as Vegablade said, the fwd, 4wd, 4wd lo selection is on a little lever next to the ebrake.

[GeneralDisorder]

The hard reality is that the dual-range (which is not a seperate transfer case) is not that special - especially with larger tires which the EA82 isn't that great at turning. Ultimately, unless you build a custom transmission you are stuck with 3.9:1 final drive ratio and the measly 1.6:1 reduction of the dual-range is eaten up by larger tires almost immediately. Then you have the 90 HP engine that can't turn large tires for beans...... and EA82's are a pain to work on and widely regarded as one of Subaru's worst engines....

 

What this all amounts to is that a 90 to 94 Legacy is a much better option. Both in price (around $1500 to $2k for a prime example and I've been given them for free on the low end) and performance - especially the automatic's as the torque converter acts like a low-range when off-road and they have traction advantages over the part-time systems. In addtion you can bolt-in final drive ratio's as low as 4.444:1 and Outback struts/springs/tires for a "factory" lift kit that's good for about 3" without any hassle.

 

I'll take an automatic, stock height Forester with a welded rear diff and some agressive tires anywhere a 4" lifted GL with a dual-range will go and be more comfortable and have spent less money doing it.

 

With as old as the EA's are getting and as many miles as most of them have - the Legacy's are just an all-around better choice. Higher quality, more power, easier to work on, etc.

 

The one exception would be the EA81 hatchbacks. They have the light and small advantage that no EA82 can claim. They have potential but it still takes more work to realize it than just going with a Forester, etc.

 

GD

[PadreScout]

Hmm, the information on a Legacy is interesting, I googled the car and I'm not sure it speaks to me. I may be screwing up here, but my impulse is to go with the GL simply because I like it better, despite being a mechanically inferior machine. My spidey-sense tells me this decision could very well come back to bite me in the butt.

[92_rugby_subie]

Stubies Subie on here bought a Loyale wagon... he liked the body style... Yes the motor has some issues, but it is still a good motor if you take care of it... if you want to start your car and go and never check the fluids, never perform maintenance... please dont buy a Subaru lol.

 

He listened to the voices of advice on here that told him to buy a Legacy wagon, but ultimately loved the looks of the Loyale... after some work and... lots of money his EA82 is doing really good and he enjoys it.

 

I myself drive a 1986 Subaru GL sedan, 5 speed D/R. Its a EA82 with a Weber 32/36 DGEV carb on it and I love it.. I have no problems with hills or anything, even when I ran 195/60/15s (15" Peugeot Alloys) I still didnt notice a drop in power UNTIL I sold them and got back some 13" steelies on 175/70/13s... Now I notice I can chirp the tires into 3rd gear under heavy acceleration... So there is some power loss in bigger tires, but it depends on how you want to do it.

My future plans involve a suspension lowering, bigger motor, AWD conversion, 5-lug swap, etc. Others involve lifting and offroading, Ill buy a beater car for that, personally I think my car is too nice to beat the snot out of

 

I didnt read other replies in depth, but I did notice your question about dropping in the EJ22... The EJ22 requires a custom adapter plate from SJR and stripping an EJ22 wiring harness and re-wiring it into the EA body... not a simple task, but I myself will eventually learn the wire stripping part of it... but Ill end up paying GeneralDisorder to swap the EJ22T or FrankenMotor into my car and wire it in down the road.

[GeneralDisorder]

My spidey-sense tells me this decision could very well come back to bite me in the butt.

 

Definately. The GL is a POS by comparison and it will bite you. It bites everyone that owns them to one degree or another - many of the people that own and drive them are used to their nature and dismiss their tendancies to nickle and dime you but that's how they are.

 

I understand that the body style of the early Legacy is not as cool and retro to a lot of folks as the EA82's but things bought because of looks and not for what you intend to use them for are often a poor fit in the end.

 

You really, really should turn and run away from the EA82 chassis. It's not a bad platform for an engine swap but with how primitive they are by comparison (yet not nearly primitive enough to be rugged and ultra-dependable like the EA81's) to the Legacy it's just a silly purchase now that the price of GL's and Legacy's is nearly the same. You get 10x the car for your money with a Legacy.

 

Trust me - I do this every day. Without fail if I tell someone to reconsider on the GL's and they buy one anyway - they regret it within a month.

 

GD

[92_rugby_subie]

Trust me - I do this every day. Without fail if I tell someone to reconsider on the GL's and they buy one anyway - they regret it within a month.

 

GD

 

Unless you set-up the GL... I dont regret buying NED at all... I think hes a great car...

 

I will swap the motor eventually but its doing just fine... even with a bad HG, but Ill rebuild the EA82 and then run it until the swap and then resell it.

[PadreScout]

Yeah, that's the thing, I drove a bunch of old ORVs in highschool so I am not intimidated at all by having to do some work - but my favorite rig (the Scout) was like ... super super super super simple. This GL could be on the cusp of "oh poop, electronic stuff they haven't made in 15 years are breaking". This happens to my BMW K75 all the time and it's a real hassle.

 

 

 

I /want/ to go GL, but I might just listen to saner opinions this time and go Legacy. I'll think on this more.....

 

 

thank you for all the advice!!

[zukiru]

GD is absolutely right.

 

just one problem. 1st gen legacies make me sick to look at (save a sedan here and there with some serious time into the looks department.)

 

I have two XTs because I love the funky styling and with the MPFI and good aerodynamics they are entertaining enough on the street. if they had carburetors I might have shot myself in the foot already. (TBI swap! go!)

 

the EA82 wagon sedan and especially the 3 door coupe, are all much better looking than a first or second gen legacy to me.

 

if you are wanting to have an easy off road experience then listen to GD.

if you want to buy a car you like because you like it then do that.

you can always sell it in a year and buy a legacy. (or the much better shaped impreza)

 

is this car you are looking a wagon, sedan, or coupe?

[95legwagon]

my 2 cents lol. listen to gd he is VERY knowledgable in subarus in general. and also i own a 95 legacy and i absolutly love it! but you HAVE to understand 2 things: Take car of it and it WILL take care of you. And 2: once you own a subaru the possibilities are endless and you will find yourself wanting more n more stuff done to it...... ive had mine for a year now and it has the ej22 engine which is a great engine dont get me wrong but i want an ej22T (which is the turbo engine) i have a speed and torque fancy i havent quite fulfilled yet with any car ive owned BUT ive also blown head gaskets and trannys on many a car and i tell you what- these ej22's can take a beating for sure! definitly a great engine by far and imo they are the best engine subaru ever built. i am just in need of a lil more power so i want a turbo

 

ok im done now

 

hope this helps

-Jarrid

[heartless]

well - to each thier own really - I had a GL wagon first and got a lot of miles out of the old girl before the rust took her away.

 

I drive a first gen Legacy now, and plan on putting a bunch of miles on it - but there are times when i miss the old GL - not for it's looks - cause it was one ugly little car (salt cancer) but just the general quirkiness of it, and the 32 mpg i used to get... (legacy gets around 26-27 average, if i keep up with the slow leak tires...)

The Legacy has more "elbow" room, and more creature comforts, and is a LOT easier to do little things to, simply by swapping parts from one model to another. (think Lego's building blocks - if your car doesnt have it, find one that does, snag the parts, and put them in)

 

I found that they were both pretty easy to work on, each in it's own way, but parts for the Legacy are a wee bit easier to come by - as in the parts house is more likely to have something in stock rather than have to order it & wait 2 or 3 days...(and yes, this should be a consideration when buying an older car!)

 

Living where I live, rust free used parts are almost impossible to get, unless i can get something from someone here that lives in a no salt area...and honest truth - the "good" EA82 stuff is getting harder and harder to come by.

 

so - having owned both models - and worked on both models - my vote would be for the Legacy - but i really do miss the old GL sometimes - not really sure why, but i do... (and the tv ad is true - you never forget your first Subaru)

[92_rugby_subie]

I gotta say though, for simplicity the EA82 is better... in a simplistic way the carb EA82 is best.

 

I look at my own engine bay (carb EA82), the SPFI EA82, the EJ22 and the EJ22T and the EJ25 and think to myself "I have room in my engine bay, whereas the others do not, its cramped"

 

Its not as cramped as GDs friends 300zx but... still.

[GeneralDisorder]

I gotta say though, for simplicity the EA82 is better... in a simplistic way the carb EA82 is best.

 

If that's your big concern then really it should not be ignored that the EA82 carbed engine bay is a NIGHTMARE prior to doing a Weber swap and even afterwards an EA81 is still much simpler yet. If you want to go the simplicity route - then you really need to get an EA81. You will find that my stable includes EA81's both running Weber's and running the EA82's SPFI system as well as EJ22's and EJ25 frankenmotors..... no where will you find any EA82's. Experience has shown they are not the right answer .

 

I look at my own engine bay (carb EA82), the SPFI EA82, the EJ22 and the EJ22T and the EJ25 and think to myself "I have room in my engine bay, whereas the others do not, its cramped"

 

Well - in all fairness the EA82 happens to be more cramped - the engine is overall the widest that Subaru ever made and thus there is very little room to get to things like valve cover gaskets, etc. Then there is that stupid (really, really stupid) mechanical water pump fan on the AC equipped models.... that's a whore to work around. The EJ's are simpler in a lot of ways - no silly cam towers, no cork oil pan gaskets, no poorly designed lubrication system complete with abundance of deterorated o-rings and ticking lifters, and no wacky dual-timing belts that last 50k on a good run. The EA82 is a collection of what-not-to-do and Subaru definately learned from their mistakes with the EJ's.

 

Its not as cramped as GDs friends 300zx but... still.

 

I have personally not found any model of car or truck that is as cramped or as badly engineered as the 300ZX. That car is definitely in the top 5 of cars I enjoy taking a ride in but would never, ever consider owning because I don't have the hands of a 12 year old girl. And I can say that from experience since I was the one that put the engine in it :-p.

 

GD

[zukiru]

heh they always included "girly hands" in the tools list for how-to articles on the ford ZX2 forum. not like it was really all that bad in the engine bay, but it was always funny. I think the forum was simply heavy handed, and ham fisted.

 

GD, do you have any EA82 bodies in your "stable"

 

I only have experience with the pointy nosed variety but I find that that chassis seems fairly stiff for the weight and the suspension is easy to work on

(I did my coil over sleeves with no spring compressors and never even removed the rear wheels, much better than the Escort Z which had to have most of the rear interior removed to even gain acces to the rear strut tops.)

 

I get it on the engine. there's so much in there I hope to never have to touch.

[GeneralDisorder]

No I don't have any EA82 chassis - I have in the past but I've got rid of them all.

 

I have two EA81 hatchbacks and they are my number one favorite body style. Both will end up with EJ's but right now have the EA81's and they run just great.

 

And I have a '91 Turbo Sport Sedan - which is the only first-gen Legacy body that I find appealing in the cosmetics department. I don't like the post-facelift front end nor the wagons in the looks department - but I can and have lived with their ugliness. The '91 SS is the best looking of the 90 to 94 Legacy lineup IMO.

 

Those are actually my only personal Soobs now. I have a truck for truck type duties, a car hauler trailer, and various other projects around here that I don't consider to be "mine" in the sense that I wouldn't own them on paper . Just the two hatch's, my SS, and the truck. Together they do all I need.

 

GD

[zukiru]

I like the hatch pretty good too. with a set of fender mirrors for flash!

the legacy I like best is the 2000-ish one.

 

still i think EA wagon had much more character than a 1g legacy wagon.

but the SS has to be the sedan I liked the looks of.

 

 

sorry to the original poster for the Off Topic!

[PadreScout]

I fear I may have recieved too much good advice, now I am torn. I have decided I will go and look at the GL anyway, but unless it is in very very good shape- I will pass and look for a Legacy of some sort. Are the early 90s the ones to have, or is anything nearer to 2000 worth a look?

 

I'm basically looking Wagon, 4WD for occasional wintertime or off-roading hijinks. I understand the legacies are all-time AWD, which would be nice, but frankly my area is very very flat, and it seldom snows or ices up (or rains) so really, the FWD of the GL would be fine except for when I want to go trucking around a nice dirt trail.

 

 

Anyhoo, hows that sound to you guys?

[92_rugby_subie]

All Subarus from 1996+ are AWD.

The EJ22 in the Legacy from 1990-1996 are all non-interference(no damage when timing belt goes, just like the EA82) and are bulletproof motors.

 

The EJ25 is prone to head gasket failure as well as it being an interference motor (damage done when timing belt goes)

[heartless]

The EJ22 in the Legacy from 1990-1996 are all non-interference (no damage when timing belt goes, just like the EA82) and are bulletproof motors.

 

IMHO these are the ones to look for in the AWD format - yes, they did still make some FWD models in those years, so be aware of that - a quick peek underneath to see if there is a driveshaft and rear pumpkin will confirm AWD.

 

Make sure there is no fuse on the FWD fuse holder - under the hood, near back of passenger strut tower - very small black box, just a little bigger than the typical blade style fuse used in these cars (it is supposed to light up "FWD" on the dash if there is one in there, but it is possible the bulb could be burnt out or missing, so dont rely on that alone)

 

a test drive in a parking lot doing slow tight circles will check for torque bind (go both directions to make sure) if it bucks, jumps, or otherwise resists rolling smoothly - walk away (unless you want to get an education on replacing the clutch pack...)

[okie bill]

PadreScout pardon the hijack, but this kind of applies. Guys, are the EJ22's all automatic seatbelt, or are the 95 and 96 manual?

 

Bill

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...how do the little 1.8 litres handle the bigger tires? ... I kind of want to go up in tire size but am afraid I will really guy the acceleration doing it. How is you guys experience with that?

 

 

... So there is some power loss in bigger tires, but it depends on how you want to do it. ...

 

About That, My BumbleBeast is Similar to Ned (92_rugby_Subie's car) 1985 Wagon EA82 with Weber 32/36 and no timing belts covers.

 

My BumbleBeast is Lifted (SJR 2") and runs on 25" (205/60 R 15") tires... (I'll put Bigger tires soon) ...now I need to Shift down to Second gear on long uphills on-road (my Little country, Honduras, has an extremely mountainous geography) when in the past my subie did it in third...

 

but something interesting is that the second gear downshift and high RPM's makes me feel my BumbleBeast even Faster and Stronger than it was on the 13" wheels.

 

However, the speedometer reads around 10% lower than the actual car's speed.

 

 

... it should not be ignored that the EA82 carbed engine bay is a NIGHTMARE prior to doing a Weber swap ...

 

Absolutely True!, I Hated all that "Spaghetti" vacuum hoses wrapping the engine, Lots of sensors, etc...

 

 

 

... still i think EA wagon had much more character than a 1g legacy wagon...

 

 

I Really agree with that.

 

While what others said about to find EJ stuff is easier and EA's becomes harder to get is true, the Looks and caracter of a well conserved and good lookin' old EA wagon (both EA81 and EA82 styles) is more "Special" somehow, maybe because those EA's came from the Era when Subaru was the Heavy-Metal kid, now recent models are more Pop-Star like... in my own humble opinion.

 

Kind Regards.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo
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