Wawa Gas?

[Guest jclay]

Hi all,

 

Any thoughts on the pros and cons to using Wawa gas? I understand that gas is mostly the same except for the additives added by a particular company. A new wawa opened up near my house and it's already put two other stations out of business but I was wondering if anyone had any feedback on their fuel?

 

Thanks!

[86subaru]

foresters do not like it, or aleast my 99 forester, , octine may not be 87

[porcupine73]

One thing I like about newer stations is you know there tanks and equipment are new. Really old stations for some reason makes me think more water might get in but probably not.

 

Wawa reminds me of this one time at lunch when a coworker with a strong accent was talking about how much he loves guava, but our boss kept thinking he was saying he loves Wawa and was like 'yah that is a pretty nice gas station.'

[Frank B]

I drive a gas tanker, and I've learned a lot about gas because of it.

porcupine73 has a very valid point about newer stations, new equipment makes a world of difference. Just give it a few days for the fuel to flush out any residue from the new equipment. All stations have to meet the same requirements and are all tested just as often wether it's all new or 10 years old. About 10 years ago, I think, The EPA came down hard on stations and a lot of mom and pop stores had to sell to the big boys because they couldn't afford new tanks. It used to be acceptable the have minor leaks letting gas out and ground water in. To fix it, a lot of companies just lined the tanks with fiberglass or similar stuff.

The pick up in the tank doesn't reach the bottom, it stops 7-12 inches from the bottom to keep water and sediment from being sucked up into your tank, if there's any in the bottom. Also, every pump has a filter in it, it's a large spin on filter, it looks like a big oil filter.

The stores that sell the most gas will have fresher fuel, and the big stations owned by big companies will have the money to maintain the tanks, pumps, and filters more often. The company I work for checks for water in the tanks every day at over 150 staions. At the first sign of clogged filters(slow pump), or complaints about the fuel, the tanks are tested and may be pumped out and the fuel replaced that same day.

Most of the staions I deliver to get a delivery every day, the tanks range from 4000 gallons to 20,000 gallons and it doen't last long. The mom and pop stores are given just enough to get by so the tank is mostly empty so the fuel doesn't go bad waiting for somebody to buy it. The big stores are mostly full to give a reserve in case it got busy.

Octane is different in different regions but generic staions, or unbranded, do not have a lower octane than anyone else if your state or region.

Branded as in Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc. will be that brand. Generic or unbranded like wawa, may be different every delivery, it may just depend on the price on that day. Most of the time when gas is ordered, the price is the most important thing. Remember, they buy it and re-sell it to you. If it's a branded station, you will get that brand, exxon, shell, etc. But a generic station, wawa, liberty, pure, etc could get a different product every time they get a delivery because they, and their customer, care more about price.

The only difference is the addatives between branded and unbranded(generic). It may be the kind of addative or the amount. It's all the same when it leaves the refinery, goes into the pipleine, put into the tanks at the terminals, but right before it goes into the truck the addatives and or ethonal are injected into it becoming the "product". That addative, or amount, makes all the difference.

It doesn't matter what time of day you fuel up either, it's a myth. The tanks at the terminals are millions of gallons, that mass hold it's temperature. It comes out of the underground pipeline, is held in enormous tanks, pumped into a tanker, where it's in for 15 minutes to a few hours depending on where the ataion is, then is put in underground tanks. The temp underground is constant, think goethermal heat pumps. That gas in the tank at the staition is the same temp at 6am as it is at 6pm. The gas in the pump and pump hose, which is maybe a gallon at most, is at ambient temp, if nobody used that pump in the past few hours. I've watched the ice and snow melt of the side of my tanker after I loaded it at the terminal due to the temp difference of the gas and watched condensation dripping off of it in summer because the cool gas inside.

 

Also, check to see what kind of fuel your buying, conventional(no ethonal), E10(10% ethonal), or RFG(reformulated with 10% ethonal). In and around big cities my have RFG, out in the country you could have any one of them. The price is different so whichever one is cheaper may be what goes to the station and it may be different every day and you'll get a wierd blend of gas, ethonal, and addatives every time you fuel up. The computer in your car makes adjustments but it will effect your mileage and performance.

 

I only fuel up at the big stations that are busy all day. And stick to one brand, one station. If you want quality, only buy branded gas, Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc at the same busy station every time. If your want a good price, then get it wherever it's cheapest. But like everything else we buy, you get what you pay for.

 

One more thing, if you get gas at a station that has one hose for all three grades of gas, the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the first gallon you buy is whatever the last guy bought. Those pumps have a blender in it. It blends the 87 and 93 to get 89. If you select 93, and the last guy bought 87, the gas in the hose from that blender to the nozzle is 87 and your paying the price for 93 for that amount of 87. If you want the higher octane gas, look at the pumps to see what the last customer bought, it will still show it until you lift the handle or swipe your card.

 

None of this info is a secret and we all have the right to know what we buy like everything else we buy. Ask the tanker driver or look for the company info on the truck. Call or email them with your questions. Ask what fuel goes to your station, if it's e10, conventional, or rfg. Ask how often they check the tanks, etc, etc. Don't ask the dude at the counter.....

Edited November 26, 2011 by Frank B
I can't spell

[3Pin]

Great info!!!

[Olnick]

. . . or RFG(reformulated with 10% ethonal). /quote]

 

Thanks, it's great to get an "insider's" input. One question, what does "reformulated" mean? What's the difference between that and 10% ethanol?

[subynut]

Thanks Frank B, answers quite a few questions I've had with gas stations.

[Frank B]

. . . or RFG(reformulated with 10% ethonal). /quote]

 

Thanks, it's great to get an "insider's" input. One question, what does "reformulated" mean? What's the difference between that and 10% ethanol?

 

Reformulated gas is what used to be called oxygenated gas. It made to burn cleaner to reduce smog. If your not near a major city you may not have it in your area.

[bheinen74]

Lol my town is exit 191 on I-80. We used to have fuel mart and it had an excellent trucker stop restaraunt, 20 years ago

it closed 9 years ago

 

 

 

We used to have citgo station directly on opposite side of road of fuel martand it had a eatery. It closed 3.5 years ago.

 

My town had a Sinclair Mini-mart, it cloese 2.6 year ago, in town all on exit 191.

 

I have to buy jerry cans, and I have to drive 8 miles to the nearest gas station to get gas.

 

 

The last time i filled up in my 94 Legacy Touring wagon, at the supposed amoco station at exit 197, 6 miles in year 2005, my legacy turbo knocked, bucked, and kicked. It ate a valve. I called Amoco of USA, got no feedback. Well about year 2009, that station also closed. Sucks to be in Iowa in a bad economy. And it kills turbo cars. I am down to 1 turbo car now, versus what i had then, about 4 turbos.

 

Iowa sucks and so does ethanol.

so, i forgot the question......

Edited November 27, 2011 by bheinen74

[bratman2]

Was your question anything like they might have slipped you 87 for premium! I fear the samething for my wife's Forester XT. I told my wife to fuel that bad boy up at the highest traffic station in the town she works at.

 

Many of the older under ground tanks have been replaced with above ground tanks in North Carolina. I buy my regular at the distributor here in Aurora because they have nonethanol regular. They also sell tires and I have been dealing with them for way over thrity years so they cut me some slack! I am sure it is a funny sight to see a lil Brat waiting in line with the fuel trucks to get gas!!! They also sell it to one station about twenty miles away which is the second place I buy fuel.

[porcupine73]

Nice info thanks Frank!

 

Don't ask the dude at the counter.....

haha yes a couple years ago I asked the lady in the booth whether this gasoline had ethanol in it. She said 'does this gasoline have ethanol in it?'. I said yes that's what I'm asking you. She looked at me kind of weird for a second and said 'oh honey I"m sorry I don't know.'

 

But here in NY we can get only 10% minimum ethanol in the gasoline.

[Frank B]

Thats another reason for getting fuel at big busy stations, the ethonal gas does not stay fresh as long as non ethonal gas. As expensive as gas is today, your going to have to use a good addative in your gas if it isn't going to be used in the first week that you buy it. Keep an eye on it. If the ethonal gas is cloudy, it's bad and there's no fixing it at that point. Above ground tanks, gas cans, and even while sitting in your cars gas tank will expose it to moisture. Either in the air or from condensation. Once a certain amount of water gets in it, the ethonal will start to rot and seperate from the gas. If you use it in your lawn mowers, take the carb apart in the spring after it's been sitting for a few months. You'll see a white goo. That's the ethonal rotting. It requires more maintenance, but it reduces emissions, and reduces the cost of the final product.

I never hear about people having problems with ethonal gas in the RFG gas areas we deliver to, only the e10 out in the country and small towns. I think it's because of the gas sitting in the tanks longer.

 

Here's a good site to find stations that sell ethonal free gas. The list isn't complete, half of the stores that I deliver to are not on there. I'll add them later.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

 

Out of the 12 terminals I load gas out of, only 1 still offers non-ethonal gas. Soon it will be gone. Here in VA there's rumors of all gas going to Reformulalated.

[Frank B]

So yeah, Wawa gas is fine, it's most likely a generic product. But to be sure ask the tanker driver. Ask the dude at the counter what time they usually deliver. A big station like that will get a delivery every day but it may not be there for more than 15-20 minutes so it's going to be hard to catch him, or her.

[johnceggleston]

on a side note:

 

i thought the main ingredient in ''dry gas'' the stuff you use to get water out of your gas tank, was alcohol.

 

if so, there should not be any chance of water in the underground tanks that have 10% ethanol.

 

 

right??

[bheinen74]

on a side note:

 

i thought the main ingredient in ''dry gas'' the stuff you use to get water out of your gas tank, was alcohol.

 

if so, there should not be any chance of water in the underground tanks that have 10% ethanol.

 

 

right??

 

This cannot be supported when rain puddles up over the tank openings say during flash floods or something, and enters the filling opening...

[porcupine73]

on a side note:

 

i thought the main ingredient in ''dry gas'' the stuff you use to get water out of your gas tank, was alcohol.

 

if so, there should not be any chance of water in the underground tanks that have 10% ethanol.

 

 

right??

 

It is, but it is not ethanol. The cheapest drygas is methanol, but it is very corrosive. Isopropyl alcohol is the 'premium' drygas. Ethanol does have an affinity for water but it does weird things as Frank noted. Water in the gasoline is even worse when the gasoline contains ethanol. The drygas does not get rid of the water; it simply helps lower the freezing point by being a mixture of alcohol and water (not unlike the mixture of water and glycol for coolant). I think chemically this is called a zeotrope but I forget for sure.

[987687]

While on the topic of ethanol and gas. Is there any ill effect of switching back to non-ethanol gas?

My GL obviously grew up on real gas, and switched a few years ago. Now I've moved somewhere I can readily get real gas. As I make short trips, or just ride my bike, I can have the same tank of gas for two weeks... would it hurt switching back, then maybe in the future going back to e10 again?

I just don't want to open a can of worms with my fuel system..

[porcupine73]

I would switch back to the real non-ethanol based gasoline if available. One possible downside is sometimes if the ethanol has separated from the gasoline in the tank, it may have a separate layer of ethanol with crud and water in it, so you might want to keep an eye on your fuel filter or maybe change it after having run a couple tanks of real gasoline through there.

 

If you are at all concerned about 'old gas', simply add some fuel stabilizer such as Sta-bil or Amsoil fuel stabilizer. Yes it will increase your effective cost per gallon but can result in savings of not having to clean the gummed up grud out from oxidized gasoline later.

[tkaste]

I have been using Wawa gas for a while now without a problem. 1995 Subie Legacy L wagon.

 

Several years ago they opened a super wawa in my neighborhood that caused the only other station, a Lukoil station, to close. I was friendly with the owner and asked him before he closed about his pricing being 0.10/gal higher than Wawa. He said the problem was Lukoil owned the tanks and sets the price but the gas he gets comes from conoco/phillips which is the same supplier as wawa, according to him.

 

The only difference is the additives put in a the last minute so the gas is all the same but the additives may be different.

[9098]

While on the topic of ethanol and gas. Is there any ill effect of switching back to non-ethanol gas?

My GL obviously grew up on real gas, and switched a few years ago. Now I've moved somewhere I can readily get real gas. As I make short trips, or just ride my bike, I can have the same tank of gas for two weeks... would it hurt switching back, then maybe in the future going back to e10 again?

I just don't want to open a can of worms with my fuel system..

 

I made the switch in my '05 Leg 2.5i and could not be happier. Mpg's went from 21-28 to 25-34.

 

It's worth repeating...check out this site for real gas.:

 

http://pure-gas.org/

[987687]

I made the switch in my '05 Leg 2.5i and could not be happier. Mpg's went from 21-28 to 25-34.

 

It's worth repeating...check out this site for real gas.:

 

http://pure-gas.org/

 

Ya, but my GL is about 17 years older... Anyway, I put real gas in it.

It hasn't seemed to make much difference at all... Since I'm spending a lot of money putting a new clutch and stuff in, I'll probably go back to regular gas because I'm poor...

[Frank B]

I have been using Wawa gas for a while now without a problem. 1995 Subie Legacy L wagon.

 

Several years ago they opened a super wawa in my neighborhood that caused the only other station, a Lukoil station, to close. I was friendly with the owner and asked him before he closed about his pricing being 0.10/gal higher than Wawa. He said the problem was Lukoil owned the tanks and sets the price but the gas he gets comes from conoco/phillips which is the same supplier as wawa, according to him.

 

The only difference is the additives put in a the last minute so the gas is all the same but the additives may be different.

 

That's why there are less and less mom & pop type gas stations around now, It costs too much to maintain the tanks, pumps, and to keep up with EPA standards. And, you really have to keep up on the tanks with the ethonal gas. Even if the owner/operator of the station owns all of it, if they have a brand name gas, then that brand sets the price and calls the shots. You can own a Mcdonalds, but do you think you can set your prices and specials, nope. Having a branded gas is like having a franchise, you have to sell their product by their rules. I don't understand why they can't give a little in these situations where a new, big station opens up acrossed the street.

All the gas IS the same, at least it's all made to the same standards before going into the pipeline anyway. As it's being loaded into the truck, the addatives and ethonal are injected. They do have different addatives for different brands, but usually the one terminal will offer one or two big brands, and a generic. They just don't have the extra tanks for all the different brand addatives. There are a few big terminals that do, but most of the ones I go to don't.

When we first started handling E10 gas, the terminals don't have the extra storage capacity so they used conventional gas to start with, and the etonal would raise the octane a bit. 87 at the pump would be 89, 89 and 93 would be right because they would "dilute" the mix with 87 to bring the octane back down. They now start with a lower octane base so it's right.

[porcupine73]

I made the switch in my '05 Leg 2.5i and could not be happier. Mpg's went from 21-28 to 25-34.

 

It's worth repeating...check out this site for real gas.:

 

http://pure-gas.org/

 

Hm that site is interesting. I even found a station that I pass every day in my area, and have bought this particular fuel at previously, but didn't realize it was ethanol free. I'm a little surprised to find them in NY, as I thought NY required ethanol in the fuel and outlawed MTBE, but many of the places I see listed for NY are marinas/boat dealers, so maybe that is how they do it - say it is for marine use.

[Legacy777]

When we first started handling E10 gas, the terminals don't have the extra storage capacity so they used conventional gas to start with, and the etonal would raise the octane a bit. 87 at the pump would be 89, 89 and 93 would be right because they would "dilute" the mix with 87 to bring the octane back down. They now start with a lower octane base so it's right.

 

Good info in these posts Frank!

 

I was over a refined products terminal in Alabama & Mississippi for a little while, and everything you're saying is dead on.

 

Regarding the ethanol raising the octane values, I think premium will still likely be higher since most of the refineries in certain areas are setup to put out premium at the specified octane spec. The 87 & 89 grades will likely be adjusted with the blending of sub-grade (85-86 octane) gasoline to hit the final octane value.

 

To expand on what Frank mentioned regarding varying additive amounts, they do vary, and can vary even among the branded gasoline. Typically the branded gas will get more additive for premium when compared to the unbranded gas. Here's some rough numbers for what we had in the terminals I was over.

 

Generic (unbranded) got the same additive amounts between all grades of gasoline.

Chevron got the same additive amounts between all grades of gasoline.

Exxon's premium got about 10% more additive than the regular or mid-grade gasoline.

Motiva's (Shell) premium got about 54% more additive than the regular or mid-grade gasoline!

 

These numbers are several years old, and may have changed now, but like I mentioned, the additive treat rates vary quite a bit, even among the branded gas.

[9098]

Hm that site is interesting. I even found a station that I pass every day in my area, and have bought this particular fuel at previously, but didn't realize it was ethanol free. I'm a little surprised to find them in NY, as I thought NY required ethanol in the fuel and outlawed MTBE, but many of the places I see listed for NY are marinas/boat dealers, so maybe that is how they do it - say it is for marine use.

 

Be sure to check the octane listed as non-ethanol in the site. It's a user updated site. If you know a place that sells real gas, add it!

 

http://pure-gas.org/