Forester Vibration Problem - Serious

[rmmagow]

2001 Forester 160,000 miles

I started to get a serious vibration upon acceleration from about 45 MPH and above. Felt a lot like an out of balance wheel. Driver's side front axle was blown, ripped inner boot. I replaced it but the vibration remains.

The car has had a "clank" noise when putting it into gear (automatic). This noise has been around for at least the last few years. Can't really say 100% if it's worse over the years.

My question, the clank makes me think maybe my driveshaft is going bad. I can't feel much play in it but..... Would an out of balance wheel make a much worse vibration under acceleration?

I put the car in gear with the brake on, hood open and pressed on the gas to see if there was excessive engine movement but it looks OK.

Opinions? Is the driveshaft replacement job ridiculously hard? Can I do it on 4 jackstands? I am an old geezer on top of all this but the car is my kids now and I'd like to get it back on the road pretty quickly and in a safe condition.

ANY and ALL Advice very appreciated.

[idosubaru]

axle has failed and needs replaced.

 

do *not* buy anything aftermarket. if you're tempted to buy one from a store just do a search here, on google, or any other subaru forum to see the inconsistency and unreliability of aftermarket axles. i've seen countless failures and that is a common issue, not anecdotal.

 

get a used Subaru axle and reboot it or MWE. a little extra effort and annoying - yes, but well worth it.

 

if you mean the cv axle - you only need one jackstand for that - jack that tire up and remove it. it's not terribly hard if yo'ure mechnically inclined and have tools. on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being hardest i'd call it a 4 only for some tricky parts - it's really only like a 1 or 2 with good tools. you'll need a 3/16" punch to remove the axle pin on the transmission side.

 

with good tools and having an axle ready to install on hand it can be done in 30 minutes - hour easily.

 

once the wheel is off you literally only have to remove one bolt and one nut to get the axle out. remove the axle nut and remove the top strut mount bolt. loosen the lower bolt, but don't remove it.

 

tips which are easy once you do it one time:

 

axle nut is a BEAST. have a 3 foot pipe or really long tools for leverage. it can be one of the most difficult nuts to remove on the vehicle. use a punch or chisel to knock out or cut the indentation mostly out of the way on the nut (you'll see when you look at it). doesn't have to be perfect, unthreading the nut will push anything in the way out of the way.

 

mark the *head* of the bolt you remove - it affects alignment as it's a cambered bolt. just knock it and the strut housing simultaneously with a chisel or mark it however you please to get it back in the same position. it's not rocket science or machine shop kind of tolerances so don't sweat it.

 

when reinstalling the replacement axle - it only installs one way - look at the splines on the trans and the splines in the axle and line them up - you'll notice the hole the pin goes through the splines are lined up differently on each of the two holes - make sure axle and trans sides line up. again - really simple, just need to know that and do it once.

Edited December 1, 2011 by grossgary

[rmmagow]

I did replace the axle that had the bad boot. No, I didn't use Subaru or rebuild the one I had. The passenger side front axle was replaced many years ago with a rebuilt unit. Although the boots are intact, could that axle be bad? I do not have any clicking noises when making sharp turns.

My original question was regarding the Drive Shaft that operated the rear wheels. I do hear a "clank" when putting the car into gear. Do these drive shafts fail at high miles? Can the car be converted to FWD by removing this driveshaft? How hard is it to replace this drive shaft.

Regarding the other front axle, how can I tell if it is OK or not?? I did grab onto the axle and try to move it around but it feels pretty solid?

Thanks

[jarl]

do *not* buy anything aftermarket. if you're tempted to buy one from a store just do a search here, on google, or any other subaru forum to see the inconsistency and unreliability of aftermarket axles. i've seen countless failures and that is a common issue, not anecdotal

 

Of course the problem can be somewhere else, but since the axle you put in fits into the "aftermarket" category, it sound's like it's the first thing you should check

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK - the way I interpret the OP, the clank and vibration were BOTH there before the new axle - maybe I'm wrong.

 

He may need to get it completely off the ground and have someone shift from fwd/rev and look/listen at the driveshaft and the transmission mounts, etc. Also, disconnecting the drive shaft and monitoring for the clank could tell you where the problem is - but it does sound like it's gonna be tricky to diagnose. BE CAREFUL!

[rmmagow]

Lucky Texan,

 

You are right, the clank and vibration existed before I replaced the axle. I only replaced the axle because the inner boot was torn and I figured that was a reasonable place to start. The vibration seems to be felt strongest through the floorboard on the front passenger side. Feels much like typical out of balance wheel except it is a LOT stronger vibration under acceleration. I downshifted the transmission while the car was vibrating and it didn't affect the frequency of the vibration. This sort of tells me the transmission isn't causing the vibration. The "clank" going into reverse or into drive leads me to suspect the main driveshaft. It is a CLANK, not a CLUNK. Metallic sounding. The rebuilt axle is fine. I've used them before.

Can a bad front axle cause this kind of vibration issue even though the boots look good and there no popping or clicking on sharp turns?

Can a wheel out of balance feel much worse under acceleration??

Edited December 1, 2011 by rmmagow
spelling

[1 Lucky Texan]

Lucky Texan,

 

You are right, the clank and vibration existed before I replaced the axle. I only replaced the axle because the inner boot was torn and I figured that was a reasonable place to start. The vibration seems to be felt strongest through the floorboard on the front passenger side. Feels much like typical out of balance wheel except it is a LOT stronger vibration under acceleration. I downshifted the transmission while the car was vibrating and it didn't affect the frequency of the vibration. This sort of tells me the transmission isn't causing the vibration. The "clank" going into reverse or into drive leads me to suspect the main driveshaft. It is a CLANK, not a CLUNK. Metallic sounding. The rebuilt axle is fine. I've used them before.

Can a bad front axle cause this kind of vibration issue even though the boots look good and there no popping or clicking on sharp turns?

Can a wheel out of balance feel much worse under acceleration??

 

 

I'm just some guy that's read a lot about soobs trying to help over the internet - I dunno what is 'possible' really. It does seem like the driveshaft needs to 'cleared' completely of blame before getting too crazy. I suppose you could swap left and right axles and see if the vibration moves to the driver's side.

 

Can you get someone to shift the car while stationary and some listen for the clank at each corner?

 

maybe someone could suggest a Subaru-experienced mechanic in your town that could check it out.

Edited December 1, 2011 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Caboobaroo]

Unfortunately the aftermarket axles are what making the vibrations. The differences in machined tolerances inside the joints make it bind. Original Manufactured Equipment or OEM, are built the best and as long as new boots are put on when they tear (part of vehicle maintanence is to check them every once and awhile), I've seen them last over 300k miles.

 

But if you can deal with the vibration, its still OK to drive.

Since you said the other side was replaced awhile ago, I suspect that one has gone bad.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Caboobaroo

[WoodsWagon]

I would check for play in the u-joint where the rear driveshaft goes into the back of the transmission. I had a friend that ignored a vibration and other noises until the u-joint wore through the yoke, then the driveshaft whipped around and wiped out the exhaust heat shield, O2 sensor, and punched the shifter assembly through the center console and kinked the shift cable while it was at it pulling it into neutral. This was in a 2000 forester.

 

You will probably have to take off the heat shield that goes between the exhaust and the body to get your hand in to check the joint, but I wouldn't ignore the possibility.

[rmmagow]

This seems much more likely. I took the car into the front yard and made tight circles while my wife stood outside the car and I had both windows open. No clicking or binding. Grabbing the drive axle, each side and looking for any kind of play, nothing, both are tight with no extra movement. I hope I am right, but I am thinking it might be nothing more than a fallen off wheel weight. I'm bringing it to a shop and have them scope it out. The main center drive axle will be looked at too. Failure there sounds pretty much terrible.

[rmmagow]

OK. The problem is the rear trailing Arm bushings, both sides front and rear. They showed me on the lisft where these have become detached. Now, they also quoted me a price of $500.00 to fix them which seems very excessive. They look easy to remove and replace to old bushings. I am having a lot of trouble finding the parts I need for a 2001. I saw some split design poly types on Ebay but not for my car. Am I missing something here? The job doesn't look very difficult. Can one buy new trailing arms with new bushings and just bolt in the new? It just doesn't look that hard to do. They also found a bad rear bearing (surprise!), $456.00 to fix which seems high too since I think I can get this done by Subaru for less. I'd greatly appreciate any pointers to suspension parts. Wheel balance was perfect. The shop I went to is NOT know as a rip-off but they do work mostly just tires etc so they may not have felt comfortable about the pricing for this job.

Thanks Much

[CNY_Dave]

Lucky Texan,

 

You are right, the clank and vibration existed before I replaced the axle. I only replaced the axle because the inner boot was torn and I figured that was a reasonable place to start. The vibration seems to be felt strongest through the floorboard on the front passenger side. Feels much like typical out of balance wheel except it is a LOT stronger vibration under acceleration. I downshifted the transmission while the car was vibrating and it didn't affect the frequency of the vibration. This sort of tells me the transmission isn't causing the vibration. The "clank" going into reverse or into drive leads me to suspect the main driveshaft. It is a CLANK, not a CLUNK. Metallic sounding. The rebuilt axle is fine. I've used them before.

 

 

Q1: Can a bad front axle cause this kind of vibration issue even though the boots look good and there no popping or clicking on sharp turns?

 

 

Q2: Can a wheel out of balance feel much worse under acceleration??

 

 

A1: Yes, absolutely. The inner joint changes very little when turning. My car has been doing the same thing, I got under the car without jacking it up, and I can rattle the inner joint. I think you have a bad inner on the other axle.

 

 

A2: No.

 

 

Edit- oops, didn't see the last post. But I'll leave my reply in case it helps someone else.

 

BTW, I'd reserve judgement the rear trailing arm bushings and/or wheel bearing would cause a wheel-out-of-balance type vibration- but it could happen.

 

 

Dave

Edited December 3, 2011 by CNY_Dave

[rmmagow]

Yeah, the rear trailing arm thing didn't give me heavy warm feelings. The kid did check the front axles and declared them fine. He drives a wrx sti and has owned suby's for a long time. That sort of gave me a better feel. I'm in conversation with subarupartsforyou to be sure I order what I need. Looks easy to do but I may still let the shop do it.

It is not bitter cold here yet, but any day now. I did notice the car didn't shake a lot when I initially drove it this morning, only began its shake after about 8 to 10 miles.

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK. The problem is the rear trailing Arm bushings, both sides front and rear. They showed me on the lisft where these have become detached. Now, they also quoted me a price of $500.00 to fix them which seems very excessive. They look easy to remove and replace to old bushings. I am having a lot of trouble finding the parts I need for a 2001. I saw some split design poly types on Ebay but not for my car. Am I missing something here? The job doesn't look very difficult. Can one buy new trailing arms with new bushings and just bolt in the new? It just doesn't look that hard to do. They also found a bad rear bearing (surprise!), $456.00 to fix which seems high too since I think I can get this done by Subaru for less. I'd greatly appreciate any pointers to suspension parts. Wheel balance was perfect. The shop I went to is NOT know as a rip-off but they do work mostly just tires etc so they may not have felt comfortable about the pricing for this job.

Thanks Much

 

 

Well, I'm not 'there' of course, but, I think you should make an effort to get a second opinion. Or, at least, have the bearing replaced first, then see how the car behaves.

[Caboobaroo]

Its a halfshaft issue, I will even put $10 on it. You will probably say again they are fine but I see this all the time. Aftermarket axles are junk. Find some OEM axles from a yard and reboot them if the joints are still good and swap them in.

[Fairtax4me]

This is probably due to a worn inner axle cup. That could account for the clink when going into gear as well.

 

The trailing arm bushings have to be pressed in. Replacing them on your own will be difficult without a press. But you can probably rent a ball joint service C-frame press kit to press the old bushings out and the new ones in.

[rmmagow]

Well, I'm not 'there' of course, but, I think you should make an effort to get a second opinion. Or, at least, have the bearing replaced first, then see how the car behaves.

 

I am getting the WB replaced at Suby. It is making a noise, whirring a bit, but not any kind of crunching type noise. With the car on the ground, the rear trailing arms really have a LOT of slop, both ends on both sides are pretty bad. I can get new trailing arms with the front bush for 72, rear bush, another 24. Yeah, the axles, but really they just aren't showing any kind of play and zero noise with the wheel turned totally tight.

This morning when first driving the car (cold) it was OK for about 8 miles then it started shaking. I'm thinking the bushings were cold and not slopping around as much but after loosening up I'd feel the car acting up. I really don't want to be yanking out good axles if I can avoid it. Regardless, the rear will need to be fixed anyway so if after that I still have an issue I'll put in a couple of new Suby axles. Junk yards can't tell if the axles are suby or not.

[rmmagow]

Its a halfshaft issue, I will even put $10 on it. You will probably say again they are fine but I see this all the time. Aftermarket axles are junk. Find some OEM axles from a yard and reboot them if the joints are still good and swap them in.

 

I owe you 10 bucks bud. I took the car to Subaru. The passenger side ball joint stud was broken off, this was due to a shop screwing up a simple tire rotation and causing a wheel to come off. This in turn apparently damaged the axle on that side too. Way too much slop at the inboard joint. I'm going to start another thread regarding how to fix this. The Subaru dealer want $700 to replace the BJ and axle. Yeah, there's some nasty labor involved but even if the ball joint is so screwed up that it can't be removed from the LCA, a new Suby LCA is only $100, BJ is $37. Fixing it yourself ....priceless :-)

Since that BJ was replaced only a couple of years ago I think it will come out of the hub OK. I had coated it with anti-sieze when I put it in. I will have Subaru replace the rear wheel bearing, that's just to difficult to do correctly.

Thanks for the help, thanks for beating me to death about the axles. Lesson learned.

[J A Blazer]

I don't understand how the car could even be driven if the ball joint stud was broken.

[CNY_Dave]

I think what he was saying was in the past the ball joint broke and the wheel (whole knuckle?) promptly splayed out and was repaired, and now x months later the damage to the joint is becoming evident.

[1 Lucky Texan]

so, did a bad axle break the ball joint? Or, the other way?

[jarl]

If I understood it correctly, a bad mechanic caused the ball joint to break, and that eventually led to the demise of the axle

 

Now, about those $10...

[rmmagow]

I don't understand how the car could even be driven if the ball joint stud was broken.

 

Kind of half broken. The "castle" part of the nut and part of the stud were broken off. The BJ is now only held by the remains of the castle nut. Car is off the road 'till fixed.

[Fairtax4me]

The bottom part of the ball joint stud doesn't seem like something that would break. But I guess if the wheel fell off it could have been ground to a pulp by the ensuing meeting of the road and control arm.

We need pics!

[rmmagow]

The bottom part of the ball joint stud doesn't seem like something that would break. But I guess if the wheel fell off it could have been ground to a pulp by the ensuing meeting of the road and control arm.

We need pics!

 

When the wheel came off my kid was just pulling away from a stop light, the wheel went under the car. I would guess the wheel is what wrecked the BJ stud. The place that caused this issue did replace the wheel, brake rotor, caliper, wheel studs on the other three corners. I don't think the LCA actually hit the ground. My plan is to fix this myself. I hope there enough left of the BJ nut that I can get a socket on it, get the BJ out of the hub, replace BJ and axle and maybe be OK. I will be ordering an LCA just-in-case but it looks good. Worst case I might have to cold-chisel the BJ out of the arm but I'm hoping it'll come out. Strange that the car has basically been OK for a few months after this fiasco. Although I am not inclined to sue these folks I will have to super bad-mouth them via the Internet and word of mouth. Not only did the shop ruin my car, their sister shop gave me this bogus rear trailing arm diagnosis. Bad outfit to do business with. Almost makes Jiffy Lube look competant :-)