kabarakh Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hello all, I have an EA82 SPFI that has just (as of this morning) been reassembled after a complete reseal and headgasket job. (and yes I did remember the two cam o-rings) When disassembling the engine I did not realize how important the lifter location could be, and when initially removing my Drivers side head they fell out. I attempted to get them in the same order, but me being me, managed to drop them a second time. I set them aside in the order that I believed to be correct, and proceeded with the headgasket repair. Today I reassembled the engine and fired it up; lo and behold there is a horrible knocking sound from the Drivers side cam case. I believe that this is because I have misplaced the lifters, as the noise was not present before I disassembled the engine. The noise is not present on the passengers side, which I took off after the Drivers side and was quite a bit more careful with the removal of the lifters I have replaced the seals in the oil pump, as I had a minor TOD before the seal job, but I checked with a stethoscope and the noise is definitley originating in the Cam Case. My questions: Is there anyway for me to determine the correct placement for my lifters on my head other then trial and error? Would I be better off replacing the lifters completely? Am I completely looking in the wrong direction? I can't think of what else the noise could be, I have scoured the forums but nothing I've found really tells me for sure so far. It should be worth noting at this point that the only experience I've had working on cars has been this job, I've owned Subaru's all my life but only now have ever dove into them. I did all the seal jobs and HG changes and even pulling the engine with the help of the fine people on this site. I just want to make sure I'm not going to break my subaru with my ignorance:confused:. Appreciate any help and advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 nice work cranking out your first engine pull and head job! (and yes I did remember the two cam o-rings)did you replace with proper metal reinforced orings or just regular orings? while nice and a worthy goal, HLA location isn't a big deal, and would be more on the OCD perfectionistic continuum. i've mixed and matched, replaced bad ones with used ones, swapped arms, HLA's, etc and never had an issue, they'll pump up and do what they're supposed to do, they're not all that technical if everything is working properly. how long has it been running? these things can be thunderously noisy for quite some time when the heads have been off while the HLA's are pumping up and seating fully. might just have an offseated rocker arm. pull a valve cover and it might be really obvious with a misseated/fallen rocker arm, collapsed HLA, etc. if you're still scratching your head then give us: how many miles? how long did it sit non-operational? how long was it driven with bad headgaskets? the only case of seized lifters i've seen was passengers side on an ER27 (same exact HLA's and rocker arms as the EA82) that was driven a long time on failed headgaskets. had two HLA's that would not collapse even in a vice, i through them in the trash. they were very noisy. i guess i'm not certain but i'm assuming the seizing had something to do with the heat and/or coolant/water mixing with oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Thank you and yes, I followed the advice on here and got OEM rings from my local subaru dealership As to how long it has been running, only about half an hour, I basically brought it up to operating temperature to check for leaks and then shut it off because the noise from the cam tower was so loud i was afraid I'd done something wrong. Figured better safe then sorry, I was planning on at least taking off the valve cover tomorrow and looking around, it shouldn't be too hard for me (at least now that I know what I'm doing) to jack the engine up a few inches to make it a little easier to get where I'm going. I was mainly worried because they did fall out and the noise only came from the drivers side, the side where they fell out. As to how many miles were on it I honestly do not know. The odometer reads at 359,000 miles but I had been pretty sure based on random observations and research here that it had been rebuilt in the past. (That guess was confirmed when I found a broken rocker arm in the bottom of my oil pan... somehow... still had all mine attached, there was just an extra snapped one in the pan.) Between work and waiting for parts (to give me time to do the research here) it has been sitting for about three weeks. It had been driven with bad headgaskets for an undetermined amount of time, Not really sure. It didn't exhibit any symptoms of a blown headgasket (no overheating, although it ran warm, no bubbles in the radiator, no white smoke, etc.) It did however have some killer milkshake in the bottom of the oil pan (no metal shavings that I could find though) Did a compression test and everything was within the same vicinity, don't remember exactly what the readings where but I do believe they were fairly low. Have yet to repeat the test, like I say it was an initial startup and the noise really worried me. Appreciate the input! EDIT: The reason for the engine pull was to replace the clutch, the reseal and HG's were just because the engine was out and I do not know how many miles are honestly on the thing. Edited December 11, 2011 by kabarakh Additional Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I don't really have much to put into this thread, but here's some encouragement, it's real cool you're ripping into your own engine, just take your time and pay attention to every detail, and you should be top notch. As far as the tick, I have read (and I'm sure you have too) that some people who do a rebuild have to run their engines for a little while, maybe even rev it up a bit, to get everything to seat and/or for those lifters to do their little finicky dance before they stop yelling at you. Good luck, I hope it gets sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 359,000 miles and broken rocker arms in the oil pan - wow this thing has seen it all, i'd say lots of things are possible then. since it ran fine before the job i would think one of the rocker arms fell off or is not seated properly. a bad HLA is possible. the valve covers are actually really easy to remove without any engine lifting, etc. a 10mm ratcheting wrench makes it a much simpler job actually. the drivers side is the hardest one though. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Should be getting mine going tomorrow after about 6 months . I'll let you know what it sounds like. I have also read that the engine will sound like ************ for the first 20 or so miles after a reseal, so don't be too discouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Oil pressure at idle is 20 psi or less. That may not be enough to pump up a sticky HLA. A mile or two drive down the road would get oil pressure up, and may get it to stop clacking. A mis-seated rocker would cause some noise. If a rocker has fell out of it's home; on the intake valve, you would have a definet miss, (no charge getting into cylinder) on the exhaust valve, it would backfire thru the intake, ( no place for spent charge to go until intake valve opens). If you do pull the cam cover for a look; pull up the disty cap, turn engine over by hand until rotor points to #2 plug tower. That will put you with both valves closed. Check for excessive movement of the rockers. Do the same for #4 cylinder. I can't say how much, if any, movement of the rockers is ok. But do know a lot of movement is not good, and would point to that HLA being the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Take it for a spirited drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Well I'm headed back down to the shop to check it out, fortunately the shops on a mile long gravel road so I'll start out with the 'spirited drive' and see if i can't pump them bad boys up I'll let you all know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Well, fired it up this morning and the noise had diminished considerably Took it for a 3 mile drive up and down the road, and things seem to be getting better. There is a strange rattling noise when I let off the accelerator, but not sure if it's an issue or not. Thank you all for the help! Now I just have to figure out what I miswired when I did the heater core, I don't have my wipers, headlights, or my power windows Think it's just a big plug somewhere that I didn't push in all the way, I was really careful about labeling both sides of everything I disconnected to ensure proper reconnection. Getting closer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Should be getting mine going tomorrow after about 6 months . I'll let you know what it sounds like. I have also read that the engine will sound like ************ for the first 20 or so miles after a reseal, so don't be too discouraged. How did it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I was sure my daughters was self destructing when we first sarted it up after doing the same thing. What a racket. It sounds like a sewing machine now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 ran into a snag with the metal tube that goes from the intake manifold to the cam carrier case...forgot to install it...ya...trying to figure out how to get it in now... Should have it going today with fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarurx yo Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 i have the same issue every time i do headgaskets the lash adjusters make alot of noise i dont put them back in the same place usually but if you soak them in oil before you put them back in then it may not knock, i also tried oil additive stuff thats really thick and it goes away after about 30min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Yup, loud lifter ticking, but seems to go away when it warms up. Now if I can just get the darn thing timed right. The disty is giving me tons of trouble and I've never messed with one before, so it is proving to be difficult. Other than that, I spilled some coolant through the intake manifold gaskets when I had to loosen them to install that metal hose from the intake to the head on the passenger side, so it looked like this: . Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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