How bad is this rust and damage?

[danbennett2u]

no mention of the mileage but yes that is about what I have seen cosmetically for a $1600 asking price Legacy. I still say if the underbody on the one ttt posted is ok then the seller is asking for a fair price. I am in Colorado and have visible body rust, it just looks worse on a white car I think lol.

[MilesFox]

if you paid any more than 800 bucks for this car, it is paying for a subaru, since you can get a buick lesabre for the same price, but it's not as fantastic.

 

a good used car is worth the money if it is in good shape. Being familiar withthese cars is the best determinatin of what you would want to pay for one.

 

i got mine for 6oo, but i initially offered 1200 for it before the frontal damage. I could easily sell it for better than 1200, being in similar shape cosmetically, but it has lower miles and awd, and GT package.

[danbennett2u]

You pay more for AWD and subaru reliability/longevity. Cant compare subaru selling prices to other makes easily. Maybe toyotas with alltrac would be the closest comparison.

 

Also considering the car still has original hubcaps it may have been better taken care of than what people are hinting at, especially if the only issue when driving it was a warped brake rotor.

[uniberp]

How the heck do you guys get these deals? $2500 in Denver will buy you a ok-ish condition mid 90's model with 150k+ miles, and subies are pretty common in Denver. Is the demand that low that people will sell them for that cheap in some areas?

 

Cars out east are more numerous, for one, and they get driven down to stumps there for two. :cool:

[john40iowa]

Where you live and the time of year are factor in pricing for sure; I was bored this weekend and spent about two to three hours doing on-line search for this exact same year and AWD drive model. I found two- 0ne in Chicago and the other in North Carolina. Both were in substantially better condition without as much rust and about the same miles. One was asking $2300 and the other about 1900. The first unit looked like Grandpa's car and I wanted to buy myself it if it wasn't so far from me. Go Subaru!

[jdemaris]

How the heck do you guys get these deals? $2500 in Denver will buy you a ok-ish condition mid 90's model with 150k+ miles, and subies are pretty common in Denver. Is the demand that low that people will sell them for that cheap in some areas?

 

Here in central New York there's a big demand for non-rusty Subarus. But when they start to rust, they literally fall apart. So once you see rust through on top, you can assume there twice as bad underneath. That's why they sell relatively cheap. I've got over a dozen good-running AWD and 4WD wagons parked up in field. All taken off the road because the rear suspensions rusted and broke off.

 

From what I've heard from my two sons, everything is expensive in the Denver CO area. One kid lives in West Minster and the other in Longmont.

[jdemaris]

You pay more for AWD and subaru reliability/longevity. Cant compare subaru selling prices to other makes easily. Maybe toyotas with alltrac would be the closest comparison.

 

Also considering the car still has original hubcaps it may have been better taken care of than what people are hinting at, especially if the only issue when driving it was a warped brake rotor.

 

I've been driving Subarus since the late 70s. I never felt they were more reliable then anything else. Less so then other Asian cars. What I really lilked about them was the part-time 4WD system with hi-low range in a car that could get near 30 MPG in summer driving. That car doesn't exist anymore. I had many Datsuns, Hondas and Toyotas that were more trouble free.

 

I don't think Subaru sells any utilitarian cars in the USA anymore. The 4WD Loyales and Justys were probably the last.

 

One thing that newer Subarus still have is great stopping traction on ice and frozen snow. Must have to do with the usual weight distribution (just a guess). I can drive my Loyale or Impreza down my steep icy mountain road on summer tires and hold the road better then my Chevy 4WD Blazer with studded snow tires on it. When our road is frozen in during mid-winter, I won't dare try to come down the hill with anything except a Subaru - or my Chevy plow truck when it has chains on it.

 

But reliability? I haven't noticed anything spectacular. Subaru seems to have consistent quality control since the same parts seem to fail at the same miles on most of my cars. Wheel bearings, CV joints, fuel pumps (when they were mounted outside the tank), various miscellaneous electrical issues (especially heater blower resistors), etc.

 

In my experience, the Subaru was at it's zenith of utility with the Loyale 4WD wagon with hi-low range and air suspension. Subaru seemed to have the most reliable car (of its own make) mid 90s with the 2.2 engines. The rest? I constantly meet new Subaru owners needing wheel bearings, head gaskets, rusted fuel lines, fuel tanks, CV joints, brake problems, etc once they get past 120-150K. I also hear many complaints about fuel mileage. My 1998 Kia Sportage 2 liter 4WD has 220K miles on it and has hardly needed anything. Not as nice to drive as a Subaru but certainly utilitarian and reliable.

 

My wife's parents are on their 2nd Ford Escape and it seems to be just as reliable and if anything, more trouble free then Subarus of the same ilk. What I don't know is if it gets as good traction coming down steep icy roads. I bet it doesn't. But - for a 4 door SUV with a 2.5 engine that gets 30 MPG highway with five people inside it's pretty good.

 

My observations are as an owner and as a mechanic. But, I live in a high road-salt area. People with Subarus in other areas might have totally different reports.

[danbennett2u]

"Subaru seemed to have the most reliable car (of its own make) mid 90s with the 2.2 engines."

Thats exactly what we are talking about in this case.

 

Even so, reliability must mean something different to you than me. I dont consider brake wear, cv joints, wheel bearings etc. reliability issues. They wont leave you stranded. I consider a car to be reliable if you can go out, start it, drive it to work over and over and over and get plenty of notice when things start to need maintenance. I had PLENTY of american vehicles (and some asian ones) that have left me on the side of the road with no warning. My 92 Legacy I have owned from 230k to present with 341k miles has never left me stranded with the exception of a cracked radiator 1k miles ago. This dependability at high mileage isnt uncommon with Subarus, and not many other makes can claim to do that.

 

That all said, I would probably tend to avoid most any subaru newer than a 97 model year, but they have a REPUTATION for reliability and that is what people will pay a premium for.

 

EDIT**** Now that I think about it I did have a fuel pump failure too, but I can excuse that as well since it was at 339k miles. This has been both my most reliable and most trouble free car i have owned, along with the one having the most mileage. My miata may have had less problems but I didnt own it nearly as long and I bought that with 48k miles on it.

Edited December 22, 2011 by danbennett2u

[ttt]

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

It seemed in more general discussion with the owner that he would let the car for roughly $1500, after I initially seemed concerned about the rust. I don't take that to mean anything bad, except that I know through our mutual friends that he's really, really busy and is probably motivated to sell.

The main concern I'm reading is that underbody might be rusted. If I can find a car person to go look at it with me and we find that there is not significant rust, I'm thinking this price would be reasonable for me.

[danbennett2u]

I would check the control arms, fuel filler tube (behind some plastic) and strut towers and as jdemaris suggested the rear crossmember area. Probably some other areas some people in rust prone states can point out.

[ttt]

I would check the control arms, fuel filler tube (behind some plastic) and strut towers and as jdemaris suggested the rear crossmember area. Probably some other areas some people in rust prone states can point out.

 

Yeah, thanks. I'm scrounging for people I know with experience working on cars.

[jdemaris]

 

Even so, reliability must mean something different to you than me. I dont consider brake wear, cv joints, wheel bearings etc. reliability issues. They wont leave you stranded

 

I've probably been stranded with a dead car maybe 3-4 times in the past 30 years. Subaru every time. I'm not counting the times I was 100 miles from home and something went bad but I was still able to drive - or fix on-site.

 

No I have never considered brake wear an issue. I call sticking calipers an issue along with seized bleeder screws. Same with poor quality brake lines.

 

With CV joints? MY Loyales didn't get half the miles many of my other cars did - mainly due to the sharp angle in front that makes boots short-lived.

 

With wheel bearings? Became an issue late 90s when Subaru got threatened with a law-suit from many failures at low miles. My neighbor had his 97 go bad at 60K. That's when Subaru tried a new cheaper ball bearing instead of a cup-and-cone arrangement.

 

The things that left me dead-on-the-road were external fuel pump failures on Loyales and Justys at low miles (one only had 60K). That is due to rust and poor corrosion protection on those external pumps. That is poor engineering.

 

Brake lines - poor quality. The steel Subaru has used would be illegal in Europe where cunnifer, monel, or equivalent is mandated.

 

Exhaust systems - I'm talking OEM. Loyales and Justys were poor quality. To the other extreme, mu 95 Impreza still has the original and it seems to be a good quality stainless steel. My 2002 Impreza is not.

 

Gear shifts? I had many standard transmissions go bad in Subaru Loyales. Often 5th would get noisy at 120K and with two - the gear shift lever broke off due to a bad rubber isolator mount.

 

4WD? The older three speed automatic trans setups were awful. Used a clutch pack in the rear of the trans to drive the rear wheels - if you gave enough throttle. The went to low pressure at low throttle and often were burned out before 100K miles. Sometime earlier since it was too easy to hit the 4WD button on the gear shift and not see the indicator light on the dash when it was sunny out. Drive for a few hours like that on pavement and the clutches burn out. I had to fix many for customers.

 

3 speed auto trans- many got stuck governors at low miles. Easy fix if you know what to do. Some people did not and paid a fortune for a rebuilt trans they did not need.

 

Electrical? Japanese cars are usually known for great electrical systems. My Loyales have had too many problems to list. Probably all due to rust. Recently, in the middle of the night, our 1992 Loyale starting making a racket. The electric door locks started locking and unlocking - all by itself. I ran out and unhooked the battery. Haven't tried to fix it yet.

 

Rust? Again, Loyales are the worst for any car I've ever owned - except maybe a Chevy (Isuzu) LUV. I'll note though that my 1995 Impreza has been amazingly good. My 2002 has NOT. The 2002 is my cleanest car that looks rust free on top. Oil pan rusted through already. Funny since none of my older Loyales ever did that. Now the 2002 has been recalled for rust problems in the front control arms.

 

1.8 engines in Loyales -every one I've ever owned was an oil burner by 100K. No visible smoke, just constantly adding oil. My 1995 2.2 Impreza does not use a drop. It's an amazing engine.

 

Note that my Subarus are winter cars. I rarely use them in the summer so many issues are corrosion related. My 1995 2.2 AWD Impreza has been the best Subaru I've even owned. Mechanically and with rust resistance. Also nice that it's the last year I can get a cheap MV inspection in NY. 1996 and up cost twice as much. I'm searching for a clean 1995 right now - but I want rust free with less then 150K. Not easy to find.

[Cyfun]

Even $1500 seems a bit steep to me. I'd say $1000 tops.

 

Here in Montana Subarus are very popular, and there are a ton of early-90s Legacies around. Most with some minor dings and dents, maybe hail damage, but rarely rust cause they don't salt the roads much here. You can find ones that are a bit beat up but in good mechanical condition for $500-1500. Cars without any body damage, especially Outbacks, tend to go for $2500-4000.

 

Having said that, I think even $1500 is a steep price on that because as other folks have said, it sounds like this wasn't very well maintained. Probably gonna need a timing belt, brake rotors, wheelbearings and possibly axles soon. I would rather have a more beat-up car that's in better mechanical condition. If I were you, see if he will take $1000, otherwise keep looking. Might not hurt to pay a mechanic $50-80 to have them do an inspection on it.