fishy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Howdy again, Subaru people. I've been poking around under my project 98 Impreza wagon soaking things with penetrating oil and trying to figure out how to get the rotten crossmember out with my limited tools. Last weekend I put my impact gun on one of the bolts and blasted away for a while but it didn't budge. I'm including a very poorly doodled picture to help with my question. The question is: would it be possible (or stupid) to drill a small hole (red dots) in the body just above the hidden nut so I can soak the crap out of it with oils? I don't have a real man's torch to heat things up cherry red before I try them so I'm looking for any bit of advantage I can gain. Any help or tricks is greatly welcome. Bonus questions: I surfed around opposedforces for a while looking for cross-compatible crossmembers and basically a couple older legacy parts will fit but everything from 94 to about 2000 looks the same in the blown up diagrams except for small differences in exhaust hanger type things. Is that true? Are the 90's legacy crossmembers the same width and such? Thanks again for help guys and gals. Edited December 20, 2011 by fishy add picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 rusty fasteners like this just plain suck. seems they would have to be the same since rear diffs, axles, and hubs all interchange between legacy, impreza, forester, OBW. i'm sure you're using a 6 point socket and not a 12? gaining access sounds like an option if you think you can find a good spot to get at them. are they accessible through the access panel in the trunk for the fuel pump? maybe you could soak them down from in there? someone just posted in another thread like yesterday (a brake thread) about some other rust product, they covered a seized pin with a soaked cloth for a couple days and it came out....that might be worth a shot? i would try to get a socket with long freaking pipe on it if they're not stripping yet. not sure why but a long pipe will get some insane axle nuts off that my 960 ft/lb 3/4" impact can't. if sockets don't work could you drill the bolts out? i just had to drill one out (not a crossmember bolt though) and it wasn't as bad as i thought, 10 minutes or so and it finally backed out. oddly enough my friend put the drill in reverse even with a normal cut drill bit and somehow it still cut and eventually pulled the bolt out. need a high quality drill bit, keep it cool and lubricated and it can drill through a bolt head rather quickly. you'd want to use left handed drill bits - the heating and left handed motion will eventually turn them out. usually start with like one smaller bit then bump up to larger bit then you may have to end up with a bit the size of the shank if it's really bad. but high quality and left handed aren't typically available easily. even a propane torch can help sometimes, far from ideal but it can help. though with these i would think it's limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 If you don't have a serious impact wrench it probably won't budge those even if they weren't rusty. Did you try a breaker bar? Those are 12mm bolts so they won't break unless you really lay into them or they're just rusted to nothing inside. It can also help to smack them with a large hammer a few times. The crossmember should be the same on the Legacy. Opposed forces lists differt part numbers, but the differences should be minor. But you can get on from basically any impreza from 93 to 99. http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/20151FA101/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 those parts should be the same from 1990-1999, the 2000 and up(legacy) has a different rear subframe, but should be the same with impreza a few years after. I would attempt this with a long 1/2" dr. extension and a breaker bar. sometimes the impact wont break the torque where a breaker bar will, and then use the umpact to get it the rest of the way. I do like your idea of making holes to shoot some PB in there. depending on the size of your bit, you should be able to find a plastic or rubber plug for your holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red92 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I don't have a real man's torch to heat things up cherry red before I try them so I'm looking for any bit of advantage I can gain. If you're really desperate for every last bit, I've had really good luck with my 39" 3/4" breaker bar. It's hugely overkill for most things, but I've never needed a cheater pipe since I bought it. For stuck fasteners, it is always nice to just have one tool that you know you can put a lot of force on, rather than cheaters or other extensions which add slop and give you one more way to slip and hurt yourself. Autozone has 'em for $50 delivered to the store: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Great-Neck-3-4-in-drive-39-in-breaker-bar?itemIdentifier=989265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Good feedback, guys. Thanks! I believe I read about those captured nuts being completely inaccessible from inside the car (or anywhere else) but I'll have another look around. I haven't tried a breaker bar yet, no. I'm using 6point impact sockets and thus far the bolt head is NOT stripped. I think I will get a half-inch drive breaker bar and put my lardy stature to work for the cause. I'm not sure about drilling all of those bad boys out, I don't think that would end well... but I might change my tune after I strip the heads off with a breaker bar I think I will try drilling the oil-access holes. I have a mig welder and can squirt a little metal back into them to close them up afterwards if I can't find a plug or screw to fit the bill. I'll be sure to report back on any progress when I can make some. I feel a flu coming on right now just in time for the holiday season so between illness and family time I suspect I won't get a chance for a while Thank you, everyone for the ideas again, I really appreciate having you here to bounce my thoughts off of and ask questions to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have a good PNW crossmember if you need one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 just use a 1/2" drive breaker bar and a cheater pipe. They will come loose with those tools, and your muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I'm including a very poorly doodled picture to help with my question. . Hey, I love your "doodled picture" and the red dots. Don't think I've ever seen a clearer depiction of the problem being discussed. Good going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Well I've got some progress to report! I drilled my goofy little holes and sprayed the bejeezuz out of them with a home-brewed penetrant. I applied a breaker bar and moved both left side bolts! I worked them back and forth a bit and then backed them out a little and hosed them with penetrant again so they can soak overnight. Then I drilled and sprayed the other side. I'll try those tomorrow. Now that I feel like I can get the crossmember out I'll get back underneath and start working on getting the other stuff detached and out of the way as best I can before finally dropping the big chunk out of it. Hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal_look_zero Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Congrats. I don't envy you guys with your rusty stuff. I worked on a 1940s GMC truck with less rust than that... that had been sitting out in a field for 30 some odd years! My experience with anything moderately rusted has been to soak the crap out of it with PB/WD40/similar and ever so gently go after it with a long ratchet or breaker bar. You can apply more torque than an impact (with a long enough bar) and taper into it a lot more smoothly. Sounds like what you did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 GREAT SUCCESS! Ladies and gentlemen I have finally coaxed the subframe out from under my Impreza! First of all, thanks to everyone here for keeping me motivated and informed. Now onto the gory pictures: Observe the Stage II Iron Oxide Weight Reduction kit that was in play. I'm sort of surprised it still drove fine. The entire area circled in red is pretty seedy. And in the second picture you can see that I didn't remove the diff, axles, exhaust, or much else for that matter. just all the bolts that went through the subframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Look on the bright side! If it was a Toyota the whole frame would look like Swiss cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 if you can axses directly above the head of bolt inside the car and use a small hole saw make a hole above the bolt and come down from above with a good socket to hold the top side or cut them off and put a new bolt with a nut the welded nuts shoudent be to hard to break loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Is it possible to lower the rear crossmember a couple of inches while leaving the diff and driveshaft still in place? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 if you can axses directly above the head of bolt inside the car and use a small hole saw make a hole above the bolt and come down from above with a good socket to hold the top side or cut them off and put a new bolt with a nut the welded nuts shoudent be to hard to break loose Thankfully my trick of drilling holes for penetrating juice worked and I didn't have to get to the captured nuts inside the body this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Is it possible to lower the rear crossmember a couple of inches while leaving the diff and driveshaft still in place? Thanks Short answer: Sort of. I lowered the crossmember (which had the diff and shafts still attached to it) by about 2" before having anything except the 4 main subframe bolts undone. The diff and shafts move along with it because the subframe holds the back end of the diff up. I believe this is how early Outbacks were lifted. They had a spacer between the body and subframe(and between the body and other drivetrain parts further forward as well). Longer answer: Not really... Hopefully someone more experienced in the matter can chime in. This is my first structural work on a car so I'm new. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Subframe Success! I've got the crossmember repaired and re-installed! For anyone who's interested here's a hastily shot and fairly dark video of how I got the crossmember installed without taking the diff out of the way: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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