EGR messing with me.

[TeamCF]

So I searched and found various egr related stuff but not this.

To start it's a 1983 EA81. De-smogged (except for cat, egr, and pcv) and has always passed DEQ that way (I tore it all out right from the get go years ago).

 

So I did a Weber swap. And picked up a egr valve from the JY off an EA82 that looked almost new. (nice and clean, holds vacuum) Got a new gasket for that as well. (I wanted to get rid of the extra hose I just had plugged and my old EGR was frozen up)

 

It runs great..... if I keep the egr vacuum hose disconnected. (I currently have the screw that plugs the Weber's egr port in and the hose on just to look "official")

As soon as I let the egr open even the tiniest bit using my vacuum pump, it runs like crap through the entire rpm range, idle to redline.

I know it's not a leak on the vacuum hose side of things. I've ruled that out. And every hose on the car is currently only about a week old (I bought a ton of hose in various sizes and went nuts).

It's just when the egr lets that bit of exhaust in it craps out.

 

And I don't know if it did this with the old carb. Like I sad the old egr valve was frozen shut, and the vacuum hose going to it I found was cracked and plugged with mud. for proly the last year or so by the looks of it.

 

Any ideas?

 

DEQ is next week for me. I'm gonna see if I can get it through without the egr working and the Weber (it's been done on other vehicles like Jeeps/toyotas, they tell me try the Hillsboro station, easy pass there). But would like to get everything working proper.

Edited December 24, 2011 by TeamCF

[the sucker king]

I don't quite understand, You have the port on the carb plugged the look official, but you are openning the EGR valve with a vacuum pump- for what reason? Did you actually try driving the car with the egr hooked up and the screw removed from the port on the weber?

If you were opening the EGR while at idle, it should run like crap. The EGR is only supposed to open at high vacuum- say you are cruising at 60 and take your foot off the gas. If you were just revving the car to see how the EGR is working, you were still not creating high vacuum, and the egr should not be open. It probobly ran like crap because you were opening the valve manually when it should have been closed. I would drive the car with the EGR hooked up and see how it runs.

I don't understand what you are trying to do by blocking the port on the carb and then opening the EGR manually? If you are going to smog it with the EGR capped (and I don't know why you would) Why do you care what the EGR does when open? It will remain closed unless you take that screw out.

 

Or maybe I completely misunderstood what you are doing?

[naru]

You are hooked up to ported vacuum right? Just checking.

Make sure the vacuum port is not uncovered at idle.(check for vacuum)

 

Maybe the ea82 egr flows too much for the ea81?

[TeamCF]

The EA82 egr on the EA81 is actually somewhat common as it's a simpler valve (GD has posted abut it in the past). It's missing an extra port that fed another part of the emissions system that I've long since round filed.

 

I do have it to ported vacuum. It's the one Weber states is for the egr valve (why they give you a screw that fits into it to plug it if your vehicle never had an egr valve).

 

I have tried to drive it with it connected (ran all the way into Portland and halfway back before I couldn't take it anymore and had to just stop and buy some vacuum caps and remove the hose and cap it off). Barely runs.

 

I had the port on the carb plugged and worked the egr with a hand vacuum pump (Mighty Vac) for testing reasons to make sure the vacuum side of the egr valve was ok and not leaking. This also proved to me that it runs great until the valve opens, at any rpm (I know it is supposed to be closed at idle).

This is also at any engine temp (I also know the egr is normally ported through a temp valve so it only receives vacuum once the engine is up to temp, that temp valve is broken and was tossed a long time ago as well).

 

The only thing I'm thinking is maybe there needs to be an orifice in the vacuum line that opens the valve. Might be opening too much. Though it pretty much kills the engine even at high rpms when I manually open the valve even a millimeter.

 

I've done so much testing under every possible running condition it's not even funny.

 

But there is one other thing I need to test. I'll get it warmed up and manually open the valve slightly and spray carb cleaner on the shaft that runs from the diaphragm to the inside of the valve. Maybe it's leaking around that shaft. Causing there to be air getting in as well, (basically a vacuum leak).

I'll check tomorrow.

Edited December 25, 2011 by TeamCF

[the sucker king]

okay, i get what you are doing now, at first it sounded like....never mind.

If you have the egr hooked up at idle, does it run like crap? and then when you pull the line does it go back to smooth? I think the egr should be 100% closed at idle, so if the vacuum at idle is opening it somewhat, we could only assume as vacuum increases it is opening way too much.

Whatever the case, I would just put a different (functioning) egr on and see if that clears up the problem. I know that is not what you want, purchased new they are expensive and at junkyards they are often broken. You can usually tell if one is functioning by removing it and sucking on the hose with the valve in view, you'll see the valve moving.

 

Just an afterthought, when you changed the valve, did you clean out the manifold behind it? There is a ton a carbon deposit built up there, I wonder if a chunk broke loose and has got the valve stuck open?

Good luck and Merry Christmas!

[the sucker king]

oh and one more thing, I don't think it will be a problem to get it smogged (I assume that's what DEQ is?) with the egr hooked up but plugged. In the long run i think you want it to function though.

A more stealth way to plug it is with electrical tape over the opening on the valve, then slip the hose over it.

Edited December 25, 2011 by the sucker king

[TeamCF]

Yup, DEQ is our emissions testing.

Yeah I've thought of just buying a new valve. It is opening it (can barely see it move but it makes the engine stumble) at idle. That's why I think maybe the Weber is supplying too much vacuum and it might need an orifice in the vacuum line to restrict it a bit. And I know I have the right port on the carb for egr. I've checked over and over with various manuals and online resources.

I checked the valve and it works smooth/holds vacuum. But could still be off I suppose.

 

Did clean some gunk out of the manifold. Had a shop vac going to suck it out while I picked away at it. but as with anything. Could proly be done better if I took the manifold off and really cleaned it out.

 

The Webers come with a handy little brass screw that threads into the egr port. then you just hook the hose back up over it. Unless they rev it and watch the valve, no one can tell it's not "actually" hooked up.

No tape required. But that is a good little trick.

The other good one is if you have some BB gun BB's (airsoft is too big). They fit in a vacuum hose perfect and will not fit in a vacuum fitting. Just stick one in the end of the hose and push the hose on. Plugged and no one can tell. And if you really needed to have the hose working again just cut an inch off at that end and it's unplugged again (as long as it's long enough).

 

And this makes me think. The '84 Brat this carb came off of passed Oregon DEQ. And he didn't even have an egr valve on it, or at least it was not hooked up. I got the carb with the egr screw plug in place and it came just as it was on his Brat.

[GeneralDisorder]

Just go change the Primary Place of Use address on the registration to show that it's outside of the testing boundary. There are three addresses on the registration in OR - your residence, your mailing address, and the location of the vehicle (PPU). ONLY the PPU is used to determine if the vehicle is tested or not. They will never mail anything there, nor will they ever look for you personally there because those addresses are different. Think of it like this - if you own a business and have a fleet of vehicles that are registered to you - they could be located anywhere but are not likely to be located where you personally live.

 

I have owned dozens of vehicles and I've been doing it this way for over a decade. In that time I've been stopped by the police probably dozens of times. NOT ONCE has anyone from the police or from the DMV questioned my registration. They don't look and they don't care. It's just not on their radar and they can't prove anything anyway so they don't bother. Even if they could somehow prove that you weren't parking your vehicle at the address listed on the registration - at most they can only make you go and change it because they would have to assume you made a mistake or didn't update your registration, etc.

 

Paying for testing, sitting in line, and waiting for these unfriendly, overpaid a-holes at the state run testing centers is not my idea of a good time. My vehicles run fine and they get to many of my tax dollars already. If they want to leave gaping loop-holes in their paperwork then I damn sure going to use them.

 

95 to 98 EJ's with EGR valves have compatible valves also. They are smaller and easier to work around. I would get one of those if you really want one.

 

GD

Edited December 25, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[TeamCF]

I'll have to look into all of that.