buschiniowa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I wish I had read more of this forum BEFORE i tore into my suby. Bought a 1999 legacy sedan with known bad head gaskets. Pulled motor. Removed heads, cleaned and inspected. No apparent cracks and no warping. used a straight edge and a .002 feeler guage to check for warping of heads. Also checked all valve clearances and adjusted by replacing some of the shims. All intakes are at .008" and exhausts are at .010". Also replaced the timing belt, one bad timing belt idler, all the cam seals, rear main seal,valve cover and head gaskets. Purchased OEM head gaskets from local subaru dealer. Installed motor and it fired right up. Two MAJOR problems. The rear main in leaking like a stuck pig. What could I have possible done so wrong? I now know that since it wasn't leaking to begin with, I should have left it alone. Too bad I wasn't reading http://www.ultimatesubaru.org BEFORE I took out a perfectly good rear main. Second problem is that when I checked the oil level. I found antifreeze in the oil. Off the top of my head, I think the options are that I have a cracked block, or a cracked head. Would a crack in the head be something that I would / should have been able to see with the naked eye? I cleaned up the heads pretty well and didn't see anything. Also, when I installed the heads, I followed the torque specs in a Haynes manual to the letter. Since the new head gaskets for the EJ25 are much different than the original (replacements are multi-layered where the original is just one layer like any normal gasket), should I have torqued them differently? Any other ideas / suggestions? I'm at a loss. Edited January 16, 2012 by buschiniowa head gaskets, not valve cover gaskets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As far as I know the original torque sequence is still recommended. I don't know of any tendency for these blocks to crack, but you should ALWAYS have the heads machined and magnafluxed to check for cracks. Did you drain the old oil from the engine after removing the heads or before? If before, did you leave the drain plug off to let any other fluids that get in the block drain out? The rear main is tricky, but must be installed to exactly the same depth as the original seal. There is usually some buildup on the edge of the crank, that can often be removed with some brake cleaner n a rag and a little elbow grease. Scrub it all off before you try to install the new seal. Coat the whole seal inside and out, especially the lip of the seal that sits against the crank, with fresh motor oil, coat the end of the crank in oil as well, then press the seal on and twist slowly until it slips over the crank and into the bore in the block. Then work around it with a rubber mallet to tap it into the bore, then with a flat tip punch to get it seated the rest of the way. I've done several of these that way. Cross my fingers, I haven't had one fail yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The rear main goes in just a tad below flush. Do not seat it as far as it will go. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) not enough info. Is your car a outback, or more imporantly, is your engine DOHC or SOHC. Maybe the engine is not the same the car came with. Maybe the dealership gave you wrong headgaskets. Please state your engine DOHC or SOHC, and give the part numbers for the headgaskets you used. Did you put on new intake manifold gasket? sounds like you pressed in the rear main incorrectly, so the engine will be coming back out for that too. Once the rear main install is botched, it goes in the trash you buy a new seal, install as above note. Did you replace the rear separator cover too? If not, add that to your list of should do if it is the leaking type, again dependent on if the engine is not the original etc, it could have plastic or metal cover you want to put it back in the car with the metal style cover on your engine. You said you used the haynes manual...... *** I don't think I would use that manual, you should be going with the Subaru newest specs from the dealer for torque procedure on the headbolts. The haynes is likely old values, if they even had it right to begin with. (the haynes was based on the original style gasket, of which you know has changed, it is unlikely the haynes has updated anything on that, where the dealer has updates) Edited January 16, 2012 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschiniowa Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's the twin cam ej25D. The car is a 1999 legacy SUS, which I guess stands for Sport Utility Sedan. It's the 30th Anniversary edition. Leather, CD, sunroof, auto, two tone paint. It was top of the line in 1999, but that was a long time ago. I did NOT replace the intake manifold gaskets or the exhaust manifold gaskets. I did drain the motor of all fluids and screwed on a fresh oil filter. I did NOT replace the water pump, as previous owner said he did it a year ago. I suspect that the head bolt torque specs have got to be different for these newer double layered head gaskets. I'll definitely be contacting my local subaru dealer for specs. Can't wait to see the rear main and figure out what I did wrong. I applied plenty of oil on the seal and crank, and used a large PVC pipe to tap it in. I seated it pretty close to flush....maybe recessed just a hair. I'll snap a photo when I get the motor pulled (hopefully tomorrow night). Lastly, no I didn't replace the separator cover like I should have. It's got the black plastic one. Thanks for all the pointers. It's a good thing that I like working in the garage more than sitting in front of the TV! It's actually a joy to work on a car when that car isn't a guys only means of transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Pulling the same engine the second it goes much quicker. I often reuse intake gaskets and usually reuuse exhaust gaskets. Most will tell you to upgrade to metal baffle plate and the matching screws. I alwyas jsut reseal the plastic one. I did have one that was actually cracked. I too use PVC collar on the rare occasion I have to install a rear main. I always do the WP and idlers, crank/cam seals TB and accessory belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 it may not be the rear main. it may be the plastic cover. they do leak. it will be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It could certainly be the separator plate if you didn't replace/reseal that. This is usually not a very large leak, it tends to take a few minutes for the oil to drip down the block. Split rear main seals can pour oil out like a faucet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschiniowa Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 One more detail. I used a FelPro rear main seal. Should I have gone to Subaru for the seal? Is a FelPro OEM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not sure who makes the OEM seal, I know Fel-pro makes several gaskets for Subaru. I always get the rear mains from Subaru. I just replaced one on an EJ253 that looked like it wasn't that old but it was seeping. It was also black, all of the OE seals I've seen are brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 My dealer doesn't even stock the rear main - so be aware it may take a few days. But it should be brown jsut like the crank/cam seals. Based on seal issues with crank/cam with aftermarket I'd go OEM for the rear myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschiniowa Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I pulled the motor today. Only took 2 hours to pull it and get it bolted up to the engine stand. Much easier the second time around! Ok, in my earlier post, I said I had antifreeze in my oil. I had pulled the dipstick and it seemed to have a green tint. So, after pulling the motor today, I drained the oil into a clear milk jug so I could see the oil / water separate. Strange thing, there wasn't any water in the oil after all. I let the oil sit several hours and nothing separated. However, the oil appeared a little "milky" or "cloudy" for lack of a better term. Any thoughts? As far as the oil leak, I'm not sure if the rear main seal is leaking or if it's the separator plate, as there was oil everywhere. I'm going to definitely replace the separator plate & bolts this time around. Going to throw this black plastic plate in the garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Rarely on a DOHC is there water in the oil. Simply not how they usually fail. Don't be alarmed. The parts store probably has a test kit you can buy to make sure if you'd like. It would be the first DOHC I knew off that got cooland into the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 There is only 3/16" of gasket between the lower water jacket and oil return port on the bottom of the block, if a gasket didn't seat correctly it's entirely possible coolant is getting into the oil. Should have just changed the oil and monitored it for a few days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buschiniowa Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yep, I botched the rear main. Got to looking at it real closely and could see it was a bit deformed and not seating properly against the crank. Live and learn. While there I went ahead and replace the oil separator plate and the bolts. This sucker better purr like a kitten now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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