sube101 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 i want to do an hid conversion for my 82 brat, but i fear of buying a kit that is crap and wont preform very well, does anyone have suggestions on what i should buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I certianly wouldn't do 10,000k - that's basically purple and won't give very good light. Also would attract cops like crazy. 5000k is the brightest in lumens and is nice and white. That's what I am doing on my hatch. I got my kits from HIDextra.com and my sealed beam conversion lamps from automotivelightingusa.com Haven't installed them yet but I expect good things. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sube101 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 i found this kit on ebay im curious if it would work well. i know 10000k is pretty bright but i drive in the boonies all the time so cops isnt an issue http://www.ebay.com/itm/H4666-H4656-CRYSTAL-EURO-DIAMOND-HEADLIGHT-CONVERSION-10000K-HID-KIT-/130600351889?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1982%7CModel%3ABrat&vxp=mtr&hash=item1e68633891 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) No you aren't understanding - 10000k is NOT bright. It has 2/3 less lumens than a 5000k bulb and is VERY bluish-purple looking. Would look silly and not be effective for best light output. The best light output for HID bulbs is acheived at 5000k color temp. Also that's a crappy deal. The conversion housings I bought were $54 shipped and the HID kit with 5000k bulbs (or your choice of whatever temp you like) was black-friday sale priced at $35 shipped from HIDextra.com. Regular price is $70 shipped and you can find a 5% discount code on just about every Honda forum on the web... making those two purchases less than that ebay listing AND you get to choose your color temp and deal with a couple of very reputable site's. Also - that listing is for low-beam replacement on a quad-light 83+ Brat. So unless your '82 has been converted to quad lamps those housings won't fit. Only 2WD's got the quad-lamps in '82. And (still more gripes!) - they claim these have glass lenses - which means they are almost certainly steel backed housings. Which is a BIG problem on a Subaru that uses a ground switched lighting system. The housings will ground and cause the lights to always be on.... though that may not be a problem with the HID bulbs because they are plastic. But it will be a problem if you ever want to run standard H4's. The one's I got from automotivelightingusa.com are 100% acrylic and can't cause a grounding issue - just like the stock sealed beams which are 100% glass. GD Edited January 20, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sube101 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thanks GD.most helpful =) ill have to order from those sites. Any chance I could get the part numbers from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallwelder81 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 the number, 5000k for example, is not a measurement of BRIGHTNESS. 5000k is a specific point in the band of the color spectrum. imagine a rainbow. if you had to, in a technical and accurate way, tell someone the coordinates of a point, like telling someone when new york is located, of a certain shade of red, or a certain shade of green, WITHIN that rainbow, how would you give them directions to find it? its not a 3 dimensional world, its not even 2 dimensional. 2 dimensions, you can go up/down, and left/right. a rainbow is like an fm radio dial. here in seattle-ish area, you have 88.5, which is like jazz and npr boroadcasts, at the start, the minumum frequency for public stations. thats 88.5 KILO HERTZ frequency. and then you have 107.7 which plays alternative rock. 107.7 KILO HERTZ frequency. to get to my point, you can only go UP or DOWN on that radio dial. 1 dimensional. a rainbow, or LIGHTBULB, is the same story. a rainbow is one brightness, or LUMEN from red to to green to purple or what have you. there are no variations in light output, a.k.a. lumens, or candlepower. only variations in color band. thats is what the numbers used in headlight advertising refer to. a color map. spectrum. not a kia spectrum, those are just communist garbage. japanese is the only asian cars worth a damn. but aside from science, id like to throw my personal opinion in there: super bright headlight piss everyone off, and hurt the eyes of oncoming traffic. when you are going 60 mph, and oncoming traffic is going 60mph, and all you have between these 3,000-8,000 pound steel objects, with a combined speed of 120 mph, is BLINDING the guy going towards you, with nothing to seperate you but a millimeter thick strip of yellow paint, really a bright idea? yes, bright would be a pun, thank you. i know about a dozen people personally, who cant see their own damn steering wheel, or count their own fingers, when a set of those excessively bright headlights comes past them at night on the highway. and yet, <thanks china>, the manufacturers and advertisers are crooked enough, and greedy enough, to use SAFETY as a marketing point? there are a lot of things that caused car-crash related death and injuries in the 70s, 80s and 90s. but factory stock headlights are, i would bet my rump roast, at the bottom of that list. my brat headlights are original, and yea, annoyingly, frustratingly dum and weak. and i myself want something a bit brighter. just, you know, take it easy. sometimes an ounce is better than a pound. moderation in all things, is a sign of maturity and wisdom. i like a woman with curves, toothpicks are no fun. but look where taking THAT logic to an extreme gets you. lol... thats all, im out of analogies and metaphors. <bows>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) ^ well said. My own vision can see better with warm lights, not yellow, bot brite white, but something in the spectrum about 4000-4700. Edited January 20, 2012 by bheinen74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Lots and lots and lots and lots of reasons why not to do it, as it is a waste of money. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html Edited January 20, 2012 by nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Lots and lots and lots and lots of reasons why not to do it, as it is a waste of money. "Lots and lots and lots and lots" of reasons? That's just one site and their opinion is well spoken. But frankly not all of us care to listen and prefer to give it a try for ourselves. The conversion housings I got will also fit regular H4 halogen bulbs and if I determine that my $35 HID kit was a waste of money or dangerous then that's what I'll install. Then I'll move the HID system over to the high-beam application where I will only use it to blind people or for off-road lighting. I got the housings for the myriad of options that H4 capable housings offer and because they are acrylic and will not be cracked and chipped by rocks. I'm going to *try* the HID's because they were cheap and if nothing else they will make great off-road toys. I think it's worth noting that I can find plenty more reasons TO do it than NOT to do it. It really depends on what you want them for and having a fall-back plan if they turn out to be a liability for low-beam daily driving. They are still powerful lights and they were REALLY cheap - I will use them for something. GD Edited January 20, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 As i say it is your money, your risk with illegalities and your risk of blinding other drivers. Don't listen to an expert that has been cited here many times before. Also lets ignore that he cites at least 5 references directly back to their sources about how bad it is. So it is not just "one opinion but if you wish to be that way and not click on links http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB1_HID_Retro.pdf http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB4_HID_Retro.pdf http://dastern.torque.net/techdocs/HID/HB1_HID_Retro_a.pdf i am going to drop out of this thread. You have made up your mind, logic and science will not change it sohave fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 As i say it is your money, your risk with illegalities and your risk of blinding other drivers. There is no risk of either one of those off-road. Which is what I will do with them if I get a "fix it" ticket or complaints about their brightness. I want to try them and see for myself. I will have the car driven toward me on a two-lane road while I sit in my car in the oncoming lane to see how bright they are. I'm not going to be stupid about it. The "internet" has a lot of mis-information and so-called "experts" who's only "expertise" is how to hold down an arm-chair. Forums (even this one) tell me I "cant" do stuff all the time - cant rebuild Subaru transmissions, cant replace pressed-in wheel bearings, etc. Bunch of sniveling, arm-chair mechanics that spout this "conventional wisdom" because they are too lazy to find out if it's really impossible or just BS. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhelme Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 GD, most of those arm chair mechanic's have probably read the manual which says that wheel bearings and axles have to be pressed in and out ( and other things). I've been a mechanic over 40 years and reading and listening to the people on this board has added a lot to my knowledge of Subaru's. I am happy to admit that I don't know everything but I do take the time to search and read here at USMB. Over the past 18 years that I have become the local area's Subaru expert but I still have to search the forum occasionally to find info and easier ways to do things on Subaru's. Thanks for the help over the years GD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The one big thing to look out for if you want to convert to HID.... Beam pattern. You want a housing/lens that can produce a sharp cutoff. You can have the power of the sun coming out the front of your car and if the beam cuts off sharp at the top and is aimed properly. No one will be blinded. This is why so many factory HID setups use projector housings. But there are housings that fit our Soobs (I have the Hella H4 conversion in mine, I totally rewired the headlight circuit from the switch out to be common ground switched positive with 10 gauge wire and heavy duty relays) and they cutoff nicely. Considering a HID kit myself. But might just make my overheads HID for night dune runs and such. One thing to look out for too is that some of the cheaper HID kits use so-so bulbs. Meaning that they are not aligned as well as the standard H4 or whatever they are replacing. That can affect said beam pattern. A HID conversion is something I've been researching for several years (since the days when you could not pick up a conversion kit for less than about $500). And I'm still not ready to make a choice. and be careful to find conversion housings that have an internal built in "cap" over the end of the bulb. I went through two sets of housing that did not and they down right were terrible once you hit fog. Big wall of light in front of you from the uncovered end of the H4 bulb. HID will have the same problem as they normally do not have capped bulbs (I only know of one company that will cap them for an extra $20 if you need it). So uncontrolled light can just shine out everywhere. This is why I went with the Hellas in the end. Edited January 21, 2012 by TeamCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Made in China, JUNK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I love reading the negative comments on HID lights. I run 6000K HIDs on mine. Yes they are blue, but they are very bright. You go to 8000K they have less light, more blue... so thats why I chose the 6000K lights. I can see down the road very well and people see me... really well. Its all about the aiming and projection... My housings were NOT built for this kind of lighting, so its not correct, and if I get a fix-it ticket, into the garage and onto Turbones conversion. (Turbone did a very nice projector set-up that I plan to do soon, just havent had the funds yet.) He did his the correct way, and if you have some time, wait until GD does it as you can be reassured he will do things correctly. At night: During the day: Edited January 22, 2012 by 92_rugby_subie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Made in China, JUNK. That's simply not true in all cases anymore. There are TONS of reputable companies that have setup factories in China to make quality goods because of the cheap labor. They bring in experts from highly industrialized countries as well as equipment for both production and quality testing. The Chinese people and government aren't stupid and they are more than capable of finding the flaws in their products and fixing them. The same was said of Japan and then more recently Taiwan and Korea. All of which are making very high quality, name brand goods that you probably aren't even aware are being made there. The same is true for China. If you don't change with the times and open your mind to new ideas and new ways to do things then you'll be left in the dust by the rest of us. Sure we may not make a lot of inexpensive consumer goods here anymore but really - who wants those factory wage-slave jobs anyway? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sube101 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's simply not true in all cases anymore. There are TONS of reputable companies that have setup factories in China to make quality goods because of the cheap labor. They bring in experts from highly industrialized countries as well as equipment for both production and quality testing. The Chinese people and government aren't stupid and they are more than capable of finding the flaws in their products and fixing them. The same was said of Japan and then more recently Taiwan and Korea. All of which are making very high quality, name brand goods that you probably aren't even aware are being made there. The same is true for China. If you don't change with the times and open your mind to new ideas and new ways to do things then you'll be left in the dust by the rest of us. Sure we may not make a lot of inexpensive consumer goods here anymore but really - who wants those factory wage-slave jobs anyway? GD I agree there are a lot of real good quality parts made overseas that my company uses. Our main production cnc bender was made in china and its has over 3 million bends. Our amarican bender which is an eagle has problems left and right and its newer. In any case things aren't as they use to be. Its time to move farward because the past will never come to the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You can have the power of the sun coming out the front of your car and if the beam cuts off sharp at the top and is aimed properly. No one will be blinded. Exactly. Sure - better housings designed for HID's would do a better job of using the light. But as long as the cut-off is sharp and they are properly aimed they will not be dangerous in any way. That's why I elected to go with clear housings with diamond-cut reflectors. Better cut-off and no refractors at the lense to throw the light all over the place. I didn't just throw this idea together. I did my research and made my purchases carefully. The HID kits and bulbs I'm installing are the same one's I used on one of my customer's Acura's. His factory HID balast went out and they wanted $350 for a replacement. For $70 I got BOTH balasts and new bulbs. Just needed a little fab work to install them. Even with my labor he saved money and they are working great for him. I got the same kits but for half price on black friday. I figured - if they don't do what I want I'm only out $35. I want the H4 housings anyway. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lots and lots and lots and lots of reasons why not to do it, as it is a waste of money. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html This only applies if the housing ISN'T modified. The ones that GD talked about are not only the bulbs but also the housing. This makes all the difference in the world. Great article BTW I love reading the negative comments on HID lights. I run 6000K HIDs on mine. Yes they are blue, but they are very bright. You go to 8000K they have less light, more blue... so thats why I chose the 6000K lights. I can see down the road very well and people see me... really well. Its all about the aiming and projection... My housings were NOT built for this kind of lighting, so its not correct, and if I get a fix-it ticket, into the garage and onto Turbones conversion. (Turbone did a very nice projector set-up that I plan to do soon, just havent had the funds yet.) He did his the correct way, and if you have some time, wait until GD does it as you can be reassured he will do things correctly. At night: During the day: And now I get to pick on you Even in the daylight you can see that your housing wasn't modified and you used the bulbs. You have NO CUT OFF what so ever, and it's apparent in the daylight in your pics. Imagine at night! But at least you know it, so it's a little bit better than most people. But you still suck for even putting those damned stupid things in. What a waste of money. I just installed these bad boys into my car, and for $26 for a pair of them, WHAT A DIFFERENCE. http://eiko.com/Products.aspx?CatID=723 Picked them up at NAPA, and these are just replacement bulbs. Nothing is needed to make these work. These are really brighter and whiter than the normal stock replacements, but they are only a few $$ more. With all the bad weather we have had around here lately, and I have to drive at night, I have been more than pleased by just replacing my lights with the clearvision xl's. I really don't know why people insist on putting in those stupid HID bulb conversions when there are options like these that make a huge difference, but without harming others in the process. What a waste of money the HID's conversion bulbs are. Just a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallwelder81 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 youre ALL stupid!! bunch of old ladies arguing over quilt patterns. lol.... just playin... im sure chinas quality is slowly improving, to keep the market interested. but its still relatively garbage. and the attitude of "who wants those jobs anyhow"? thats a rather short-sighted philosophy. when the national population is EXPLODING exponentially, not everyone can be a microsoft executive or a boeing engineer. somebody has to actually CREATE a product, or they wont have a job. and yea, you can just go on welfare and foodstamps. but i assume, that must have a limit. i like the feeling of creating a real product with my own two american hands, here in my own town. i dont care to be force-fed walmart garbage that doesnt last a year. even if its half the price, i dont WANT to drag out my fridge, oven, television, shoes, and pants every year or often less than a year, deal with hauling it to the dump, going to walmart and buying a crappy replacement, and hauling it back home again, etc etc... aside from national pride and environmental reasons, and a strong belief in self, or at least local, reliance, how about the simple basic factor of CONVENIENCE? i dont want inferior chinese garbage, manufactured with toxic chemicals and mountains of lead, being discarded in my backyard, due to the fact that, say whatever you like, GD, but chinese crap DOES NOT LAST. my personal experience in reality. old navy clothes dont last. my TV, like all tvs, is chinese. i bought it in 2003, a 27" sharp, full box tv, crt style. it is now 2012, and i have had ZERO problems with it. sharp picture, good sound, etc... a 27" tv suits me just fine and dandy. and yea, i assume sharp brand is from china. okay. 9 years -- no complaints. say what you will. but harbor freight is garbage. walmart is trailer trash crap for fat slobs in stained sweatpants who gave up on life years ago. if anyone takes offense to that opinion: kiss me when i bend over. when communism is on your porch, cry to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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