whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 1992 subaru legacy 2.2 sohc, timing belt broke while idling. 130k, second belt. Belt was missing teeth from a 6 inch section. Tried a half a dozen times to install properly. The engine obviously has been turned over without the belt. Lined camshafts at 12 at cover marks and crank at mark on bolt. Motor ran perfect before belt broke, hummed, now it sounds like it spins faster turning over and sounds different as well, checked compression on #1 and less than 30lbs pressure? I know somehow I'm missing something? There's plenty of gas, battery fully charged, week spark. It's not in correct time but all lines are correct. What did I forget to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Welcome to USMB. That's not an interference engine. So as long as a mechanical failure didn't cause the belt to strip you should be o.k. as long as it's still aligned on crank and both cams. You need to double check the timing belt alignment before compression checks mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's non-interference so there shouldn't be any damage. What marks did you use when lining up the cam sprockets? You need to use the little hash marks. Do NOT use the arrows. If it stripped that many teeth maybe your geared/toothed idler is shot? That one fails quite a bit and dumps out the little ball bearings everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Your description of the crank alignment has me concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes, I replaced all idlers and tensioner and aligned properly or so I think, a half a dozen times, I think I can do it in the dark! For the life of me I can't get it right. Does the cam sprockets have to be turned all the way around 360 to the marks at 12 again on the covers on intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Replace the water pump as it will begin to fail by 200,000 mi and compromise the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hm yah that doesn't sound right, a mark on the crank pulley bolt? That one should be the little hash mark on the crank sprocket, with the notch on the back of the oil pump like so: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I know you're saying all the marks are correct....but they can't possibly be based on your compression readings unless the engine suffered some damage. You're sure you used the hash marks everywhere, and not the arrows? Or, I have seen sometimes people say the camshaft key gets sheared or bent, but it isn't obvious at first, so the cam timing is actually off even when the mark is lined up. Edited January 21, 2012 by porcupine73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes this is how I have it. It's a Subaru belt, pre-marked belt. Took off tensioner and lower idler, aligned belt on camshaft at marks on belt with marks on sprocket lining up with back cover notch. crank is using notch lining up with notch on bolt, oil pump?re-installed tensioner then lower idler, pulled pin out of adjuster and turned by crank bolt and breaker bar A full completion. WON'T FIRE-UP, YIKES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I always use and recommend the bigger plier type of clamps. Never knew clothes pins would work especially for the crank. You are the man of 1k photo's! And can actually find them - that would be the challange for me. To the OP DOTS and DASHES/Hashmarks and NEVER arrows. Some of the crank splined pulleys have a litte dot on the front to help if you're having trouble seeing the hash at the back especially when doing this in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes this is how I have it. It's a Subaru belt, pre-marked belt. Took off tensioner and lower idler, aligned belt on camshaft at marks on belt with marks on sprocket lining up with back cover notch. crank is using notch lining up with notch on bolt, oil pump?re-installed tensioner then lower idler, pulled pin out of adjuster and turned by crank bolt and breaker bar A full completion. WON'T FIRE-UP, YIKES! Hm ok then with your compression readings, something else must be amiss. I have seen people say one or both of the cam keys sheared or bent and threw the cam timing off, even though the marks were lined up. If yours stripped that many teeth, maybe that happened to yours if the cam suddenly came to a stop? I like to use the same pics over and over haha. The clothes pin just barely fits in the crank sprocket. Someone on here mentioned about using clothes pins. It isn't really needed on the sohc but I bet they would really help on the dohc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 I notice in the picture you have the tensioner in and the gear idler and lower idler out, maybe thats the way I should go, gear idler next then lower idler last, may keep it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 porcupine73, I'm now thinking maybe, just maybe if I change the sequence of reins.talling the idlers I may get a tighter more accurate, my way was kinda hard and thought that it jumped a tooth, will try. I use little wood clamps, the kind you squezze to compress, small and handy, I like the clothes pins though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) That's just before all the idlers were back in. Provided all those marks are still lined up after all the idlers are back in, and before the pin is pulled it is fine. If you're lining up the crank sprocket hash mark, and the cam hash marks are still lining up with the covers, it should be fine (won't line up though with the belt marks on every revolution). If these are lining up, redoing it will not make it any more accurate. But yes, with your compression numbers, either the timing is off, or maybe there was some kind of engine damage, or maybe you have the sheared cam keys mentioned previously. Edited January 21, 2012 by porcupine73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Couple of thoughts. Perhaps remove the belt, compress tensioner again (yea - I know you're probably tired of doing it) and while belt is off turn cam sprockets. Just to make sure they are free. You will feel resistance at some point in the revolution. But they should rotate the whole 360 degrees. And basically the same level of resistance on both sides. Just a thought. ALso I find it easiest to install the lower left idler last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 The cam sprocket, passenger side moves a little different than drivers side, Drivers side stays stiff and springy all 360 rotation. Passenger side has a little 4 inch play at top at lined up marks, is that normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No. Pass side sounds much more normal than drivers. I'm thinking you have mechanical issue on drivers side. ANyone else's thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 4 inch play? Hm....did some of these engines have a potential oil starvation problem for one of the cams due to a blocked oil passage....which could lead to that cam seizing, and stripping a bunch of teeth on the belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 actually they both turn with the same tension and resistance just no play on drivers side, can move passenger a little with my hand, drivers side I need wrench. No strange sounds at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm assuing the play is when it's "freewheeling" with no resistance. And the drivers side has some resistance all of the time - which isn't normal. Both should have some "unloaded" rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now I'm questioning myself on that I'm going out to check it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the3rsss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Any noise before the belt broke? From what you describe, the pass side cam seems normal. The drivers side should have the same , what you call "4in free play" that would be the cam lobes moving off the valves. Sounds like the heads need to come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes drivers side has freeplay, was just that the freeplay on passenger side was at the timing marks and drivers side not, thinking I just need to go in again and reinstall using a different set of sequence on the idlers to get it staying on marks,I think I may have been 1 gear off. Try on Sunday I'll be sure and let you know how it goes and what I did, Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 The3, No noise, was idling waiting for the intercoastal bridge to come down. Ran great up until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yes drivers side has freeplay, was just that the freeplay on passenger side was at the timing marks and drivers side not, thinking I just need to go in again and reinstall using a different set of sequence on the idlers to get it staying on marks,I think I may have been 1 gear off. Try on Sunday I'll be sure and let you know how it goes and what I did, Thanks for the help. The drivers side is always under load at the mark and pass side isn't. The pins are the way to help you stay on the marks (they REALLY come in handy on DOHC's). Don't forget to slide the tensioner all the way to the left on the bolts before tightening those 2 bolts. Do this BEFORE messing with the belt much because often the belt is in the way of those 2 bolts. I install and slide it left before starting with the belt. Good luck. I'm off ot bed soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.