Prwa101 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i have a creamy foam under the oil cap and down the oil tube, loss of water over time in the radiator, and notice a milkyness to the oil. starting rough when cold. is this a head gasket? its my woman's car, and shes gotten it pretty hot a couple times this last summer. just need a second opinion. should i change both gaskets while im at it? easyest to change with the motor in out out? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yes, blown HG for sure. Change the oil and run it through immediately before going in for the repair. You will save much frstration with the valvetrain assembly if you pull the engine first, and yes, do both HGs. it would be silly to only do one when you are looking at it. Figure out why it got hot if you can. once you get an air pocket it can be tricky to burp. more than one overheat will kill the HG. I recommend to replace the water pump as it can become inefficient, ise noew coolant, and make sure the radiator is not corroded. and make sure the thermostat is the correct one. you can reseal the whole engine and do the water pump for less then 300 bucks. Leave the rear main seal alone unless it has been cooked. It is particular to install at the proper depth, and evenly, being it is 4 inches wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Yep you got a headgasket problem. I recomend crc headgasket repair it's pretty amazing stuff and I've seen it last quite a while But if you want to fix it instead, pulling the motor is the way to go milesfox has quite a few videos on YouTube "the art of Subaru maintenance " that series will help you a lot. He doesn't do the headgaskets in the series but the motor pull procedures and the engine reseal is all very good info. You may also consider having the heads resurfaced. Just so you don't get it apart and back together just to have it leak again. Edit/ lol well looks like I was beaten to it .... Stupid itouch. Lol Edited January 30, 2012 by AKghandi Took too long to type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yes, blown HG for sure. Change the oil and run it through immediately before going in for the repair. You will save much frstration with the valvetrain assembly if you pull the engine first, and yes, do both HGs. it would be silly to only do one when you are looking at it. Figure out why it got hot if you can. once you get an air pocket it can be tricky to burp. more than one overheat will kill the HG. I recommend to replace the water pump as it can become inefficient, ise noew coolant, and make sure the radiator is not corroded. and make sure the thermostat is the correct one. you can reseal the whole engine and do the water pump for less then 300 bucks. Leave the rear main seal alone unless it has been cooked. It is particular to install at the proper depth, and evenly, being it is 4 inches wide. yeah we had taken it on a long trip up the river and had to actully leave it up there and get a new radiator for it because it was heating up so bad. on top of her heating it up to where itd die a week before without me knowing... thanks guys! looks like next weeked is going to be a long one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yep you got a headgasket problem. I recomend crc headgasket repair it's pretty amazing stuff and I've seen it last quite a while But if you want to fix it instead, pulling the motor is the way to go milesfox has quite a few videos on YouTube "the art of Subaru maintenance " that series will help you a lot. He doesn't do the headgaskets in the series but the motor pull procedures and the engine reseal is all very good info. You may also consider having the heads resurfaced. Just so you don't get it apart and back together just to have it leak again. Edit/ lol well looks like I was beaten to it .... Stupid itouch. Lol And yeah Iff there warped at all I get the resurfaced. I dont want to have to do anything over agin. Haha I have an iPhone, I know how you feel! Thanks man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you search for post apocalyptic head resurfacing techniques or something like that. I think it was GD who posted it, could help you save a few bucks with the resurfacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would only use the HG-in-a-can if the symptoms were just bubbles in the radiator, but sice you have coolant in the oil, replace the HG. How hot did she get? i am iffy about resurfacing heads. I have never resurfaced them. The only engine that i touched that failed after a hg repair was one with resurfaced heads (but this motor was F*'d by the previous mechanic with missing parts inthe oil pump and the heads on backwards) There will be a slight concavity to the entire surface of the head, which gets squeezed out when torqued down. If you are resurfacing, the heads should be torqued to a torque plate to preserve this. Otherwise, you resurface them , you lose the concavity, and when torqued, the edges of the head could be less in contact than the center of the head. The surface should be smooth since the HG has a graphite facing to allow for expansion. This is my opinion, although i know it is ontrary to the status quo. But i have done many a subaru head gasket this way without failure, so i dont find it necessary to pay a machinist for work if it is not necessary. i cant remember the numbers, but a *slight" concavity is within specifications for the design of the head (i.e by factory standard it is not %100 perfectly flat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 use Fel Pro permatorque headgaskets - any others require a retorque procedure which is annoying. Subaru intake manifold gaskets are far better than the aftermarket flimsy cardboard stuff too. there's a coolant passage associated with this gasket on EA82's and they can leak into the intake. the oring on the cam-carrier is a metal reinforced oring available only from Subaru and a very few other parts retailers - like thepartsbin.com i know has them. used to be $2.13 from the dealer. don't use a regular oring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Use an ultra-grey or 3 ond or similar 'grey' anaerobic sealant for the cam tower where it meets the head. DO NOT USE SILICONE RTV OR IT WILL FAIL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would only use the HG-in-a-can if the symptoms were just bubbles in the radiator, but sice you have coolant in the oil, replace the HG. How hot did she get? i am iffy about resurfacing heads. I have never resurfaced them. The only engine that i touched that failed after a hg repair was one with resurfaced heads (but this motor was F*'d by the previous mechanic with missing parts inthe oil pump and the heads on backwards) There will be a slight concavity to the entire surface of the head, which gets squeezed out when torqued down. If you are resurfacing, the heads should be torqued to a torque plate to preserve this. Otherwise, you resurface them , you lose the concavity, and when torqued, the edges of the head could be less in contact than the center of the head. The surface should be smooth since the HG has a graphite facing to allow for expansion. This is my opinion, although i know it is ontrary to the status quo. But i have done many a subaru head gasket this way without failure, so i dont find it necessary to pay a machinist for work if it is not necessary. i cant remember the numbers, but a *slight" concavity is within specifications for the design of the head (i.e by factory standard it is not %100 perfectly flat) it got pretty darn hot, a couple times... enough for the engine to shut off when she was driving it on the hwy. yeah i will read up on it, cheaper the better.. that why ill be doing it myself. it has about 220k on it, so we'll see when i get her open if i have to do anymore that just the HG. my buddy swears by some stuff called hylomar? its the stuff that NASCAR drivers use on there cars. he never had a problem with it and he runs it in all his rigs. will i need to change out the head bolts and nuts? this will be my first head job, other than seeing my buddy do his on his catty/Ferraro. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's recommended to replace the head bolts but if they torque to spec they should be fine. Also does the car still run? If it got that hot I'd worry about cracked heads( make sure you loosen the head bolts slowly in a crisscross pattern to keep from warping/cracking them.) also I've seen cars that were overheated a couple times and the piston2 and4 had large holes in them( when I poured oil into the cylinder for a compression check and I just heard I drain right into the crankcase. That was on a dodge shadow tho. Sucked too because it had 65k miles and I bought it from the orig owner. If I had the money I woulda fixed it. Sorry to ramble like this but. I know what it's like to tackle a job like this and on a Subaru it's even harder. ( world easiest HG? Dodge 2.2/2.5) I love those motors lol:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have to disagree. Head bolts do not need to be replaced as they are not TTY stly. that is why there are fat washers. Do pay attention of the orientation of the washers, and they are spring type like the axle nuts are, concave side down. this is what torques up. Replacing the bolts is an unneccessary cost. The torque is applied in a 3 step procedure. Any compromise to the torque would be the threads in the block, as too extreme of an overheat will de-grain the aluminum. The haynes manual describes the torque procedure. The diagrams in the haynes book are straight from the FSM the 3 middle bolts are shorter than the rest of them, as they sit deeper in the head. pay attention to this so you don't torque down and bottom out using the wrong bolt, and same with using a short one where the long one goes so it doesn't rip out the thread. the consensus will agree with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah it still runs fine! Just hard start in the morning after sitting for a while, along with a weird idel too. (not normal) I didn't drive it enough to see if I ideld weird when it was warm though, just at a cold start. So it'd prolly be a good idea to change the HG ASAP? Yeah I though so about the bolts, just double checking, because I know some car you have to change them out after a HG job. Yup got two of those Haynes books! pretty good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 well i hope this is the right o ring W0133-1642538. napa wants 26$ for the HG's so that not so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 well just droped he oil... its chocolate milk! yay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 passanger side valve cover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well she's about half way done for all weekend.. Really wasn't thu bad doing the HGs with the motor in... Other than when you put the cam housing back in and messing with the rockets... Damn those things.... Took me all day to get them in right... Guess I'll have to finish it next weekend. Oh and the HGs were pretty bad cyl one was clean so water had been getting into there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 She lives agin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Awesome! Did you take any pictures? I am about to do this on a car that had an original radiator from late '80s until replaced last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Awesome! Did you take any pictures? I am about to do this on a car that had an original radiator from late '80s until replaced last year. I only took two pictures, as I was way to busy trying to get it back together so my woman had a car to drive sorry dude. The only ones I took were of the cyl obviously burning water it in an of the entire thing striped down. It's pretty easy though, I did it with the motor in and it went pretty fast other that the rocker arms and cam case. Use grease to hold them on! Makes a huge difference, I don't even know how i did it! Only took me two weekend with no exspren e doing HGs.. Lol. Miles fox has a lot of vids and things on HGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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