T6 Rotella Oil Choice

[92_rugby_subie]

So I had heard about another board member switching, and saw on NASIOC that some Subaru people are switching to the T6 Rotella motor oil (fully synthetic) that they run in diesel trucks. When I brought up the choice to switch when I get my new motor (rebuilt actually) I had several people say it wont hold up to my driving.

 

 

Currently I run Chevron 10w-30 in NED (1986 Subaru GL, D/R 5 Speed)

I frequently high-rev shift... Never shift below 3K but normally around 4-6K and the occassional "Oh Crap! Shift!" at 7K by accident.

 

Diesel motors run cooler than gas motors? So putting a suitable Diesel oil in a gasoline engine could be a problem is what Im hearing...

 

Anyone currently running it in their EA series? Which viscosity? Should I switch viscosity? How do you drive?

[davebugs]

Been good in my VW TDI (diesel) for 220k now. Them turbo's run hot and spin fast!

 

Actually lots of folks use it in their gassers.

 

I have not yet.

 

Walmart is best price, sometimes Advance auto parts has it but WM is cheapest.

[bheinen74]

I stay away from Shell myself as they have seriously messed up gas sending units in the past. I wont touch them

[maozebong]

it was my understanding that diesel oil is just formulated to burn at a higher temperature than spark ignited oil, due to the extreme compression that takes place in a diesel.

 

i found a local parts store near me that carries 10w-30 rotella, non-synth. i use it with great results, seems to be a bit thicker than the average 10w30. ive tried rotella t6 once, but due to some issues with oil leaks and a non-dealer pcv valve (i burned up 4qts in 1500 miles until i changed it for a dealer PCV) burning up all my oil, it didn't stay n the motor long

[bheinen74]

who cares shell has proven fail

 

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/settlements/07687/shell-gas-settlement.html

 

I lived in New Orleans when this happened.

i will never put that in my car again

 

It broke my acura tl guage.

 

I will never spend a dime on shell again

[Stubies Subie]

who cares shell has proven fail

 

It broke my acura tl guage.

 

I will never spend a dime on shell again

 

sorry, but I have to say this:

 

Sounds to me like that was a bad batch of fuel, could happen to anyone, the lawsuit isn't about compensation, it's about a lawyer get rich quick scheme.

 

The last line on that link states “a judge has ordered $6.8 million to be divided among 79 attorneys in the class action suit.”

 

How did that benefit the consumer? Shell had already taken action to fix their wrong by replacing speedometers in tens of thousands of vehicles at a cost of $200 to $1,000 each.

 

The same thing happened to John Deere over some mismarked engines that were installed in some tractors, some attorneys got rich at John Deere’s expense, does that make Jon Deere a bad company that shouldn’t be selling tractors? Ask a farmer who has one.

 

I run Shell fuels, bad fuel happens, bad attorneys that only see dollar signs happen.

 

I had my truck accidently filled up at a Texaco station one time with Diesel, so do I stop buying fuel from Texaco? If we all did that, we wouldn’t be buying anything from anyone because everybody makes mistakes at some point in their lives, we’re human, it’s unavoidable.

[maozebong]

x2.

 

 

bad gas happens all the time. its not just shell.

 

as far as their oil is concerned, its one of the most trusted brands of oil for a diesel truck.

[Stubies Subie]

x2.

 

 

bad gas happens all the time. its not just shell.

 

as far as their oil is concerned, its one of the most trusted brands of oil for a diesel truck.

 

it's also the highest rated on the market right now

[92_rugby_subie]

So Im thinking I will go with it.

 

Should I stick with 10w-30? Go to 5w-40?

 

I drive hard.... I am doing the SPFI motor so I get a little more compression, torque cams and of course my weber 32/36 and I plan to drive it like I stole it, Ive been careful on my current motor cuz of the HG leak... With the rebuilt motor... nope haha

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Well... I've used Diesel oil on Gasoline engines for Years, but you should check if the Diesel Oil carry the Additives Package for gasoline engines too, if not AVOID use it.

 

Let me Explain: The American Petroleum institute (API) Has Two ways to classify Motor Oils: the Gasoline Motor Oils are clasified under the "S" Letter (From "Spark" combustion engine) While Diesel engine oil is clasified under the "C" Letter (From "Compresor" Combustion engine)

 

The American Petroleum Institute (API) has a program to certify that oil can meet the strict Performance and quality standards put in place by the OEM. The Service Rating is shown in the API “Service Seal” on the product label, that may look like one of these:

 

 

 

 

So, The letter that follows the "S" or the "C" will let you know if the Additives Package (Detergents, Dispersants, etc... ) is Better or Worse for your application.

 

Any Letter from "A" to "Z" could be next to the "S" or "C" Letter, the more Newer Classification will place a Newer Letter there, as Follows:

 

• SA = Early -older- motor Oils, Very Basic and without any Additive.
  

• SL = Very Recent Classification, includes a Complete Additive Package for Gasoline Engines under the APi Norm.
  

Diesels must read as Follows:

 

• CF = -or any other Letter instead the "F" like CH, etc.- (Could have a Number 2 or 4 Next to it) The CF or CF4 are for Normal (four Stroke) Diesel engines, while CF2 oils are for Two Stroke engines.
  

So, back on Subject: if that Shell Oil has, Beside its CF's or CG's or CH's Diesel oil APi classification, any "S" Classification, you could pour it on a Gasoline Engine, if it Doesn't have any "S" (such like SL or SH or SM) Classification, then Avoid pouring it onto ANY Gasoline engine.

 

I Kindly Suggest you to Check ANY Motor oil to see if it has the Round Seal from the API ... as the above posted Examples.

 

And the SAE Grade inside the Seal's Circle.

 

If you Pour "Diesel Only" Oils in Gasoline Engines could be somehow, Harmful for the Engine in certain way... While the Diesel with gasoline Additives Pack included are Very Good and Outstanding Oils for Gasoline Engines.

 

On the Other Hand: if you Pour just "Gasoline" Non-diesel motor oil on a Diesel Motor Oil, the Oil will be Blackened almost inmediately and will fail for Proper Lubrication and Protection of the Metallic Surfaces... Beside other malfunctions.

 

The newest Service category Rating for Gasoline engines in 2012 model year cars and light trucks is “SN.”

 

The API SN rating is equivalent to the new GF-5 oil rating by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC).

 

The new SN and GF-5 rated motor oils are backward compatible and can be used in any older engines.

 

For Diesel engines, API has a separate Rating system. The current category is “CJ-4” (introduced in 2007 for newer diesels that have exhaust gas recirculation). The previous CI-4 (2002), CH-4 (1998) CG-4 (1995) and CF-4 (1990) categories all can be used in older four-stroke diesel engines. CF-2 (1994) is the API classification for two-stroke Diesels.

 

I Hope this will Help, because Motor oils Shall not be Choosen by Brand or Marketing, but by the API Classification and SAE Grade considering the Specific Application where they're Needed.

 

Kind Regards.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo
Mispelled Word... Again!

[Stubies Subie]

from what I just read here: http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/products_services/lubricants/rotella/rotella_t6.pdf

 

it's SM, SL, SH rated

 

Well... I've used Diesel oil on Gasoline engines for Years, but you should check if the Diesel Oil carry the Additives Package for gasoline engines too, if not AVOID use it.

 

Let me Explain: The American Petroleum institute (API) Has Two ways to classify Motor Oils: the Gasoline Motor Oils are clasified under the "S" Letter (From "Spark" combustion engine) While Diesel engine oil is classified under the "C" Letter (From "Compresor" Combustion engine)

 

So, The letter that follows the "S" or the "C" will let you know if the Additives Package (Detergents, Dispersants, etc... ) is Better or Worse for your application.

 

Any Letter from "A" to "Z" could be next to the "S" or "C" Letter, the more Newer Classification will place a Newer Letter there, as Follows:

 

• SA = Early -older- motor Oils, Very Basic and without any Additive.
  

• SL = Very Recent Classification, includes a Complete Additive Package for Gasoline Engines under the APi Norm.
  

Diesels must read as Follows:

 

• CF = -or any other Letter instead the "F" like CH, etc.- (Could have a Number 2 or 4 Next to it) The CF or CF4 are for Normal (four Stroke) Diesel engines, while CF2 oils are for Two Stroke engines.
  

So, back on Subject: if that Shell Oil has, Beside its CF's or CG's or CH's Diesel oil APi classification, any "S" Classification, you could pour it on a Gasoline Engine, if it Doesn't have any "S" (such like SL or SH or SM) Classification, then Avoid pouring it onto ANY Gasoline engine.

 

I Kindly Suggest you to Check ANY Motor oil to see if it has the Round Seal from the APi ... it looks like a Lawyer's Seal (I'm Lawyer ) with letters all Around saying something like:

 

API SERVICES: CF4 - SH

 

And the SAE Grade inside the Circle: SAE 20W~50 in Example.

 

If you Pour "Diesel Only" Oils in Gasoline Engines could be somehow, Harmful for the Engine in certain way... While the Diesel with gasoline Additives Pack included are Very Good and Outstanding Oils for Gasoline Engines.

 

On the Other Hand: if you Pour just "Gasoline" Non-diesel motor oil on a Diesel Motor Oil, the Oil will be Blackened almost inmediately and will fail for Proper Lubrication and Protection of the Metallic Surfaces... Beside other malfunctions.

 

I Hope this will Help, because Motor oils Shall not be Choosen by Brand or Marketing, but by the API Classification and SAE Grade considering the Specific Application where they're Needed.

 

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

If it's SM, it will work Fine on the Gasoline engine, but search for the proper SAE Grade for your Engine.

 

Kind Regards.

[92_rugby_subie]

Maybe Im not lookin in the right spots... Im reading 15w-40 SAE on a 1991 Loyale (what I use for mine since it will have the engine of a 1991 Loyale in it)

[maozebong]

CI oils are intended for keeping combustion byproducts (soot/carbon/etc) suspended in the oil. diesels have much dirtier combustion byproducts than a SI engine. but on a side not, that is less carbon and soot that will build up in your oiling system.

 

diesel oils are designed with longer service life in mind along with the pressures of >15:1 CR. the oil tends to be additive rich to

 

im going to have to disagree with you that using diesel oil is bad. i can only agree that if it is an outdated API rating, to not use. but you also have to consider, the EA82 was designed 20 years ago, with older and outdated oil additive packs.

 

 

also, upon further research, diesel oils have high zddp content (zinc) which is good for bearings and other metal to metal contact points because the zinc deposits on the metal surfaces and wears away the zinc instead of the part itself.

 

they don't recommend use of diesel oils because of emission laws mostly, and the fact zinc can cause premature catalytic converter failure.

 

 

long story short, its good for your engine, not that good for the environment. diesels just fall under a different emissions category.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Yes, I Agree that a Diesel Motor Oil with Gasoline additive Pack (an "S" with other letter next) will be Better on the Gasoline Engine than the Gasoline-only Motor Oils.

 

In fact, I use the 15W~40 Delo 400 Diesel Motor Oil on my Wife's Kia Sephia.

 

But the ones to avoid pouring on the Gasoline Engines are those Diesel-Only motor oils, those that Doesn't have any "S" = Any Gasoline additive Pack on their mixture, just Diesel Additive Packs...

 

There's a Difference on Diesel Motor Oils, not all are formulated Equal.

 

Kind Regards.

[bratman2]

Somewhat related but there has been much discussion over the 15W40 and T5 5w40 oil on the Suzuki Bandit forum that I also frequent. The Suzuki Bandits are 1200cc air/oil cooled MC with the transmission sharing the oil. Most Bandit owners that tried the T5 tried it only once due to shearing down pretty fast. Indicated by shifting getting crappy around 2k miles. Second it is a hydrocracked synthetic also. The few that are big Shell fans prefer the 15w40 over T5. If I was you and that concerned about oil abuse in my motor I would use Mobil 1 0W40 which is a true PAO oil and is considered by many to be the best oil that Mobil makes. Some Walmarts carry it for around $6.50 a quart, some don't carry it at all. It stays wiped out at the only Walmart that carries it close to me. So I get them to order it for me a 6 pack at the time. You can check the Walmarts close to you online to see if they carry it. They will hold it for you if you order it. That is what we use in my wife's Forester XT.

[92_rugby_subie]

 

 

long story short, its good for your engine, not that good for the environment. diesels just fall under a different emissions category.

 

Environment isnt a concern for me... Im surrounded by Pri (plural prius?) and I have a weber with no emissions and a 2.5" cherrybomb... I dont come or go quietly nor do I do it without dumping fuel for sure.

 

I just want to run a synthetic oil and change it about ever 4-5k miles to keep my motor clean, I wont have it that long, after the rebuilt EA82 comes an EJ22t but Id like the next owner of my EA82 to not have to worry about if its going to blow up.

[discopotato03]

Hard to get in Australia but I just changed to the T6 so called synthetic Rotella a couple of days back .

The value most seem to put on this oil is that its cheaper than most high enough ZDDP content oils so a dollars and cents win . BTW ZDDP stands for Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate , its a good anti scuff/wear additive for older engines that drag cam lobes over rockers like an EA82 engine does .

More current engines had to resort to rockers with rollers in them to survive "Green Oils" that have a lot less ZDDP .

Imo an EA82 is a first generation polluted engine , EFI one anyway , and from an era before these late garbage oils existed .

I reckon if you are really worried about your cat change it but still use real oil .

 

A .

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I Forget to Write that the DELO 400 Motor Oil has a "ISO-SYN" Technology, they claim that it Rivalizes with Synthetic Oils:

 

"Chevron's proprietary ISOSYN technology combines highly refined base oils with advanced additives to create products that rival synthetic lubricants in critical performance tests."

 

As could be Read here:

 

http://www.deloperformance.com/products/engine-oils.aspx

 

 

But the regular Delo 400 "ISO-SYN" is a Group II dino oil that has undergone some Newfangled Refining processes; It's an excellent dino oil, but is not "synthetic" by any chance; So, in my Own Humble opinion it's not "Real" synthetic but is very good oil nevertheless. I Recommend it to anybody who Doesn't want to spend much Money on Synthetic oils, but Still have great performance Oil.

 

So don't be fooled by the "ISO-SYN" thing. That's just a Marketing Slogan.

 

Kind Regards.

[92_rugby_subie]

Hard to get in Australia but I just changed to the T6 so called synthetic Rotella a couple of days back .

The value most seem to put on this oil is that its cheaper than most high enough ZDDP content oils so a dollars and cents win . BTW ZDDP stands for Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate , its a good anti scuff/wear additive for older engines that drag cam lobes over rockers like an EA82 engine does .

More current engines had to resort to rockers with rollers in them to survive "Green Oils" that have a lot less ZDDP .

Imo an EA82 is a first generation polluted engine , EFI one anyway , and from an era before these late garbage oils existed .

I reckon if you are really worried about your cat change it but still use real oil .

 

A .

 

So are you recommending against it?

 

Im still not sure WHICH oil to run? 5w-40? 10w-30? 10w-40? 15w-30? 15w-40? I know it depends on my climate, but I have a friend running 5W-40 in his car because thats what his dealer recommends... So I called my Subaru dealer and got "Honestly, that car is so old, its not going to care what oil you put in it, just make sure its changed regularly and dont bother wasting your money on synthetic oils"

[Caboobaroo]

How many miles on the vehicle? How many engine gaskets have been replaced?

 

On vehicles that have had a either regular petroleum based oil or a blend oil, typically will start to leak worse if its changed to a full synthetic.

 

Did this on the engine I had swapped into my '87 coupe. Started leaking worse after 10k miles, to the point where I was having to add oil every 2k miles. Doesn't make sense to use such expensive oil on a vehicle that's going to leak it all out. Solution is to do a complete reseal and start fresh.

[92_rugby_subie]

176K on my carbed 86 GL. Motor is out of a 1991 Loyale (SPFI) with about 145-150k miles on it, getting a full rebuild and torque grind from Delta cams. So it will have 0 miles on it when I drop it back in... New seals, new gaskets etc.

[92_rugby_subie]

Bump - still looking for a preference on oil...

 

Not sure if I wanna put 15-40 in when Ive always run 10-30 but what is good for performance? I dont plan to baby my motor after its break in period...

[discopotato03]

In Aus speak thats 230-240 thousand frog miles or kilometers .

I agree with the dealer than in an engine with a lot of miles it isn't going to care about a specific oil viscosity as long as it can maintain acceptable oil pressure .

The thing is that most of society cannot figure why people still drive old cars and most late things are low mileage and built to different standards .

My 87L factory WSM quotes 15W/30/40/50 oils depending on the climate the car lives in .

Personally I'm not sold on these 0W20 0W30 and 10W30 oils because I believe they are used to minimise oil drag so manufacturers can crow about getting 50 mpg . Also crow about lifetime cost cycles meaning extended oil use periods and who cares about the thing when it has 40K miles on it because the original owners probably flicked it .

My spider XT4 engine was rebuilt so it had new bearings rings and seals , not so sure with a high mileage engine . One thing you HAVE to do with EA82s is fit new front and rear crankshaft seals and every water hose they have . Doesn't hurt to do the oil pump gaskets and seals and may as well throw belts tensioners idlers and a water pump at it too .

 

Anyway with oils I think a 40 weight is a reasonable minimum from an 80s designed engine and a lowish cold pouring index number shouldn't be a problem . A 50 weight is getting up there and I don't think it does anything that a 40 weight cant do unless the engine runs really hot or its clearances are really big .

 

A .

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I Wonder if people in USA Run their EA82's with thin oils, such like 10W~30, because their Cold winters with Snow...

 

Since my Dad obtained New the EA82 BumbleBeast in 1985 (it came Runnin' from California -USA- to Honduras), our Local Dealer said to us to use always 20W~50 Motor Oil.

 

However, I've ran my Subie with 20W~50 almost all the Time, all these 27 Years, but a Couple of times (Recently) I've Poured 15W~40 that I had New for my Wife's Kia... Both were Great Quality Oils.

 

I Noticed that the Hydro Lifters became Noisy on the Thinner (15W~40) oil, and the Noise completely Disappeared again when I came back to Use the Thicker (20W~50) Oil.

 

But that could be due to Two Facts: Our Warm Caribbean Climates and / or the Engine on my BumbleBeast is so accustomed to heavy oil.