GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ok. That sounds promising. How about the front? I was planning on using the Legacy 5spd full time AWD transmission, the Legacy steering knuckles and 5 lug hubs. How can I make cv axles the correct length with the correct ends? As I said we are making custom races for the front axles. That's what I've been talking about this whole time.... GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 right, but you said races only for outer(hub side) correct? What about the tranny side? The cup on the tranny side of the legacy axle is nothing like the other races. It has 3 circular bearings instead of the 6 bearing star race.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It has 3 circular bearings instead of the 6 bearing star race.. All will be made clear when we post about the custom races and axle builds. Suffice to say that the single axle you have dissasembled is not representative of all legacy axles. There's about a dozen different varieties. Don't worry about the one you have not being compatible. Some are. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I hate to sound like an ignorant child with all these questions but I've learned more on this site in the last month than I was able to learn in the last 2 yrs of internet research I've done. I am curios about the front control arms. I've read a lot about people having to use the front control arms from an xt6. Is that just because of the lower ball joint not fitting? Or is it more about length and positioning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86hatchback Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The xt6 arms are used if your doing the five lug swap on an ea82. With the ea81 you need to get the control arms reamed out to fit the xt6/ej ball joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Better option is to sleeve the EA81 ball joints with a section of 1-1/4" exhaust tubing - notched for the pinch bolt and tack welded to the ball joint of course. XT6 arms won't fit the EA81 - too long. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 What's the difference in length Between the ea81, ea82 and xt6 lower control arms? I can't find any of there lengths. except the ea81 arms on my Brat.. I put the struts and steering knuckles into the brat today but it seems like my lower control arms could use to be an inch or so longer to get the right alignment with the knuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You did this with it in the air or with the weight of the car on them? GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 You did this with it in the air or with the weight of the car on them? GD I think that would have been impossible with it on the ground... I have the whole car up on blocks. But the Legacy struts/steering knuckles are an inch or so longer from strut top plate to lower ball joint. It appears to me like a half inch to an inch longer control arms would make the strut sit in the right position with the ball joint at less of an angle. And if the xt6 or ea82 control arms are just that much longer and have the larger ball joint taper, it would make my life a little easier. If it means making a one or two inch lift for the back to make it sit right, that looks like some thing I could manage. Just a few steel spacers and maybe some longer shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 XT6 control arms are much longer. Several inches. They will not work. When you put the weight of the car on them they will compress. Depending on the spring rate they may compress more or less than the EA81 springs. Thus the uncompressed length is pretty much meaningless. When you put it on the ground and drive it the camber will settle out. It's also adjustable with EJ knuckles and struts. The upper strut bolt is a camber adjusting cam bolt. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 I hear what you're saying. I tried to change the lower ball joints out to the Brat ball joints with the 1 1/4 exhaust pipe shim(Great idea by the way). Took both Brat ball joints out no problem But the first Legacy ball joint bolt sheered off at the head. Just my luck... Tomorrow I have snow coming in so I have to work. But next chance I get, I will drill that out, try to get the other out, fit the brat ball joints in there and drop the front end down. I think I may still have to open up the wheel wells a bit to get the struts to fit a little less snug... They rub when turning the knuckle.. Cleaned out cabin air box/mouse nest as well as every air distribution piece that sits under the dash. Started simplifying my Legacy wiring harness and have a question. Would it be possible to use the wiring and gauges from the legacy? I figure the ecu is controlling the engine, should have no problem displaying all the gauges from the Legacy dash with the correct wiring. I will have to do some cutting and modifying of the Brad dash to fit the gauges but I have a couple dash trims to play with to make the Legacy gauges fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Is there going to be a lack of fuel pressure because of the fuel injected ej22 using the gas tank and fuel lines from the carburated ea81? This came from the Legacy gas tank. I found the Brats' fuel pump(I think) tucked up in the undercarriage but not sure if it will be enough. I keep reading ej swap threads that say that you don't need another fuel pump but I think that they were in an ea82? Might have been SPFI to begin with.. And other ej swap threads of those who have installed an external fuel pump.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Would it be possible to use the wiring and gauges from the legacy? Not neccesary. The only gauge sender that doesn't work correctly is the coolant temp and you can (if you are careful) fit the EA gauge sending unit in the EJ's coolant cross-over. Legacy cluster has no voltage or oil pressure either so it's not a desireable way to go. If you haven't stripped a harness before - you should send it to one of us that do these all the time. You are going to go down the wrong path with your first harness and it's better if you see how we structure them before you try stripping one on your own. You can't run the Legacy fuel pump. It's an in-tank pump and the Brat is setup for an external pump. You need to run something like an EA82 SPFI pump (I use these most of the time since they are cheap in the yards) or the Ford F-150 pump. You need a 50 psi capable pump. The Brat's carb pump puts out 2.5 psi and it will not even come close to working. Won't even start the engine in fact. You will also have to replace all the Brat's fuel lines for the fuel supply downstream of the pump as well as for the return side with high-pressure fuel injection hose. The stock hoses will not handle the pressure that EJ's run at and will burst. GD Edited February 11, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It appears to me like a half inch to an inch longer control arms would make the strut sit in the right position with the ball joint at less of an angle. And if the xt6 or ea82 control arms are just that much longer and have the larger ball joint taper, it would make my life a little easier. It's not just a length issue. The EA81 arms pivot off the inner edge of the rear part of the crossmember. The arms angle backwards from those pivots. EA82 and XT6, the pivot is mounted to the outer side of the rear of crossmember, about 2 inches further back on the car. The arms are 90 degrees to the centerline of the car, no angle like the EA81s have. so if you just mount an EA82 or XT6 arm on an EA81 chassis, the ends of the arms would be too far forward relative to the radius rods, and simply prying them back would put an extreme twisting action on the pivot. You could add a whole EA82 crossmember......I did this on my EA81, got the idea from S'Ko here on the board......he did it with his brat. Opens up power steering options, widens the track, corrects the terrible EA81 camber, and opens up axle and brake options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 You can't run the Legacy fuel pump. It's an in-tank pump and the Brat is setup for an external pump. You need to run something like an EA82 SPFI pump (I use these most of the time since they are cheap in the yards) or the Ford F-150 pump. You need a 50 psi capable pump. The Brat's carb pump puts out 2.5 psi and it will not even come close to working. Won't even start the engine in fact. You will also have to replace all the Brat's fuel lines for the fuel supply downstream of the pump as well as for the return side with high-pressure fuel injection hose. The stock hoses will not handle the pressure that EJ's run at and will burst. GD Thanks. Good to know! If the price on the wiring harness wasn't so high, I would have already sent it out. I have considered it. I bought a shop repair manual specifically for the 98 Legacy wagon. Kinda frustrating having it on a pdf file with the LHD, RHD and Taiwan models all bunched together, but I've printed out all of the proper wiring diagrams. I have the wiring harness almost completely apart and I have everything labelled and grouped. Will I need to splice in any of the wiring from the brat? Or can I run just the engine off the ECU and everything else from the original Brat wiring? If I'm going to use the original dash gauges, I will have to swap the tach cable right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If I'm going to use the original dash gauges, I will have to swap the tach cable right? Tach Cable??? You mean speedo cable? No, brat Speedo cable will install right into the EJ 5spd. You WILL want to pull your dash cluster, and the wiring for the VSS and the CEL (ECS) light. read GD's SPFI swap for details about those wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Or can I run just the engine off the ECU and everything else from the original Brat wiring? That's basically how it works, yeah. There are a couple things like the VSS, tach, and CEL that either will have to interface with the Brat's wiring or optionally can for a more correct/complete installation. To run the EJ completely bare-bones all you need to hook up is constant power, ignition switched power, start signal (from the starter solenoid), and the fuel pump power from the FP relay to the fuel pump. Everything else is optional but the engine will exhibit strange/annoying behavior without most of the "optional" connections. I charge $250 for OBD-I harnesses, and $200 for ODB-II harnesses.... plus shipping. But I don't touch stuff that's already been half stripped :-p I sugest you learn how to solder and heat shrink. Without a doubt the most important skill for harness work. And buy a label maker. GD Edited February 11, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Tach Cable??? You mean speedo cable? No, brat Speedo cable will install right into the EJ 5spd. You WILL want to pull your dash cluster, and the wiring for the VSS and the CEL (ECS) light. read GD's SPFI swap for details about those wires. Right.. I meant speedo cable.. My bad. That's basically how it works, yeah. There are a couple things like the VSS, tach, and CEL that either will have to interface with the Brat's wiring or optionally can for a more correct/complete installation. To run the EJ completely bare-bones all you need to hook up is constant power, ignition switched power, start signal (from the starter solenoid), and the fuel pump power from the FP relay to the fuel pump. Everything else is optional but the engine will exhibit strange/annoying behavior without most of the "optional" connections. I charge $250 for OBD-I harnesses, and $200 for ODB-II harnesses.... plus shipping. But I don't touch stuff that's already been half stripped :-p I sugest you learn how to solder and heat shrink. Without a doubt the most important skill for harness work. And buy a label maker. GD I do know how to solder and I thought electrical tape would do the trick vs. heat shrink.. What type of strange behavior are you talking of? And which optional connections would fix this behavior? As for the label maker, I hear you there! My duct tape/sharpie marker labels are already starting to become hard to read.. But between the 2 Legacy manuals and the 3 Brat manuals, I think I can figure out what's what. I spoke to my father last week and he told me that my first car, 89 Subaru GL 3 door is still out behind his house. I went to check it out today hoping that it was an ea82 that I could take the cross member and lower control arms from. but when I popped the hood I found a clearly marked ea81. When I shoved my head underneath, I noticed that the control arms are straight from the cross member not angle back like my Brat. I'm going to try to pick it up this week so I can get underneath it better and get accurate measurements. Some A-hole smashed my Brat wind sheild so I took some rough measurements of the GL 3 door wind shield. They seem to be the same size. Does any one know if they are compatible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I do know how to solder and I thought electrical tape would do the trick vs. heat shrink.. Electrical tape is never used in contact with bare wires, and IMHO should never be used for anything except wrapping up a completed harness, organizing wires into bundles, etc. It is not air/water tight like properly applied heat shrink is. What type of strange behavior are you talking of? All kinds of stuff. CEL, Weird/erratic idling, tendancy to die while coasting with the clutch in, loss of power, innability to rev past a certain RPM..... depends on what you don't hook up and which ECU it's running. And which optional connections would fix this behavior? You need everything hooked up properly. None of the connections are optional if you don't want some kind of unhappiness from the ECU. There is between one and two dozen connections between the ECU harness and various parts of the car to get everything working properly. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Electrical tape is never used in contact with bare wires, and IMHO should never be used for anything except wrapping up a completed harness, organizing wires into bundles, etc. It is not air/water tight like properly applied heat shrink is. GD That makes sense. I will definitely look into heat shrink. All kinds of stuff. CEL, Weird/erratic idling, tendancy to die while coasting with the clutch in, loss of power, innability to rev past a certain RPM..... depends on what you don't hook up and which ECU it's running. You need everything hooked up properly. None of the connections are optional if you don't want some kind of unhappiness from the ECU. There is between one and two dozen connections between the ECU harness and various parts of the car to get everything working properly. GD You wouldn't happen to have a list of these things would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 I found this but is there anything else I should be aware of? Also, the Brat never had cruise control. Is it possible to use the cruise control components from the Legacy? Off the top of my head: ECU Manifold sub-harness connectors Ignitor Cam sensor Crank sensor Knock sensor O2 sensor MAF sensor Alternator connections Grounds (one's used by remaining components) FP Relay Ignition Relay FP/Ignition power ECU power ECU backup power Power supply diode pack CEL ground wire VSS signal wire Neutral switch wire Start signal wire Tach signal wire I might be missing some..... as I said that's from memory. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86hatchback Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's not just a length issue. The EA81 arms pivot off the inner edge of the rear part of the crossmember. The arms angle backwards from those pivots. EA82 and XT6, the pivot is mounted to the outer side of the rear of crossmember, about 2 inches further back on the car. The arms are 90 degrees to the centerline of the car, no angle like the EA81s have. so if you just mount an EA82 or XT6 arm on an EA81 chassis, the ends of the arms would be too far forward relative to the radius rods, and simply prying them back would put an extreme twisting action on the pivot. You could add a whole EA82 crossmember......I did this on my EA81, got the idea from S'Ko here on the board......he did it with his brat. Opens up power steering options, widens the track, corrects the terrible EA81 camber, and opens up axle and brake options. Hey this might sound crazy but why can't you just cut the bushing tube off the control arm and pivot it so it would be in the right spot and the reweld the bushing tube back in place? Might have to elongate the radius rod holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Hey this might sound crazy but why can't you just cut the bushing tube off the control arm and pivot it so it would be in the right spot and the reweld the bushing tube back in place? Might have to elongate the radius rod holes. Using the ea81 control arms? Interesting idea. Not sure how safe I feel about my welding skills to do something like that. All I have is a stick welder and I'm still kinda learning. I'm comfortable welding sheet metal in places to replace rust holes but I don't know if I trust myself welding any thing structural like that. I'm really hoping that my 89 GL hatch cross member and control arms fix the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86hatchback Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That would be with ea82 or xt6 arms. I was looking at both ea81 and ea82 turbo crossmembers and it seems like you'd need to transfer the outer ears and internal brace from the ea82 to make it strong as factory. Hoping the experts chime in on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyter1983 Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117101&highlight=custom&page=3 86Hatchback check this out. I think that's what 1982gl4 did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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