l75eya Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So I've just been moseying around in the FSM. I fixed ben's tick of death a couple of months ago by replacing the oil pump. When it was ticking I did my best to read through the boards and figure out what was wrong, and from what I gathered, what happens is the hydraulic valve lash adjusters don't get the amount of oil into them they need to function properly. What I'm trying to figure out, is exactly how this all works. I was wondering if somebody could try and explain it to me if you guys are bored lol. Here is a picture from the FSM Now I do know that the lobe on the cam spins against the rocker, and that pushes the valve in, opening the seal and allowing oxygen/gas/ in on the intake stroke and allows exhaust gases out on the exhaust stroke. The valves are closed during the combustion stroke. What I can't quite picture is how the lash adjuster functions. The valves stay closed through spring force, correct? What does the lash adjuster do, in what way does it push up against the rocker? Does it push up against the rocker? Just curious guys, I'd love to read an explanation if anybody has the time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 lash adjuster is a fancy way of saying hydraulic lifter.It is actually the pivot point for the rocker arm. the 'lash adjuster' keeps the gap in spec. does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 lash adjuster is a fancy way of saying hydraulic lifter.It is actually the pivot point for the rocker arm. the 'lash adjuster' keeps the gap in spec. does that help? Okay, yeah. That does help. It's a little hard to picture it working that way from that illustration (where in the picture it just appears to be floating just under the rocker arm). Alright so I can picture that, the tiny piston coming out of the HLA is constantly applying pressure to the rocker arm. To keep the gap in spec, you're talking about the gap between the rocker arm and the tip of the valve stem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) "What does the lash adjuster do, in what way does it push up against the rocker?" The plunger spring, far left, pushes up on the check ball retainer and plunger, consequently pushing up on the actual lash adjuster, (the top piece) and takes the slack out. FYI, The check ball spring is a magnet and is attracted to the retainer and ball, they stick together to keep the check ball on track. When oil under pressure enters the low pressure chamber (the area inside the two top right pieces) through the body and the holes in the lash adjuster, the plunger spring is pushing up and the oil is pushed past the check ball into the high pressure chamber below the plunger, making the lash adjustment The higher pressure in the very bottom can only escape past the clearance between the body and the plunger if it's all working as designed. Hope that makes sense, and if "someone" allready answered your question, I apologize in advance. I don't read him anymore except for bits and pieces. Doug Edited February 5, 2012 by Quidam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 To keep the gap in spec, you're talking about the gap between the rocker arm and the tip of the valve stem? With a hydro lifter type setup there is very little or no gap. The "gap" would be for a solid lifter type system. The whole point of the hydro lifter system is that it always keeps a small amount of pressure on the lifter pivot - but not enough to overpower the valve spring. This eliminates the need for valve adjustments that were required every 15,000 miles or so on engines like the EA81 but has the drawback that it always robs a tiny amount of power through friction. Improvements in metalurgy, lubricants, and roller rockers have extended the time between valve adjustments to beyond 100,000 miles making the hydraulic lifter self-adjustment system obsolete. That tiny drag on the valve train means lost power and economy and these days that's no longer acceptable due to high fuel prices. Thus all Subaru engines from 97 on are solid lifter arrangements of one form or another. Often what causes them to "tick" is not necesarily a lack of oil flow (well in a sense) but rather "aeration" of the oil - wherein the oil contains tiny air bubbles that were introduced from leaking seals at the pump. These bubbles collect in the lifters and are difficult to expel. Air compresses while oil does not and that means the lifter is "mushy" and making clacking noises when it's pushed by the rocker. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Often what causes them to "tick" is not necesarily a lack of oil flow (well in a sense) but rather "aeration" of the oil - wherein the oil contains tiny air bubbles that were introduced from leaking seals at the pump. These bubbles collect in the lifters and are difficult to expel. Air compresses while oil does not and that means the lifter is "mushy" and making clacking noises when it's pushed by the rocker. Okay, that got basically all bases covered for me. Just to reiterate and make sure I'm understanding the 'ticking' phenomenon properly, the ticking noise occurs when the lifter is not fully 'pumped up', if you will, with oil. When the lifter *is* filled with oil, it is working hydraulically, as it should, and is supplying constant pressure to the rocker arm. When the lifter experiences aeration of the oil within, that pressure is temporarily released, allowing the small piston in the lifter to recess slightly and thus whenever the valve is opened the rocker arm and the piston in the HLA come out of contact with eachother. When the valve returns to it's closed position, the rocker arm then smacks into the HLA piston, making a clacking noise. Thanks for the explanation GD. It's been bugging me for quite awhile now to understand exactly how these things work. It's hard to picture it and imagine the function based on a schematic or drawing. Whenever I get to a point where I'm actually working with these components tangibly, I'm sure I'd have figured it out. Thanks again:headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Good question and nice read ya'll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Being one who's wasn't too careful with checking the oil on a regular basis, I could always tell when the oil was more than a quart low. The oil pressure would drop just enough and the dreaded "tick of death" would start. Time to add a quart of oil; fixed it every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 We had... well my dad had a Mazda mpv that wood tick when the oil needed changed. My blue xt cleared up with some Seafoam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 lash adjuster is a fancy way of saying hydraulic lifterdoes that help? Hey Nipper, We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Back when they called them tappets, mechanical lifters and such, a dude made them hydraulic then called them hydraulic lifters. Lifters, as in shop lifters, weight lifters, in the mechanical sense, "something that lifts". Well, it lifted the push rod, so that's what they called it. And lifters are only on over head valve engines. I remember as a child, some folks still insisted on calling these lifters tappets. Some people are like that, you know? But then, they could have called them hydraulic lash adjusting lifters, but they didn't. Then over head cams came along and they eliminated lifters but still used the hydraulic lash adjusting part of it, so that's what they called them. That's all they do, sit there and don't lift a dam thing. I frequent another Subaru board and the groups I read, I can't recall anybody ever calling them lifters. But it's new gen and mostly builders, mechanics, and customers. What gets me is when someone comes into this group and says he has a Brat and his lifters are noisy, has questions about the oil pump and I spend my time looking, post a pic even... And then he says, oh, I have an EA 82T in it, sorry. YBYAHS:) I get frustrated with it, and certain people here seem to enjoy confusing people who don't know the difference, or something. I say motor and engine too, btw. But they're not lifters and "I" know what people mean, but others don't know and it's just confusion, when it doesn't have to be. Things of this nature have there name for a reason. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 heres how it works or [the problem ] the oil pump has a seal on a rotating shaft that drys up and alows air bubbles to get in to lifters and they can not pump up on air so they tick i have never seen a bad lifter before in like a 1000 ea82s but every oil pump seal i c is toast change the seal noise is gone also the oil pump releff valve is in the top of head plunger with a spring this dumps of the oil preshure across the top of cam theese springs get week so i stretch them just a bit to get better oil preshure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo'J Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 ybyahs......?Doug pm me that if nsfw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) pm me that if nsfw. Hi, I don't understand that post or where that came from. I do know from posting here that my computer has been under attack several times. Upgraded security...after I made the posts in this thread my firewall got shut down, I turned it back on but not before my passwords to sites were screwed up. And there's more, but that crap has been going on since I made another post in another thread some time ago. I'm pretty sure it comes from someone here. And you probably know who I would suspect, or one of there groupies. Doug Edited February 6, 2012 by Quidam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj7291993 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hi, I don't understand that post or where that came from. I do know from posting here that my computer has been under attack several times. Upgraded security...after I made the posts in this thread my firewall got shut down, I turned it back on but not before my passwords to sites were screwed up. And there's more, but that crap has been going on since I made another post in another thread some time ago. I'm pretty sure it comes from someone here. And you probably know who I would suspect, or one of there groupies. Doug I think he is unsure of the meaning of your acronym. He is asking you to pm (private message) it to him if it is Not Safe For Work (nsfw). At least, that's what I gathered from it, I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 You know to add to that real quick, I come here all the time and never have a problem. My system (I build computers for a hobby) is more than secure, and never have I ever had an issue at this board. At my brother's house one day, I jumped on the board on his Dell laptop. All seemed fine, but the next day, his computer had the ever so prominant windows xp security virus. 2012 edition. Something I'd never seen before, and even I wasn't able to get rid of it fully so I just wound up wiping it. Just a little fyi, no matter what system you use, go to CNET and download AVG anti-virus free edition. Get rid of all your other kaspersky and other types of virus protection, and just have avg. I've worked in the field. It is the best. My 2 cents on the matter. Also, back to the initial post, thank you guys for the replies, between all of you, I've got the idea of how this whole system functions down pretty good now. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 And you probably know who I would suspect, or one of there groupies. Doug LOL. You're off your meds pal. You're not worth that much of my time. Conspircy against some washed up, over-50 crackpot with too much time on his hands? I think not. You need to get out a bit more . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 pm me that if nsfw. Hey Yo'J, I looked at it at the time and it just didn't register. YBYAHS, You bet your rump roast he's sorry. But I was distracted at the time changing my passwords to bank, paypal,ebay, so on and so forth. For months now on my primary user something has been able to shut down my primary firewall. The first time it happened before I got it restored, my computer was messed up. I got additional security installed, for a price, but it still happened, just not as often. Edrach in this thread long ago recommended logging on as a secondary user without admin priviliges, and I did that. Every now and then I would get a pop up still that my firewall was turned off. When I'd go check it, it would still be on though. After I posted in this thread on a secondary with no admin priviliges I got that pop up of firewall not turned on. I go and check it, and indeed it was shut down. The consequences of that was that my automatic log in on sites was somehow disabled. To USMB, bank, paypal, ebay, so on and so forth. So I was busy changing passwords. Since I made that last post before this one, I've only gotten the "firewall turned off" pop up 1 time. I don't think it would be all that hard for a "card carrying software engineer" to do these things. It's happened before from this site where I back then had to upgrade security. A secondary user without admin priviliges is no foolproof method of dealing with it either. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hey Yo'J, I looked at it at the time and it just didn't register. YBYAHS, You bet your rump roast he's sorry. But I was distracted at the time changing my passwords to bank, paypal,ebay, so on and so forth. For months now on my primary user something has been able to shut down my primary firewall. The first time it happened before I got it restored, my computer was messed up. I got additional security installed, for a price, but it still happened, just not as often. Edrach in this thread long ago recommended logging on as a secondary user without admin priviliges, and I did that. Every now and then I would get a pop up still that my firewall was turned off. When I'd go check it, it would still be on though. After I posted in this thread on a secondary with no admin priviliges I got that pop up of firewall not turned on. I go and check it, and indeed it was shut down. The consequences of that was that my automatic log in on sites was somehow disabled. To USMB, bank, paypal, ebay, so on and so forth. So I was busy changing passwords. Since I made that last post before this one, I've only gotten the "firewall turned off" pop up 1 time. I don't think it would be all that hard for a "card carrying software engineer" to do these things. It's happened before from this site where I back then had to upgrade security. A secondary user without admin priviliges is no foolproof method of dealing with it either. Doug Seriously man? Are you being serious? Do you really think you are THAT special? You really have no idea what you are talking about, at all, when it comes to this stuff and it clearly shows. If you did you would realize who crazy and stupid you sound. Even a "card carrying software engineer" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) can't pull off hacking a site with ease. It takes time and energy, and really a true loathing of the entity to really want to put that much effort into something like that. And from the sounds of it, you ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL to warrant that treatment. So seriously go take your crackpot "theories" somewhere else, they don't belong on a car forum. And why do you ALWAYS have to bring GD up in stuff? It's getting old man. There was no need to even mention him in this thread, but yet you did. Seriously grow up and let by gones be by gones. I didn't want to say anything but this is seriously getting old and stupid, so seriously do everyone a favor and just not bring up worthless stuff like this if it is not needed? Thanks. You seem like a smart guy, but this crap is seriously making you look foolish and making me want to ignore you so I don't have to read through this type of crap. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Seriously man? Are you being serious? Do you really think you are THAT special? You really have no idea what you are talking about, at all, when it comes to this stuff and it clearly shows. If you did you would realize who crazy and stupid you sound. Even a "card carrying software engineer" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) can't pull off hacking a site with ease. It takes time and energy, and really a true loathing of the entity to really want to put that much effort into something like that. And from the sounds of it, you ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL to warrant that treatment. So seriously go take your crackpot "theories" somewhere else, they don't belong on a car forum. And why do you ALWAYS have to bring GD up in stuff? It's getting old man. There was no need to even mention him in this thread, but yet you did. Seriously grow up and let by gones be by gones. I didn't want to say anything but this is seriously getting old and stupid, so seriously do everyone a favor and just not bring up worthless stuff like this if it is not needed? Thanks. You seem like a smart guy, but this crap is seriously making you look foolish and making me want to ignore you so I don't have to read through this type of crap. Just a thought... FYI, since I made this last post, my firewall got shut off 4 times. Do what you want, I'm telling it like it is. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 FYI, since I made this last post, my firewall got shut off 4 times. Do what you want, I'm telling it like it is. Doug This is a car forum right? Remind me again why we are talking about firewalls and getting hacked? Last time I checked firewalls and hacking and nothing to do with "lifters". Nobody cares that you can't figure out your computer or if your damn firewall keeps turning off. And no one cares if you don't like GD, so why do we just not mention those topics again and keep those thoughts to yourself, or use PM's, that is what they are there for. Sound good? Nobody really cares about your "issues", seriously. If you need help with being "hacked", post it in the off topic section. And if you were really concerned about being hacked from visiting this site, talk to ShawnW, he should be able to tell if that site has been "hacked", and if your account as been compromised due to the so called hacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It would be best if you ignore me, go ahead do it. I'm done with this thread, and you. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eulogious Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It would be best if you ignore me, go ahead do it. I'm done with this thread, and you. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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