Mikevan10 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I replaced the clutch in my wife's 1997 2.2 Legacy Wagon a couple of months ago. I replaced it because the release bearing had failed and in so doing put a deep groove in the transmission input shaft "snout". Luckily, the clutch kit (aftermarket) that I bought came with the snout repair sleeve and the associated larger i.d. release bearing. Well, the clutch has now developed a tendencey to judder when starting from a stop in first gear. I say "developed" because I don't remember it happening right after I did the clutch job and it seems, from listening to my wife, to be getting worse, although it does not judder every time she starts from a stop. Now, while I am not crazy about many of my wife's driving techniques, she does know how to drive a manual and never has had clutch judder issues in the past couple of decades of Subaru driving. What may cause this? I believe I have heard of oil on the clutch lining causing judder, but the old clutch did not judder and I did not notice any significant amount of oil/grime in the clutch/flywheel area when I did the clutch job. I was not totally impressed with the fit of the new release bearing on the repair sleeve. It seemed a little looser than I would have like it. Has there been any history of probelems in this area? Thanks for any and all comments! Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What brand clutch did you use. Did you replace the throw out bearing clips? What condition is the hyd fluid in How many miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 And did you look closely at the clutch fork - although this isn't the problem that usually tips the hand for the clutch fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxgap Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Mine had the same problem, turned out it was the springs in the pressure plate went bad and the clutch was only about 1 year old. I had Weddes Auto Repair located just north of Bath replace the clutch again with a clutch kit I got from Keystone Auto Parts. For the life of me I can't remember the brand but is a very popular brand used by most of the people here on the forum. Senior moment ..... The company makes the clutches for most of the Japenese cars out on the market today. Best thing I ever did for the car. Cost for the entire job including the new kit was about $450.00 Weddes also has a ton of used parts and sells used Soobs on their lot. Craig will take good care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks for the comments fellows! I don't remember rhe name of the clutch manufacturer but I have the box at home and I will check tonight and report back. Yes, I replaced the release bearing clips. This is a cable operated clutch. No hydraulic fluid involved. There are about 240,000 miles on the car. There are probably about 2,000 miles on the new clutch. I did not examine the clutch fork carefully. Why? That sounds like a pretty good price for a clutch replacement, Fox.. I guess they only hit you about $300.00 for labor which I would guess is not bad. I have dealt with Wedde's for about 15 or 20 years now. Not so much anymore since they are pretty much out of the used parts business. It was much better before Craig took over. Don Wedde gave me some really fair deals on parts back in the day. I will also mention that I did not get the flywheel resurfaced when I replaced the clutch. There was no grooving on it at all. In fact, the clutch I replaced only had like 30,000 miles on it and the driven plate (aka clutch disc) had plenty of lining material left on it. Like I said, I did the job only because the release bearing had failed. Anyway, I needed to get the job done over the weekend so I did not get the flywheel machined. I just hit it with scotchbrite discs on a drill which removed any glaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 OK, the answer to the remaining question, "What brand clutch", is it is made by Autopart International. Anyone have any suggestions/comments about my clutch judder? Thank you. Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) HOw odd, I cant find anything good or bad on the net, however, one retailer calls them "Auto parts international branded parts" and latercall out brand name suppliers by name In addition to our Autopart International branded products we are proud to distribute quality products from our suppliers, including: Bosch, KYB, Walker, Timken, ... Autopart International is a wholesale distributor of replacement automotive parts. In addition to selling through a network of distributors, Autopart owns 150 wholesale outlets in locations across North America. From their website In addition to our Autopart International branded products we are proud to distribute quality products from our suppliers, including: Bosch, KYB, Walker, Timken, NGK, Mann and Hummel, Yec, Kotek, Denso, Nationwide, Dayco, Prenco and Stant, just to name a few. All of our products are available online through our open web ordering system. We also offer a full line of tools and equipment with financing options available. They don't manufacture, they are a reseller. "international branded products". For now on, when it is a part that is critical or buried in the bowels of the car, go with a brand name or known name. The extra cost is worth every penny. Are there any part numbers writing or names on the parts themselves stamped. Edited February 8, 2012 by nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Junk clutch I would bet. Exedy clutch (Amazon has the best prices), resurface flywheel, sand the snout with 220 grit to soften the wear marks, and grease the crap out of it. Same with the fork pivot, etc. I never have juddering problems with my clutch installs. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 In addition to our Autopart International branded products we are proud to distribute quality products from our suppliers hehe from writing manuals and techy stuff, this is NOT how to write that line, makes your product sound like junk.... oh wait... maybe the point. "Other quality products" should be in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Thank you GD and Nipper. If/when I haul it back apart, what brand clutch parts do you recommend? Should I bite the bullet and buy them from a Subaru dealer? GD, What do you mean by "Exedy". I don't know this term. Also, are you suggesting to buy a cutch from Amazon.com? The book and record store? If so, do they offer several different manufacturers? Sanding the snout will not do the job. The previous release bearing had disintegrated and in the process of failing had worn about a 1/4" wide x 3/16" deep groove into the o.d. of the snout. A circumferential groove, if you will. Not just some scratches from the release bearing sliding back and forth. That was why I was quite happy to see, quite unexpectedly, that the Autopart International clutch kit came with the snout repair sleeve and "matching" release bearing. I have replaced probably 4 or 5 Subaru clutches over the years and this is the first time I experienced judder issues. So, is the consensus that the Autopart International clutch is junk? I am thinking this may be correct, and I am very suspicious of the repair sleeve to release bearing fit. Trouble is, if I mail order replacements I won't be able to check that fit before I pay my money... It has also crossed my mind that my 2" Scotchbrite pad-on-a-drill deglazing method left a less than optimum (read that TOO grippy) flywheel surface finish. Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Exedy is the brand that is most popular on the boards (not just subaru) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Exedy is THE clutch manufacturer that Subaru uses. All OEM clutches are stamped "Daikin" which is a subsidiary of Exedy. The Exedy kits are factory quality because they ARE factory. Amazon sells almost everything under the sun. They have the best prices on Exedy clutches and free shipping. I cannot beat their price anywhere online or otherwise. Looks up the clutch part number on Exedy's web site and use that at Amazon to find the kit you need. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 OK. Thanks very much for the clarifications and the advise! But what about the damaged snout? Does Exedy offer a repair sleeve/modified release bearing kit? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 OK. Thanks very much for the clarifications and the advise! But what about the damaged snout? Does Exedy offer a repair sleeve/modified release bearing kit? Mike Didn't you already install one? Typically when you install a snout repair kit it's good for the life of the car - since the new snout surface is not aluminium anymore.... only reason you would have to replace that is if you need to split the transmission case. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Whwn you install the snout repair sleeve, you increase the outside diameter of the snout by twice the wall thickness of the repair sleeve. This is not a big increase in diameter but I assumed that a standard release bearing would not fit on the repair sleeve. Is that not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Whwn you install the snout repair sleeve, you increase the outside diameter of the snout by twice the wall thickness of the repair sleeve. This is not a big increase in diameter but I assumed that a standard release bearing would not fit on the repair sleeve. Is that not correct? True - but if you just installed a repair sleeve and TOB then why not just continue to use both? The juddering will not have damaged the TOB. If it's still new then I'm not seeing why you would replace it. Sell the one from the Exedy kit to a board member for $20 shipped. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Because I was suspecting that the juddering was caused by excessive (to me) clearance between the Autopart International release bearing and the snout repair sleeve. Or maybe some other shortcoming of the Autopart International release bearing. So you would suspect the Autopart International clutch cover and/or driven plate to be the culprit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 l am going to move ahead and order an Exedy clutch kit as was recommended above. The reason for doing this is that I am hoping that the cause of the judder is that the recently installed clutch kit was of poor design and/or manufacture. This seems like a stretch but I don't have any better ideas. I will also have the flywheel resurfaced although, as I mentioned above, it was in what seemed to be perfectly serviceable condition when I did the most recent clutch job. As I mentioned before, the clutch kit that I put in included a transmission "snout" (aka quill) repair sleeve and the release bearing had a larger inside diameter to suit. This was a lucky break as it turned out that the snout had been badly gouged by the failed release bearing. I have done a little research and I have read comments (not on this forum) that "most clutch kits come with snout repair sleeves". Can anyone here agree or disagree with that? Also, it looks like the highly recommended Exedy kits do NOT come with the snout repair sleeve. Any comment about that? Finally, the only snout repair kits (only) that I have come up with in a Google search are the ones offered by Tranquil (sp?) and they have a price of about $150.00 which is in the range of an entire clutch kit. Any comments about this? Thanks for reading the long post. And if anyone has any other thoughts on my clutch judder issue I'd really be grateful to hear them! Thanks again, Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I did not see any mention of having the flywheel resurfaced. Could that be the problem? A glazed/worn flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Berb, Yeah, as I said in an ealier post: "I will also mention that I did not get the flywheel resurfaced when I replaced the clutch. There was no grooving on it at all. In fact, the clutch I replaced only had like 30,000 miles on it and the driven plate (aka clutch disc) had plenty of lining material left on it. Like I said, I did the job only because the release bearing had failed. Anyway, I needed to get the job done over the weekend so I did not get the flywheel machined. I just hit it with scotchbrite discs on a drill which removed any glaze." The flywheel surface looked geat. And there was no judder prior to doing the clutch job - remember, I did the clutch job only because the release bearing had failed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Oh I see now. It was late. As long as the plate was flat I guess it's ok, but, also, maybe different friction disc compounds cause different wear patterns. Maybe slip the clutch a bit to let it wear in. of course when you do that it will heat up and change the grab, so it may take time. Just guessing. I've lived with a bad grabby clutch for a long time before, just adjusted my driving style to deal with it and try not to get too irritated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 If it were my car I probably would do just that - live with it. But it is wifey's car and she is not willing to do so (at least not quietly). This clutch package has a couple or three thousand miles on it by now so I really doubt the operation will get any better on its own. Does anyone have any other responses to my first post from yesterday or any other comments or suggestions? Thanks again, Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Apperance is meaningless on the flywheel. Have it surfaced. If you already repaired the quill then it should be fine. Continue to use the T/O and quill repair that are currently in the car. Get the Exedy clutch kit and replace the pilot, disc, and plate. Have the flywheel surfaced and insure the T/O slides smoothly. Some play between the quill and T/O is ok. That will not cause the juddering. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 What GD said. Clutch judder can come from the flywheel, as it really doesnt take much to make it judder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Thank you guys. I will order the Exedy clutch and prepare for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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