majesticsubaru Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I have a 1987 Subaru GL (1800cc) and was wondering if anyone knows what the spark voltage should be. I suspect it to be low even though I have visible spark. I used one of those spark voltage testers and it will jump the gap at the 10-15 kV mark. Is this enough to run the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Welcome! Does your subie have the EA81 or EA82 engine? As far as I Remember, the ignition coil on EA82's will blow around 22 Kv to 25 Kv, So 15 Kv seems to be Low... ... I Changed the Coil on my BumbleBeast Subaru years ago, for an Accel SuperStock which blows 45 Kv. Did you asked it because your Subie is experiencing ingintion problems? Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majesticsubaru Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm not sure which engine (EA-81 or EA-82) it has and I'm not sure how to tell. It has about 25kV directly off of the coil, but only about 10-15kV to the spark plugs. I've been troubleshooting this thing for quite a while and am trying to rule everything out. The plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil are fairly new, so I'm reluctant to just start replacing all the ignition components. The whole story is a long and annoying one so I'll try to outline anything that I think might be relevant. Currently it will not start at all (no firing at all) even with starter fluid. I just had the carburetor rebuilt and I've checked for adequate fuel flow at the carb. I've verified the position and condition of the timing belts. I've checked the rotor rotation. I've checked for blockage in the exhaust. I've checked for visible spark on all plugs and they do spark, I'm just not sure if it's possible for them to have too weak of a spark or something. If there's anything else I should check for, I'd be happy to have more ideas. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm not sure which engine (EA-81 or EA-82) it has and I'm not sure how to tell. ... ... I've verified the position and condition of the timing belts ... Timing Belts = EA82. Maybe the Sparkplug Wires are Worn and doesn't transmit all the Power. Have you Checked those Wires, are they Old? Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Also, if you Post here More details about the Issues with your Subie and Photos, it will be Easier to Help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi, When was the last time you heard the motor run? With the plug wires being "fairly" new and the readings you're seeing, those are high resistance wires, sounds like. It's possible to buy new wires and have them near the upper Subaru recommended limits for resistance, I've measured a few sets. Being the longest, #1 then #3 would have the most. So yea, when did it last run, and what happened. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am not certain what kind of a tester you are using. Can you describe it, or tell us the make/model? Is it a fixed gap? The voltage at the gap will only be high enough to make it jump. If it only takes 20 kV to jump, that is all you will see. In other circumstances, like a bigger gap or other change in conditions, the same coil may produce a lot more voltage. What counts is if it has enough capacity to make the spark jump at the spark plug inside the engine when it is running under all conditions. The best way to test this is with one of those oscilloscope type engine analyzers, that will actually measure the voltage at the plug while running. Without that device, all you can say is if the engine isn't missing, runs well, gets reasonable gas mileage, passes smog for HC, then it is probably OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I doubt the trouble is due to the ignition voltage. Since the engine won't even start using starter fluid then either the valve timing is off or the ignition timing is not correct. If the compression is good then the valve timing should be ok. Make sure the plugwires are going to the correct position on the distributor cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majesticsubaru Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 The car is a 1987 Subaru GL and I was using one of those adjustable gap testers. I'm about 99.9% sure that the valve timing is correct and I had never previously messed with the distributor position and I have tried moving it in all the different positions. I've quadruple checked where the plug wires are going to and from and have even switched them around to other positions just for the heck of it and it still will not fire at all. I'll probably get new plugs, wires cap and rotor just to be sure but I was just wondering if anyone had other ideas about what it could be. Here's the long annoying story just in case anyone's interested. I purchased the car about 2.5 years ago and it ran well. It was a little "cold blooded" but I figured that was normal. It also had a new alternator that the previous owner had just put in. At some point in the first year the choke stopped working properly. It first would stick on and not switch down to a lower rpm when it was warming up, then it just stopped working altogether. Shortly thereafter it slowly started to decrease in power and started to take longer to warm up. I had to make sure it was warm to easily go up hills from a stop without really revving it up. Then about a year and a half ago one day the dash lights flickered on partially and continued to do so while the car was running. After that I replaced the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and fuel filters with no noticeable improvement in performance. Then I checked the coil and it wasn't within the specs so I replaced it. Still no change. This whole time the car is slowly getting worse and worse with the symptoms previously mentioned. Somewhere in there a timing belt broke and I replaced it and this had no effect after it was fixed. So about 6-8 months ago it really started to run poorly and started to backfire occasionally. It was hard to start and you had to stay and feather the gas to warm it up before you could drive because the idle wasn't right. I didn't have time to do anything to it and it did run so I neglected it for a few months until finally it wasn't really drivable due to the lack of power. I decided to just check the alternator and sure enough it was bad and it was also the wrong one for the car. After replacing that, the dash light issue went away but the performance was still just as bad. I couple weeks went by and I was out tinkering again and it wouldn't start at all, so I decided to have the carburetor rebuilt. After putting it back in it still won't start at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Check the ECU for code errors. Also check the compression to make sure that is ok. If those things are good and you are sure the firing order is correct then you may want to try replacing the ignitor to see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ...Shortly thereafter it slowly started to decrease in power and started to take longer to warm up. I had to make sure it was warm to easily go up hills from a stop without really revving it up. ... This whole time the car is slowly getting worse and worse with the symptoms previously mentioned... After Reading that Story, Let me tell you that it is somehow Familiar, because I've Fixed a couple of EA82's (Beside Mine's) with Same Symptoms. In my Li'l caribbean country, Unleaded Gasoline were available up to 1994, so its First Nine years, my EA82 Subie ran with Leaded Gasoline, which Clogged the Cathalytic Converters, the one on the "Y" Pipe and the one on the Middle of the Exhaust Pipes. So, those Subies blowed a Exhaust smoke that had certain rare odor and irritates the Eyes... The Symptoms you describe, leads me to Think about Two Posibilities: Clogged Exhaust. Dying Carburetor. I Already readed this: ... I decided to have the carburetor rebuilt. After putting it back in it still won't start at all. Let me Tell you that Those Hitachi carburetors becomes a True Nightmare when they are Old... in example, whe my EA82's carburetor failed, I went throught Three Rebuild Kits on Three Different times: The First one I Tried myself with No Luck, the Second time I took the Carb to a "Professional" on a Modest Garage and Still No Luck; the Third Time I Took the Carb to a more Expensive Subaru Garage and they failed too... Then that people Started to point things such like the timing or the ignition to be the culprit... I swapped a Weber Carb years ago and all that problems went away. So, I believe that the culprit on your subie is a mix of Clogged Exhaust and Dying Carb... I Kindly suggest you to Check the Exhaust and then you can try with other Carburetor. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 "So, I believe that the culprit on your subie is a mix of Clogged Exhaust and Dying Carb... " Well, that exhaust would be worth checking. However, he did say it wouldn't even start with starting fluid. If he heald the throttle open, poured some gas down it, it should at least fire. How many miles on the car that won't start? JesZek, did your Hitachi have 300,000 miles on it? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) On the Time I Started to have issues on my EA82's Hitachi Carb, it was somewhere around 220,000 of Rude Driving, 60% offroad on our Hard Honduran Roads; but there was another fact that ruined my Subie's original Carb then: Someone poured some Mothballs on an almost empty Gas tank... The other two Subarus that I've fixed with worn hitachi carburetors, where over or al least around 300,000 Miles, one of Those ran with a Brand New Hitachi Carburetor for a Nissan Sentra (Same Base Measurements but it has a "Power Valve" inside); the other one went thru many Carb rebuilds (Just like me) untill I took that carb out and slapped there a used 32/36 Weber. Sorry for Hijack the Thread... but I Still believe that the Carb on that Subie isn't working Properly. Kind Regards. Edited February 8, 2012 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) On the Time I Started to have issues on my EA82's Hitachi Carb, it was somewhere around 220,000 of Rude Driving, 60% offroad on our Hard Honduran Roads; but there was another fact that ruined my Subie's original Carb then: Someone poured some Mothballs on an almost empty Gas tank... The other two Subarus that I've fixed with worn hitachi carburetors, where over or al least around 300,000 Miles, one of Those ran with a Brand New Hitachi Carburetor for a Nissan Sentra (Same Base Measurements but it has a "Power Valve" inside; the other one went thru many Carb rebuilds (Just like me) untill I took that carb out and slapped there a used 32/36 Weber. Sorry for Hijack the Thread... but I Still believe that the Carb on that Subie isn't working Properly. Kind Regards. Hi, I don't see it as a hijack at all. That carb could very well be a problem with being worn, not properly rebuilt, so on and so forth. But even if the OP took the carb off, poured fuel down the manifold, (I'm not suggesting the OP do this as you take fire risks, etc.) and cranked it, it still should fire and try to start. Just thinking we don't even know if the carb is feedback with all that goes with that, or just a regular type carb with some emission stuff on it. So we need that info too. Doug Edited February 8, 2012 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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