98 Outback Wagon Torque Bind... tires?

[lucasb]

Hello,

 

I'm a new car owner, especially new to understanding how a car works, hence repairs.

 

I have a 1998 Ouback with 189,000 miles on it. I bought it used for 2,400 with 184,000.

 

I realized a few weeks ago my front passenger tire was wearing on the outside way faster than any other. I went in and got my car aligned. I was told they aligned my car, and confirmed my suspicion my rotors are warped. I got the alignment, but I think I can do the rotors myself, although I haven't yet. And have drove about 4 thousand miles on the warped rotors. My front passenger tire is visibly more worn than the others.

 

After the alignment I took a 200 mile drive. I can't remember exactly the first time I saw the flashing AT oil temp light, but it was either right before, or after this drive. I get the 16 flashes on start up.

 

I might have been noticing a small amount of torque bind prior, but nothing like I can recently.

 

I'm a student graduating in a few months. I have a few grand left in my bank account.

 

So here are my questions:

 

How much is my worn tire be affecting this problem? and how much more damage can it be doing?

 

I tried the secret handshake, but just can't get the light to flashback at me.

 

Tomorrow I'll try some figure 8's with my FWD fuse enabled and see if there is a difference. Should I also drain my ATF fluid and replace it? It looks nice and red from the dipstick, but I don't have prior experience with knowing if ATF fluid is still good. Should I just see a dealer and see if they'll tell me the code without charge?

 

Also, I have to make that 200 mile drive again on Tuesday. How concerned should I be driving it? I can make the drive and see a mechanic, or put the drive off until Wednesday, see a mechanic here on Monday hoping to get it fixed b/f the drive.

 

I really appreciate the help this forum provides! Thank you!

Edited February 12, 2012 by lucasb

[idosubaru]

How much is my worn tire be affecting this problem? and how much more damage can it be doing?

that's sort of subjective. it can be bad, it can mean nothing. keep the tires close to the same diameter and it won't matter. so if one tire is really warn, then just inflate that one really high - 35-40 psi depending what your others are....etc.

 

tire shops around here install two new tires on one front and one rear (opposite side of the front though). they claim the way the subaru AWD works this is "acceptable". so if you were really concerned i suppose you could look into this option and get some more details - i'm not sure if it matters which side up front or it doesn't matter so long as the rear is on the opposite? i don't do that.

 

Should I also drain my ATF fluid and replace it?

yes, that's the first step.

 

Should I just see a dealer and see if they'll tell me the code without charge?!

i doubt it, sounds like a waste of time to me unless that particular dealer is exceptional or you know someone there, etc. besides, you have torque bind so i'd just start there and fix the torque bind first.

 

Also, I have to make that 200 mile drive again on Tuesday. How concerned should I be driving it? I can make the drive and see a mechanic, or put the drive off until Wednesday, see a mechanic here on Monday hoping to get it fixed b/f the drive.

 

I really appreciate the help this forum provides! Thank you!

put the FWD fuse and just run it in FWD. of course note if the symptoms persist because FWD cures one cause of torque bind but not the other.

 

if that doesn't work it's still not a huge deal, just make sure your tire tread depth is as close as possible like i mentioned above.

 

rotors are really easy to do yourself, not hard at all. of course there are important things to know but once the wheel is off it's only 3 or 4 bolts to remove the rotors. the set screws are likely not still there but if they are they usually require an impact screw driver (the kind you hit with a hammer) or drilling them out. you don't need to reinstall them, indeed some rotors don't even come with the holes for them. they're only for manufacturing process.

 

shop across from my office turns rotors for $12 or $15 each, a fine option sometimes. they will of course check thickness first.

[lucasb]

Gary,

 

Thank you for your detailed response. Some follow ups:

 

So tomorrow I'll change the ATF, and then I'll do another before leaving on Tuesday. My understanding is i'll only change 3-4 quarts of ~12 by emptying the tray, so I'll do a few before heading out on Tuesday.

 

I'll also do what I can with the tire pressure. My only follow up question with the worn tire is:

 

You don't think the worn tire is playing into the bind/flashing AT Oil Temp flashing light do you?

 

So you said a mechanic is a waste of time and I should fix the torque bind first. I'm a little confused because I imagined fixing whatever electronic issue I am having with my transmission would fix the torque bind? For instance, it seems like most likely replacing my Duty C solenoid would fix the whole thing? I don't want to start researching how to do this until I know what the issue is, hence I want a read back from a diagnosis. Does that make sense?

 

Really appreciate any feedback!

[idosubaru]

Gary,

 

Thank you for your detailed response. Some follow ups:

 

So tomorrow I'll change the ATF, and then I'll do another before leaving on Tuesday. My understanding is i'll only change 3-4 quarts of ~12 by emptying the tray, so I'll do a few before heading out on Tuesday.

well done, that's exactly how you do it.

 

You don't think the worn tire is playing into the bind/flashing AT Oil Temp flashing light do you?!

highly unlikely but i won't say it's impossible since i've seen something very similar happen one time.

 

So you said a mechanic is a waste of time and I should fix the torque bind first.

no, i suggested this sounds like a waste of time:

Should I just see a dealer and see if they'll tell me the code without charge?!

i doubt they won't charge you and you can probably narrow it down yourself...to a point.

 

so i'm with you now - yes it's a good idea to verify the Duty C is causing this.

 

if you put the FWD fuse in and it doesn't go away then your Duty C is likely the culprit. given other indications the Duty C is failing. reading the code is being very by the book - but i can't say with 100% certainty it can't be something else so there's nothing wrong with that. i'd bet a lot of money if you're the gambling type! (though i am not)

 

so yeah - making sure is a good idea. i just doubt they'll read the codes for free unless you tell them you'll have the work done there. and i think there's a 99% chance it's the duty C. so if the free part and time/cost is worth verifying that last 1% then by all means that's definitely the best way to proceed.

[lucasb]

Such a great response! Thank you so much! I guess I'll have have to wait and see what the FWD and ATF does. Thank you!

[lmdew]

Try the fuse, if the FWD light does not come on, you have confirmed it's an electrical fault with the C-Duty.

 

Many post on doing this with some great pictures.

[MilesFox]

The uneven tire wear can be indicative of a failing wheel bearing.

[lucasb]

Hello,

 

I put the fuse into the FWD and I get the light and torque bind goes away.

 

I'm googling like crazy now to figure out the next step, but I'm always welcome to feedback here Sorry I know the issue has been discussed 100 times. I'll report back with what I've learned in the next few hours one way or the other.

[lucasb]

I drained the ATF pan and replaced with some high mileage Dexron stuff that a local auto store recommended. However, I only got to do one change before making the 200 mile drive.

 

The drive felt great. I did some figure 8s before leaving and didn't feel any binding. However, when I started my car after the drive I got the 16 flashes from the ATF Oil Temp light, and I have torque bind again.

 

I have to make the 200 mile drive again, unfortunately my FWD fuse isn't doing the trick anymore, so I'll just have to toughen it out. Once I make that drive I'm going to do a few more pan draining.

 

Even though the ATF on my dipstick looked really clean, when it came out of the pan it was pretty gross. So I'm just really hoping I need to change it a few more times.

 

Always open to suggestions. Thank you!

[Fairtax4me]

Probably means the Duty C solenoid is shot, but it could also mean the transfer clutches have chewed notches into the drum and are getting jammed.

Since you have mismatched tires (at least one severely worn) I'd bet on the clutch drum being damaged.

[littlefish]

talk to a good subaru shop/dealer about replacing a bushing in the transmission - i was told that up to '98 this was one cause of torque bind - $800 repair. duty c fuse always helped mine. have since traded in for legacy 5 peed. keep the fuse in until you have a plan for fixing it.

[Markus56]

read this post here:

 

http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm

 

then go to your favorite parts store and get a can of trans-x.

what's going on is you have an internal leak in your output shaft housing. this stuff will seal it up. It will also clean up some of the gunk built up inside the tranny.

but you should do that after you replace the pan filter and fluid.

 

I did the trans-x last friday after having the same problem as OP. Now it's all fixed

Edited February 27, 2012 by Markus56

[lucasb]

So an update on my issue:

 

I've drained and refilled my tranny fluid 5 times, used the trans-x, and I still have torque bind. At this point I'm ready to get it looked at by a shop, but I have noticed a few things and I am hoping maybe someone here can pin the source of my problem. Hopefully its just A problem, and not many. Here goes:

 

When I start my car for the first time of the day, everything is great. I don't even have torque bind. However, after driving for a little the torque bind comes back. When I first start the car my RPMs are normal, but when I go into reverse to back out of my drive way they drop to just above 1,000. As I drive my car my RPMs will run extremely low when I'm not accelerating. Like 300 low. It looks like this say, at a stop light. I also get a whining when I have to accelerate up a big hill.

 

arg....

 

Like I said I'm going to take it in, but if this extra information means anything to anyone I'd love to hear. Thanks.

[subaruplatt]

I can do the rotors myself, although I haven't yet. And have drove about 4 thousand miles on the warped rotors.

 

When you do the rotors, also do a quick check that the hub is not warped.

Who knows the previous owner may have curbed the car.

 

Bent hubs will vastly decrease rotor life.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_parts/wheel_hub_assembly/subaru.html

Edited March 22, 2012 by subaruplatt

[lucasb]

Doing it tomorrow. Will check the hubs. Thank you!