mickytrus Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Hi About to throw on my heads? Does any one use locktite? And is this good preventative? My bolts looked like something Was leaking. By them Thanks micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 EA82? use nothing, install the bolts clean and simply lubricated with a very small amount of oil on the threads. clean the bolts, clean the bolts threads, and ideally the hole threads if you can. run a bolt in and out of each hole as many times as you can tolerate to clean them out. if you're not using Fel Pro headgaskets don't forget EA82's require a retorque procedure on the headbolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Sorry it was rather late last night It is an ea82 What is the retorque procedure? I am using ishino gaskets , parts Store said they were oem. Do I install heads and then Go bake a cake? If there is a link You can offer to an old thread. I Would appreciate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 only clean oil. if the threads looked like they leaked something, this is normal. oil moves up threads. using oil on the threads promotes proper, even torque values when tightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 So follow torque sequence,,,,,, Torque in three steps to specified tightness....... that is it.... Does anybody "let stand till the bread rises?":headbang: I can get the heads on and then work on the water pump and the fuel pump.... that should be good for a couple of hours and then recheck final tightness following the torque sequence.... Is that long enough to let the heads sit.... Is there any relevance to my madness? Micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hey Mickey, Here's my advise, O2, which is worth about .06 in copper pennies:) Torque the heads on. Wait 24 hours. Back them all off, and retorque. If you can do that you'll have it within a few percentage points of a torque the heads, run it, then retorque after the hot run. So, torque them on. Let sit 24 hrs. Retorque. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The retorque is supposed to happen after you have driven the car a bit. It's a pain in the butt since this requires doing and undoing the cam towers twice, but it beats the heck out of doing the head gaskets twice, let me tell you. Some suggest just overtorquing slightly, and it's worked for me but I've 1--been gentle on it, and 2--willing to do it again if I have to. There's no gaurantee this method will work (could even damage things if you go over by too much). And you DO have to follow the three step sequence, that part is not optional unless you want to gaurantee doing a lot of work two weekends in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 you could go around a 4th time towards 50 lb ft, but i would not go so far as to stretch the threads in the block. the idea of oil on the thread is that the bolt goes in smoothly, and the bolt gets more CLAMPING FORCE per the amount of torque it takes to turn the bolt. IF t he threads were tight, the torque it takes to turn the bolt relults in less clamping force. If you have a wire wheel, brush off the shank and thhe threads of the bolts and clean them up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) The retorque is supposed to happen after you have driven the car a bit. It's a pain in the butt since this requires doing and undoing the cam towers twice, but it beats the heck out of doing the head gaskets twice, let me tell you. Some suggest just overtorquing slightly, and it's worked for me but I've 1--been gentle on it, and 2--willing to do it again if I have to. There's no gaurantee this method will work (could even damage things if you go over by too much). And you DO have to follow the three step sequence, that part is not optional unless you want to gaurantee doing a lot of work two weekends in a row. Tycho posted this some time ago: "Years ago on the ENDYN forums (or it could have been SpeedTalk) there was a FelPro engineer talking about the PermaTorque gaskets. He noted that while they do not require a re-torque, doing an overnight cold re-torque (much easier than a hot one) will increase gasket compression from 90% to over 95%. Definitely worth the small amount of extra effort, and still way easier than a hot re-torque." And I believe that "from over 90% to over 95%" translates actually into "from over 90% to 99 or 100%" Do not overtorque your head bolts because if you do you're distorting the cylinder bores. I can prove it. What do you think an engine rebuilder/remanufacturer does when they send an EA 82 out the door with NO instructions to retorque the headgaskets? Or a new longblock from Subaru? I'd lay money on them torquing, wait, torquing, and possibly even do it again. That will get you there no hot retorque needed. Just give it time. With Genuine Subaru gaskets, close as I can tell they compress slightly less than .001 on the first torque. Even when I use the Permatorque, I torque, wait 24 hours, and do it again. They have a teflon coating on them and it's an attractave sales pitch, and it does indeed help and you may never have a problem. But if you cold retorque, The job may very well last longer. If you don't care, well, then there is that. Tear it up. I'm doing an EA 82T right now with torque and wait, then again torque and wait. The third time I'm unbolting the heads, spraying the gaskets with copper coat, then the final torque. I don't anticipate any headgasket problems even with high boost. If you torque and wait 24 hours, then retorque with any gasket out there made for these motors, I don't believe the average Subaru will ever have any problem with those gaskets. And for sure, as has been said, clean the bolt threads and the threads in the block untill they're spotless. Lightly oil and go at it. Or not. Your call, your motor. Doug Edited February 14, 2012 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I like the cold re-torque idea. I will put some research into that next time. I do clean the bolts, and do everything else mentioned. So far it has held, but I know it could fail. The factory cold re-torque actually makes sense, I hadn't thought of it that way before. As for how much over...a handful of pounds is the most I've ever done. Not keen on stripping the threads deep inside the block. I don't mind spinning a wrench, but retapping those holes? No thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So far it has held, but I know it could fail. if you did everything properly and the heads/block were good it'll be fine. Quite a few of us have done countless headgaskets, GD comes to mind, and have never had a repeat failure that we know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 My methods never failed me, but i once serviced an ea82 with bad HG's. I found the gaskets were spashed and distorted on the fire ring from over/uneven torquing. This was on the worst ea82 i had ever seen with backwards heads and parts missing form the oil pump and a rod knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 before you put them on take the 3 center head bolts and dich them use the head studs from ea81 can only use them on 3 center bolts but they are the problem ones we do this mod on all ea82s it gives you about 1\2 of thread more in block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 before you put them on take the 3 center head bolts and dich them use the head studs from ea81 can only use them on 3 center bolts but they are the problem ones we do this mod on all ea82s it gives you about 1\2 of thread more in block Hey, Do you have a source for new/used studs you'd like to share? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks for all the input on this. Yeah, I torqued and did the 24hr check...... I may consider a hot retorque... How long does one wait...... for a hot retorque? 50 miles 300 miles....? I am not putting the timing belt covers back on... so...... that will alleviate some aggravation... It is just that I sealed the cam boxes... so I will have to go through the troubles of recleaning and resealing...... but, if it can improve a good seal... and provide longevity to the seal.... I would say it is worth it.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks for all the input on this.Yeah, I torqued and did the 24hr check...... I may consider a hot retorque... How long does one wait...... for a hot retorque? 50 miles 300 miles....? I am not putting the timing belt covers back on... so...... that will alleviate some aggravation... It is just that I sealed the cam boxes... so I will have to go through the troubles of recleaning and resealing...... but, if it can improve a good seal... and provide longevity to the seal.... I would say it is worth it.......... It's one heat cycle, then the retorque. 1) Warm up engine. 2) After engine has cooled down, remove right and left valve rocker covers. 3) Loosen intake manifold mounting bolts next to cylinders No. 1 and No.3 by 60*. Do not loosen the manifold mounting bolts next to cylinders No. 2 and No. 4. Do not loosen the mounting bolts more than 90*, or water may leak. 4) Loosen bolt at position 1 in figure, and apply oil to the thread. (This means loosen the #1 bolt in torque sequence, then apply oil with a squirt can to the top of the bolt/washer area, goal is to make sure the washer/bolt has oil under it) Repeat "loosen and tighten" operation four to five times within the 60* range for a better fit, then tighten bolt to the specified torque. 5) Similarly, retighten each bolt in sequence from 2 to 9 as shown in figure. Finally,tighten bolt 1 to the specified torque without loosening. 6) After tightening right and left cylinder head bolts, tighten mounting bolts of intake manifolds. It's not hard or as complicated as it may sound written down. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickytrus Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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