Moosen Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Could you Determine How much Advanced / Retarded is your engine's ignition Timing Right Now? ... I'm Almost Sure that it needs to be Advanced a Little More. Kanurys explained a Simple Procedure to do it by the Test Mode (Without a Light Gun) and that simple procedure could Work Fine, I used to do that also. Good Luck! Kind Regards. ooooh it very well could be the timing. i backed it off quite a bit. is there a way to tell exactly how many degrees i am at? also my disty cap attaches with two clips as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 ... is there a way to tell exactly how many degrees i am at? ... Without a Light Gun? ... I Believe Not... or it should be a Non-Easy thing to do. I Kindly Suggest you to Move the Disty a Little more to the Right to Advance it and go Test Drive the Subie, then a Little More and do another Test and So on; Moving it Right or Left untill you find the Better place for it. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosen Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Without a Light Gun? ... I Believe Not... or it should be a Non-Easy thing to do. I Kindly Suggest you to Move the Disty a Little more to the Right to Advance it and go Test Drive the Subie, then a Little More and do another Test and So on; Moving it Right or Left untill you find the Better place for it. Good Luck! On my way right now!!!! EDIT- ahahaha forgot i am jb welding my cat and muffler right now, fixing holes.... Edited April 16, 2012 by Moosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosen Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 alright sweet, my boss is loaning me his timing light. So on that note, which spark plug is my number 1? Where are the marks that I am looking for? And What degree is ideal for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subynut Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Cylinder 1 is the passenger front spark plug. OEM is 8* BTDC, the weber could use more advance around 12*. You can go more depending on your air temps, elevation, and what fuel grade you want to use. I have run upwards of 20* (SPFI timing) a few times, but that needs premium to really use the extra power and it can be difficult to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosen Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Cylinder 1 is the passenger front spark plug. OEM is 8* BTDC, the weber could use more advance around 12*. You can go more depending on your air temps, elevation, and what fuel grade you want to use. I have run upwards of 20* (SPFI timing) a few times, but that needs premium to really use the extra power and it can be difficult to start. where am i pointing the timing gun to check timing degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcox Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 on the fly wheel there are some marks. the fly wheel hole is right where the engine bolts to the transmission. there should be a rubber plug there but if there isnt then oh well, and if there is remove it. hook the timing light up to the #1 spark plug wire, and the other leads to your battery start the car, and and find the marks on your fly wheel that say BDC, TDC, and then other numbers. dont use the marks that are for the cam timming, its pretty obvious with ones are witch. once you have the timing light on those marks set the timing for like 10 or 11 degrees BTDC ( do this by turning the distributor ). oem is eight but that is for emissions bull ************, you should notice better fuel economy, and more power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 on the fly wheel there are some marks. the fly wheel hole is right where the engine bolts to the transmission. there should be a rubber plug there but if there isnt then oh well, and if there is remove it. hook the timing light up to the #1 spark plug wire, and the other leads to your battery start the car, and and find the marks on your fly wheel that say BDC, TDC, and then other numbers. dont use the marks that are for the cam timming, its pretty obvious with ones are witch. once you have the timing light on those marks set the timing for like 10 or 11 degrees BTDC ( do this by turning the distributor ). oem is eight but that is for emissions bull ************, you should notice better fuel economy, and more power! Also use a piece of white chalk to mark the flywheel at 11 BTDC so when the light hits it you can see it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcox Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 you gott it! i used silver sharpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 still haven't figured out how to hook up egr? any help? When i adjusted the advance it didn't seem to make any difference. the sound i am hearing is almost like someone is stick a screwdriver in a tin can and rattling it around? The port on the Weber right above and next to the timing advance port is for egr. The egr and timing advance lines must be routed through the thermo vacuum switch on the manifold next to the thermostat. I have a description of how to do this in my engine writeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 So i was just messing with jetting. I think I am still running rich cause when i start up my car a little fuel drips out the muffler. and my gas mileage is still not great. also another symptom is when i am at idle and then floor the throttle, the car briefly dies then revs up? and sometimes it backfires when i do that? Any ideas. I am basically at minimum main jet sizes. 130 primary 135 secondary. and my air jets are primary 190 and secondary 210. could the dying then revving when i floor it be cause by my idle jets? Hey Moosen, "A final note: Altitude corrections are mostly done with the primary main: one size smaller for every 3000 feet." hth, it's from "The Dime, Quarterly", Datsun Five-Ten Enthusiast publication. It's a tuning guide, Weber DGV to the L series 510 motor. They cover Hitachi DCH 340 in it too. Which really applys to all the Hitachi 2 BBL kin... (and I recommend this guide to a lot of people. IIRC, it was 5$5.00 plus shipping. Not familliar enough with the Weber jetting, they rate the jets different than Hitachi, by flow as well....I've read. Any way, around sea level 115 primary jet, 155 secondary jet would be in a stock Hitachi. A 70 and 100 air bleeds. PS-I've been told, by someone who knows, that a cat will fry JB Weld. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The port on the Weber right above and next to the timing advance port is for egr. The egr and timing advance lines must be routed through the thermo vacuum switch on the manifold next to the thermostat. I have a description of how to do this in my engine writeup.I and many other people have their disty hooked directly from the port on the weber without going through the Thermo switch and they run fine. Every weber on a sube I have ever had was hooked like that with no problems. The EGR may need it but the disty does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I and many other people have their disty hooked directly from the port on the weber without going through the Thermo switch and they run fine. Every weber on a sube I have ever had was hooked like that with no problems. The EGR may need it but the disty does not. Your're right, it will work fine if you let it warm up for 5 or 10 minutes before you drive. The purpose of the thermo-vac switch is to let you get on your journey right away without putting excessive wear on your engine. It just bleeds air into the vacuum advance and egr vac lines to disable them while in a lower temp range. Also, it lets a little extra air into the carb after start so the automatic choke has good mixture. As far as idle RPM, I had mine set up at 900 warm idle so it was a bit less of a transition when you stepped on it. I guess it all depends on your driving conditions. For lots of stop and go and idle time at lights, you might want it lower to save gas; Lots of highway cruising (like in my case) doesn't really require a lot of idle time, so I set it at 900ish. That's why these carbs are fun - personalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I and many other people have their disty hooked directly from the port on the weber without going through the Thermo switch and they run fine. Every weber on a sube I have ever had was hooked like that with no problems. The EGR may need it but the disty does not. Well... I Have my BumbleBeast's Weber Hooked Directly to the Disty's Vacuum Advance, but I've Changed the Dual port one on the Disty, with a Single Port one, as I Wrote before. No Problems with that Setup Neither. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 The distributor advance does need disabling if it's not warm. The engine keeps timing retarded until it is fully warmed up. In a fuel injected vehicle, the knock sensor and cold-run-open-circuit mode helps with this. In a carbed vehicle, the thermo-vac switch helps with this. These engines aren't just designed to do this for lower emissions, they run much better in these modes when tuned properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosen Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) on the fly wheel there are some marks. the fly wheel hole is right where the engine bolts to the transmission. there should be a rubber plug there but if there isnt then oh well, and if there is remove it. hook the timing light up to the #1 spark plug wire, and the other leads to your battery start the car, and and find the marks on your fly wheel that say BDC, TDC, and then other numbers. dont use the marks that are for the cam timming, its pretty obvious with ones are witch. once you have the timing light on those marks set the timing for like 10 or 11 degrees BTDC ( do this by turning the distributor ). oem is eight but that is for emissions bull ************, you should notice better fuel economy, and more power! Cool story. Just ************ing shocked the ************ out of myself because when i undid the distributor bolts, i pulled off one of the spark plug cables and reached down to adjust when the car was running.....Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!! ahahaha But now i am running at 11 degrees advanced sounds smooth. Edited April 17, 2012 by Moosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcox Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 ya what that does for you is create more cylnder pressure and make it easy to burn the fuel and air mixture that enters the cylnder. if you want to mess around with it you could probably continue to advance the timing. just make sure that your not detanating! if you detonate it will eat your head gasket and over heat valves and bad stuff. im not sure what is too much for an ea82 subie, but i know with convetional v-8's you can run 33 to 36,38 degrees BTDC. just listen for a pinging sound like others on this thread have mentioned. im not sure what the out come will be with more timing but i do know that the further you advance it, the more cylinder pressure, the more power, and if you carb is tuned right more efficient. depending on how far you go though it might be slightly damaging to the engine. so play around with it and see what the results are. i know im curious to see how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosen Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 so once i got the timing right the car wouldnt start ahaha. only when the idle mixture was turned 3 turns out. so..... BIGGER JETS! Muahahaha boosted up that secondary air jet so it sucks like a mother when i throttle it. and then bigger main. runs good at 1 1/4 turns out. so it's a little rich. but i am at 6600 ft elevation, and tomorrow i am road tripping at probably around 3500 ft so it should be muy bueno! Yipeee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Sounds about right. 30 degrees sound a bit too high for an EA 82. Its ok to run the idle jet more than 2 turns out. You shouldn't need bigger jets just because you advanced timing. More advance should increase temps as well as low rpm torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcox Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 no! from what it sound like when you changed your timing it was too advanced for the engine to turn over easly and start. instead of making a jet change, make sure that your disty advance is hooked up right. and then see how she runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) +1 ^ I should have been more clear. 3 turns is bad. 2.5 turns is ok. Don't try to up the jet size because its not starting. That's the worst thing to do. Move the timing back slightly until it starts. This is also why its good to have the vacuum-thermo switch hooked up. It ensures no vac advance when cold starting. Also, the more advace, the harder it will start. Find a nice in-between setting. Edited April 18, 2012 by kanurys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcox Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 the factory has the distributor advance hooked up so that when the timing is advanced ( like with your subie ) the intake manifold vacum will retard the timing and thus make it easier for the engine to start. all of what we are telling you will make sense ( if it already doesnt ) by studying the basic physics of an engine. ADVANCED TIMING SENARIO: piston moves up on compression stroke, compressing air and fuel. the spark happens 11 degrees BTDC ( just like your car). the air and fuel combusts, sending the piston down....the motor runs good, makes good cylinder pressure, all is good. WHEN STARTING: the starter does not have the power to compress the air and fuel mixture to ignite it at 11 degrees advanced. so this is where the disty retard comes in. as the engine turns over vacum in the manifold turns the disty counter clockwise retarding the timing, so the timing is now like 9 ish dedgrees BTDC. so engine starts and vacum goes down, and timing returns to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 ...as the engine turns over vacum in the manifold turns the disty counter clockwise retarding the timing, ... so engine starts and vacum goes down, and timing returns to normal... That's interesting info and does make Sense... except for one thing: ...the vacuum-thermo switch hooked up. It ensures no vac advance when cold starting... As far as I Understand, that Vacuum Thermo Switch will block any vacuum from Moving untill it reaches its Operating Temperature, isn't it? So, How could this: the factory has the distributor advance hooked up so that when the timing is advanced ( like with your subie ) the intake manifold vacum will retard the timing and thus make it easier for the engine to start.... Happen with the Vacuum Thermo Switch Between the intake and the Advance at the Distribuitor??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wentz912 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think that what he was trying to say, is that with the lack of vacuum with the car not running IE: while starting, the timing is retarded enough to get going. Then, once the car is running, the intake provides vacuum to the distributor to advance the timing that last little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Nope! ... Read it Again: ...as the engine turns over vacum in the manifold turns the disty counter clockwise retarding the timing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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