danbennett2u Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 My 92 Legacy has 343k miles on it and is feeling pretty tired. Latest problem is on warm starts (after car has been driven, then let sit maybe a half hour or hour) the oil light does not turn off until I rev the engine. If I let it idle it never shuts off (havent idled it more than 20 or 30 seconds for fear of ruining it) If I wait too long before reving it it knocks slightly I assume due to lack of lubrication. This did not gradually happen, started monday and has been happening since. Oil level is ok, and it is fine on cold or hot starts (less than 30 min sit time) SO I have to rev the engine immediately after starting it in order to get some oil pressure. This is not ideal. Is it time for a new oil pump? If so is that hard to replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Time for a new oil pump. It's a timing belt job. But.... with oil pressure that low and the knocking.... your bottom end is likely fried. I would just replace the engine. Not that hard and pretty cheap. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It may be that the backing plate screws on your oil pump have loosened. Unfortunately to get to them you have to go into the front end like a full-on timing belt change. Would also be wise to replace the crank & cam seals while you're in there. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 The rest of the car is not in good enough condition to warrant an engine replacement - and I dont have a place that I can do it myself (no garage, not really allowed to work on our cars in parking spaces but I do anyway). My mpg is down around 21 with mostly highway driving and I have noticed a loss of power over time as well so you are probably right though. Just trying to limp the thing along until I can get a replacement. Guess I will try to find an oil pump used, but for some reason car-part.com shows none in colorado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propane Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Since I’m not too far from your location thought I would speak up, Agree with GD about swapping in a replacement at that mileage and symptom. Since this is a near rust free zone its incredibly easy, craigs list or pull an pay (harder) truck it home- eng hoist etc and its done OOps didnt see the part about no work space-- pull n pay has plenty of stripped down eng to grab a used pump if thats your path. Use their interchange system and prob just about every subaru will fit Edited February 15, 2012 by propane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Oil pressure has to drop to between 2 to 4 psi to make that light stay on. It *should* be up around 20 when hot and should easily be around 40 when cold with thick oil... at idle. I'm afraid it's not long for this world if you are getting a consistent oil pressure light like that. Even if you replace the oil pump - I would give it about 5,000 to 10,000 more miles before a rod comes out the block. I really don't beleive that limping it along will work and the cost in time, labor, and parts to do so will not justify how long it will last. I've been through this exact scenario with an EA81 a few years back. Oil pressure idiot light was flickering at idle. I resealed the pump and the light went out . About 5,000 miles later a rod came out the block . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I should probably clarify... Once I get oil pressure I dont have to continue to rev it to make that light go away, It can idle and it doesnt come back on. I wouldnt say it is constant just at startup. Probably still not worth the effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) correct me if i'm wrong, the 92 has HLAs so they might be oil starved first. that may be the knocking noise. my 95 would make an awful racket when the oil go low. and it is still going strong 40k later. the ej22, 90 - 96, will take a lot of abuse. it does sound like the oil pump, but they don't really fail very often. the screws do loosen on the back side , that's pretty common. but the pump is always submerged in oil, that is the last part to be oil starved. but then again, anything is possible. when was the timing belt last done? how many miles ago? checking or replacing the oil pump isn't hard. you can do it in an afternoon. you can probably do it in the parking lot of the parts store. (you can do it without draining the radiator if you don't remove the water pump. it will puke a little oil when you pull the oil pump.) since you don't want to spend a bunch of money on it, i would remove the oil pump and check it , probably have a used replacement ready if needed. cam and crank seals are readily available at the local parts store IF NEEDED (crank seal will be needed.). if the oil pump repair fixes it, drive it a while to see if anything else fails. do the rest of the timing belt later, that way you save the ~$130 for the kit. if the car is still alive next year, do the belt kit. Edited February 15, 2012 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propane Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 When was the last oil change? Type of filter (and oil 5W20) used? NAPA has silver grade oil filters on sale for 1.99- not that its going fix worn lower end wear.. might bring on end game for eng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Timing belt changed 2 years ago, maybe 40k miles on it. oil last changed about 1000 miles ago. I use rotella 15w40 due to the mileage/wear so fairly thick, oil viscosity should not be the cause of the low pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I should probably clarify...Once I get oil pressure I dont have to continue to rev it to make that light go away, It can idle and it doesnt come back on. I wouldnt say it is constant just at startup. Probably still not worth the effort? Install an oil pressure gauge and get a real reading from the engine. The light only requires >4 psi to shut off. It being off is not a good indication that proper oil pressure has been acheived. It just means it's probably over 4 psi. Anything under about 15 psi at idle when hot is bad. Under 10 is REALLY bad. Especially if measured at the pump. Best place to check the pressure is at the end of the main oil gallery at the rear plug. Should be just about right below the TPS on the top of the block.... New oil pump seals shut off the light on my EA81. Still only lasted 5k before it blew up. But no oil light for that 5k! GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 FSM says 10-12 psi at warm idle is normal. Hook up a gauge in place of the sender and get an actual pressure reading rather than relying on a light. I think it would be worth pulling the oil pump to have a look at the backing plate. In 30 minutes you will know if it's a mechanical failure of the pump or a condition internally that is causing the low pressure reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Unfortunately with 343K miles on you Subie, it is prolly near the end of its engine life. Sorry, it is not what you want to hear, but I think it is true. Imo, I wouldn't put any work into that motor. Yes, I read that you have gone to a thicker oil, 15X40 weight to gain oil pressure. If it were me, I would go to yet thicker oil........... 20WX50W, and or, add some oil thickening additives that you see at auto parts stores that are suppose to lessen oil burning. This approach should give you some added oil pressure, and may by you some more miles with this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 On a real tight budget. I am going to just get a pump from a u pull it junkyard. A gauge would be a good idea but will cost more than just replacing the pump and crossing my fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 On a real tight budget. I am going to just get a pump from a u pull it junkyard. A gauge would be a good idea but will cost more than just replacing the pump and crossing my fingers. Hope the u pull oil pump helps. It is worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Did it start after your oil change? If the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter fails, all the oil drains out of the engine block and down into the pan. When you start it up the pump has to fill all the oil galleries in the engine before it can build pressure. Try changing just the filter. 350k miles is not the end of engine life, nor should thick oil or oil thickeners be used. Thick oil often accelerates bearing wear because it can't wick into tight clearances. The bearings run dry, the clearances open up, and the thick oil can then work. Thick oil will also lower your MPG. Edited February 16, 2012 by WoodsWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Nope it didn't start after any service. Just randomly started happening Monday. Plus if it was filter related I would most likely have the issue with cold startup as well. Iagree that the mileage is not necessarily an indicator of end of life but trust me this one has been feeling well past its prime. The sparkley oil at last oil change is a good indicator too. Imsure the major overheat three months ago was hard on it too. Using 15w40 on a high mileage 20 year old Subaru doesn't hurt it. This isn't a tight tolerence modern wonder that reccomends 0w synthetic. I have been usingit for years and bad MPG has never reared its head like this. I'm pretty sure I'm on borrowed time at this point. If anyone knows of a decent running ej22 second Gen legacy for around 2 grand let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sparkly oil!? Yeah you can stick a fork in that thing, its done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yeah the writing is on the wall. I am replacing the oil pump on Monday, and starting the vehicle hunt now. Hope it stays running long enough that I can replace it and sell it for $500 or so. Not much around denver i can see that is in my price range that I am interested in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You might be able to buy some time with a bottle of Lucas oil stabilizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If the rest of the car works decently well, just throw another engine at it. I'm sure you can get a motor with a lot more life for around $200. It's not really a very hard swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I usually have a pump available here at the shop that has been checked and reassembled. If you need help keeping it on the road or want to sell the car give me a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 c pluged oil fillters from time to time and somtimes colapsed ones to put a manual gauge on it and check the numbers no less than ten psi hot at idle or berring time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I usually have a pump available here at the shop that has been checked and reassembled. If you need help keeping it on the road or want to sell the car give me a call. Shawn I may give you a call tomorrow - number on your homepage right?. U pull yard looks like they charge 15ish bucks for one but have to pay entry, drag my tools down, pull one, etc and condition is unknown. Depending on how much you charge it may be worth it to me to save the time. Yeah considering selling the car but may have to keep it until I can build up enough cash to get a replacement first. Dont have any way to get to work if I sell it first without having another car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 So is there anything special to replacing the oil pump? Is it basically take it off and bolt the new one back up? Do I use RTV or anything like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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