koybern Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I attempted two times to replace rear main seal on my 1997 subary legacy 2.5. First attempt was to seat flush and second attempt was to set in a little hoping it would find less worn shaft to ride on. I am about to attempt 3rd try as I want to get this right. I have noticed the aftermarket seals offers actually slight differences in seal size that contacts the shaft area, albeit less than 1 thousandth difference. Want to know if anyone has noticed this size variance and wether one size is more suitable than the other. I would think smaller would be better with my problem. The oem size is not something i could locate. The other option would be just to use a speedi sleeve but i am just wondering if maybe this difference in seal size is causing the problem. Separator plate is not leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 i only use the brown seal from subaru there are no replacement of equal quality i whould trust i've used some ugly cranks with no leaks ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 They are such a PITA I'd never use anything other than OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koybern Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 ok....i will go to dealer pick up oem and install. I am feeling better about this. I had no problems with aftermarket seals on the rest of this engine. From what i have read, this rear main seal is a bit tricky. I need to know at least the part is going to be reliable and in this case, oem seems to be the answer. By the way, the part is within a few dollars of aftermarket. Its a no brainer. Thanks for the advice. Will let you know how it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I attempted two times to replace rear main seal on my 1997 subary legacy 2.5. First attempt was to seat flush and second attempt was to set in a little hoping it would find less worn shaft to ride on. I am about to attempt 3rd try as I want to get this right. I have noticed the aftermarket seals offers actually slight differences in seal size that contacts the shaft area, albeit less than 1 thousandth difference. Want to know if anyone has noticed this size variance and wether one size is more suitable than the other. I would think smaller would be better with my problem. The oem size is not something i could locate. The other option would be just to use a speedi sleeve but i am just wondering if maybe this difference in seal size is causing the problem. Separator plate is not leaking. I'm going to attempt this copy and paste from RockAuto as I've been wondering what the measurements and differences were myself. These are for the OP's year, vehicle, and engine. Note the different shaft size for the Timken. .040" difference than the other two, with an .011" interference fit, seal to bore. TIMKEN Part # 710235 Shaft Size: 3.386"; Housing Bore: 4.055"; Seal Width: 0.394"; Seal Outside Dia: 4.066"; Seal Lip Material: FluoroElastomer; Housing Material: Steel; Max Temp: 400°F; Min Temp: -40°F; Seal Type: 320; Press Fit Viton; Rear $17.68Add Part NATIONAL Part # 710235 Oil Seal; Silicone Seal, Counter-Clockwise-Spiral Design, Shaft Size=3.346", Housing Bore=4.055, Outer Diameter=4.064, Width=0.315" Rear $20.79Add Part SKF Part # 33861 {Click Info Link for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers2144325000, 2144338010, 5047167AA, 806786010, 806786011, 806786040, MD150161, MD174940, MD359158} Outside diameter=4.0640"; Width=.315"; Shaft=3.346"; Bore=4.055IN Rear (Only 4 Remaining) $24.79Add Part Note the diameter of the seal and the bore size, .009 interference fit seal to bore. OP got me wondering about this again. If going aftermarket a purchaser may have to measure the crank diameter? Here's the link, I read "brown" seal it might be the SKF? http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The SKF looks very much like the Subaru seal. Good chance it's the OE part. I don't know why anyone would pay $25 for it though, its only like $12 at the dealer. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterbang Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I had GD do mine and he used a PVC coupler or end cap against the seal and used a block of wood to hammer on over the coupler. he used redline assembly lube to lightly coat the seal too. hasn't leaked and it's been a year now. I'd ask him what diameter to use but he was very slow and meticulous, lightly tapping it into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koybern Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I stand corrected after viewing the post, the variance is greater than 1 thousandth. This is purely a hobby for me but i would like to point out a correlation to my pharmacy practice. In pharmacy, generic manufacturers are allowed up to 7 percent variance from FDA approved brand name for the majority of drugs. I would think this variance in seal sizes would not be significant..... hopefully an engineer from one of these seal manufacturers will read this and explain in greater detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 from previous attempts do you know for sure it's leaking at the ID or is it the OD? probably ID around the shaft? might want to measure or gauge the crank for wear and make the sleeve decision based on that? i have never used a sleeve but i've seen other folks on the boards do it. i've seen variances in size of the same brand and seal - Fel Pro EA82 crankshaft seal is one. I've used tons of them in the past but had one that would not seat normally as if the OD was too large. i took my time and eventually got it to seat and wedged in there - notably tighter than normal. as you can guess, it ended up leaking. next seal went in just fine. i've used Fel Pro's numerous times in the past without issue though? since then i've used almost exclusively Subaru seals, though i've used Fel Pro's on occasion and still have some in my garage. one bad seal? quality control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Eh, may be Gary. What I'm wondering is why someone hasn't posted a picture using the bolts for the flexplate/flywheel, a spacer, and some kind of device/plate/bar to press these seals in. I've done that on other makes. Even using the old seal flipped around as the "pusher" on the new seal. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Eh, may be Gary. What I'm wondering is why someone hasn't posted a picture using the bolts for the flexplate/flywheel, a spacer, and some kind of device/plate/bar to press these seals in. I've done that on other makes. Even using the old seal flipped around as the "pusher" on the new seal. Doug I agree. But probably because you don't normally mess with these. About the only "maintenance" item that causes more difficulties on a Subaru that it's worth. Infact I'm trying to locate the exact tool you're talking about for old air cooled VW rear main currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 off topic, what do you call the sleeves that fit over the scarred end of a crank providing a new surface for the seal to bear on??? maybe the crank end is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 off topic, what do you call the sleeves that fit over the scarred end of a crank providing a new surface for the seal to bear on??? maybe the crank end is messed up. Speedy Sleeve, Redi Sleeve, MicroSleeve, Quick Sleeve. Claim is they're good for 150,000 miles. I've used them, and they eliminate seal problems. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldersd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I wish I would have read this before I did my separator/o-ring re-seal. I used a OE main seal and was careful about getting it flush, yea, it leaks:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I wish I would have read this before I did my separator/o-ring re-seal. I used a OE main seal and was careful about getting it flush, yea, it leaks:mad: Had you reviewed threads here before you did yours you would have seen where most of highly recommend NOT to replace the rear main. Bummer. And now you can't even tell how deep it should go to seat unless you have another unmolested engine to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldersd Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Had you reviewed threads here before you did yours you would have seen where most of highly recommend NOT to replace the rear main. Bummer. And now you can't even tell how deep it should go to seat unless you have another unmolested engine to look at. I'm going to throw stop leak at it, see if it improves, it's not that much, just after high revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koybern Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 I pulled the engine for last time and realized that the after market seal did hold up after all. I discovered that the valve covers were leaking only after engine was not running and cooled down. I never saw one drop of oil coming out of these valve covers during operation. I think i just got over-anxious becuase of all the concerns raised about installing these rear seals. I would suggest for the do it yourself crowd that this rear seal is not as difficult as some would suggest. The key is to go slow and make sure goes in straight. As far as the valve cover gasket, I found this aftermarket gasket to not work well. I had to put washers on the valve cover bolts in order to snug it down further. It is totally sealing now and I thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattocs Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Which aftermarket valve cover gasket did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koybern Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 It turned out to be the valve covers leaking only when the engine was cooled down....i never saw leaks out of the rear seal after the second repair but I just assumed it to be the causitive factor.....turns out it wasn't...all is fixed now and just for the record...the felpro aftermarket seal is working fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Did you oil the seal and shaft before installing? Putting the seal in dry can cause small rips or tears due to the significant amount of friction between the rubber and the metal. Also be careful what you use to 'push'. The mentioned PVC pipe of appropriate diameter works, or the fat side of a large socket (I think I used the same 22mm I used to push the pilot bearing into place), light taps a millimeter or less at a time all the way around. Each 'around' with the socket should be as even as possible. As you have discovered, these are a p.i.t.a.--take your time and do it well! ETA: I missed the post where you said it was the valve cover, not the rear main. Apologies, and glad it was an easier fix than you thought! That is always a good feeling (even if you did end up pulling the motor. Again.) Edited February 28, 2012 by man on the moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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