Charging issue, warning lights on

[Cougar]

I wonder if you are connecting the wires properly to the regulator. Looking at the schematic drawing that was provided earlier check the connection from the ignition switch, which is shown above the battery, and make sure it is going to the proper terminal of the regulator. Does the battery warning light stay on when the ignition switch is OFF? If it does then either the connections are wrong or the ignition switch is bad. Make sure the ignition switch isn't causing the trouble also. I doubt it is causing this trouble but it is possible it imay not be disconnecting power when it is in the OFF position.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Cougar

[raymond338]

So I looked deeper into the VR's today.

 

They each contain two contactors inside.

 

One contactor is in the down position when the key is turned so that the warning lights are on. When the car is started (and some voltage/signal is received) this contactor moves into the up position and the lights go out.

 

When the key is turned off, this contactor SHOULD go back to the down position. Or in my case, with the key off and engine still running I can push the contactor down and the engine will cut off.

 

THe other contactor controls the voltage. The old/original regulator does manage to allow 14 volts out of the alt when the engine is revved up after first cranking it up. After driving 60 miles, it is only putting out 12 volts.

 

Since the one contactor controls the warning lights and the engine cutting off, all of the new VR I have had have a problem in the same 'circuit'.

 

The old/original one does not have this problem.

 

I need to understand how the contactors actuate better. For instance, perhaps my old VR is working in this circuit because it is weak allowing a weak signal to actuate it. Whereas the new ones are not working because they cannot actuate under the weak signal.

 

I drove to work today with the old VR. It was putting out fine when I left my house, 14.4 volts under revved conditions. By the time I got to work it was putting out 12.3.

 

Since I was driving home in the dark, I put the new VR in forthe ride home. I figured I'd just unplug it to turn off the car. Upon arriving at my house, the keyswitch failed to turn off the car (as expected). When I went to unplug the connection, I heard the contactor click and the car shut off, without actually disconnecting anything.

 

The VR is loose. I didn't even bother to try and tighten it since the bolts won't tighten anyway. So I don't know if it was the light tap as I reached my hand past it and grabbed the plug or possibly a broken/weak wire leading up to the plug. Those are just my first thoughts. It is too dark to bother with now.

 

I will continue to carry an extra battery; I may have to go buy a trickle charger. My methods may seem slow and tedious, but I'm working within the constraints I exist in.

 

Plus the longer I let it go, the more likely something is going to break completely, which will make it easier to diagnose, IMO.

[raymond338]

I wonder if you are connecting the wires properly to the regulator. Looking at the schematic drawing that was provided earlier check the connection from the ignition switch, which is shown above the battery, and make sure it is going to the proper terminal of the regulator. Does the battery warning light stay on when the ignition switch is OFF? If it does then either the connections are wrong or the ignition switch is bad. Make sure the ignition switch isn't causing the trouble also. I doubt it is causing this trouble but it is possible it imay not be disconnecting power when it is in the OFF position.

 

With the old regulator in place, disconnecting the ignition switch kills the engine. With the new one in place, disconnecting the ignition switch does not kill the engine. I have not actually checked to wire for wire if the two plugs are correct, but they are designed to only go together one way. The warning light does not stay on when the ignition is off.

[raymond338]

Sounds like 3 flakey regulators,all w/different failure modes.

The OEM reg. was electromechanical w/contact points etc.Replacement ones should be solid state(hopefully).Seems like your replacements might have been old electromechanical regs. w/faulty contacts.

 

OEM electromechanical regs. require periodic adjustment of the air gaps etc.Perhaps your original one would work after adjustment.

I`d prefer a solid state version though.

 

 

I have not been offered a solid state VR by any local parts store. The new ones are the same style as the original hitachi that my car had in it. Except they seem put together a little cheaper (I opened the new VR, it is definitely not adjustable, it is all rivets, not a single screw).

 

I took my original VR apart today as well. I only see one screw that appears that it may be adjustable, and it is on the contactor that controls the voltage. I'll try and get a picture of it to show you what I mean, rather than try and describe it. The other screws may also allow for adjustment, just in a way I didn't recognize; closer inspection on my part will be required.

 

It appears that the new ones are all failing in the contactor that controls the lights and the car shutting off. From what I observed today, I believe those two issues are tied into one contactor.

Edited March 6, 2012 by raymond338
for clarity

[naru]

I have not been offered a solid state VR by any local parts store. The new ones are the same style as the original hitachi that my car had in it. Except they seem put together a little cheaper (I opened the new VR, it is definitely not adjustable, it is all rivets, not a single screw).

 

I took my original VR apart today as well. I only see one screw that appears that it may be adjustable, and it is on the contactor that controls the voltage. I'll try and get a picture of it to show you what I mean, rather than try and describe it. The other screws may also allow for adjustment, just in a way I didn't recognize; closer inspection on my part will be required.

 

It appears that the new ones are all failing in the contactor that controls the lights and the car shutting off. From what I observed today, I believe those two issues are tied into one contactor.

 

http://vintagetest.net/chassis/elis81/V2I813010.pdf

[Cougar]

In order to rule out a bad ground I suggest you connect up a jumper wire to the case of the regulator and a good ground point to the chassis of the car to see if that fixes the trouble. If that doesn't help then we need to check other things. I recommend you don't make any adjustments to the regulator screws, at this point at least. They should be set to the correct voltage settings already.

[gbrand]

Hi, went through similar issues with my old 80 1600 wagon. Keep the VR that will operate normally, but also look at the 2 pin connector on the alter nator-has 2 blades at 90 degrees to each other-it would get loose and warning lights would come on and quit charging......cleaniing/bending connectors would help, but finally found a plug of the same size out of an old computer I junked, and spliced it in....problem gone.

 

Also, surprises me a little car will run very long when warning lights came on.....they used that output from the voltage reg to poower the fuel pump, and if the alt quit the fuel pump will quit-can make for some bizzare runability problems I documented in an old post.

 

good luck, andlet us know what you figure out.

[raymond338]

Okay, here is where I am at...

 

I've had a jumper ground wire attached since the last time I posted.

 

I had to meet a guy early the next morning, so i drove out to my buddy's place in the country about 5 am. Car is running fine, but of course it didn't shut off when I got there.

 

Since the previous time I didn't actually have to disconnect any wires to get the car to shut off, I tried a different tactic this time. I turned the key switch off (car still running) and then tapped the VR very hard twice. The car shut off.

 

So a sticky contactor, I'm thinking. From sitting on the shelf too long perhaps.

 

I was meeting a guy who was going to transport a 98 Outback motor to Kentucky, so I drove down to the end of the driveway to meet him, cuz you can't see my friend's house from the road.

At the end of the driveway, i cut the keyswitch off and the car actually shut off!

 

It has not given me any problems since. Apparently it just needed a rap on the head.

 

I took a brief look just now at the info in the link you posted, naru. The screw I suspected of being the adjuster is indeed so. I think I will try and get the old VR working properly. The new one is not adjustable and I'd like to understand how they operate so that in the future I will not be lost and confused by such problems as this.

 

Sorry about the delay in the conclusion. The day after the car began running properly my brakes began squealing terribly. So I got everything together and replaced the front pads. I have never done a brake job with the calipers that have to be turned in rather than pressed back down. I didn't even know they were made that way that long ago (I thought it was a newer idea). So that was another little adventure in Subaru-dom.

 

So now I've just got to replace that rear strut. And I'm sure something else will go wrong, but that will just keep me paying attention...

[Cougar]

I doubt the relay contacts stuck together due to the time the VR sat on the shelf but the contacts may have become pitted when they made connection for the first time under load and so stuck together. You will most likely be ok from now on.

 

The factory page info in post 13 gives a good explination of how the regulator works.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Cougar